MMA Off-Topic

[DJ]

Re: OS MMA Random Thread

So are any of those performance enhancing? I assume they are if they are tested for.

Anti-anxiety would be considered a performance enhancing drug, I'd think.

[Gotmadskillzson]

Re: OS MMA Random Thread

The Ultimate Fighting Championship will take significant steps to implement a more stringent drug-testing program later this year.

During a press conference in Las Vegas on Wednesday, UFC CEO Lorenzo Fertitta, President Dana White and Chief Operating Officer Lawrence Epstein laid out a plan that will officially take effect on July 1. At that time, all fighters on the UFC roster -- approximately 585 total, according to the promotion -- will be subject to testing by an independent third party using World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) testing standards.

The UFC is currently in discussions with several drug testing organizations in order to establish random drug testing protocol by that date. Exactly which third-party organization the promotion will partner with has yet to be determined, and Fertitta was unable to reveal any of the candidates due to confidentiality agreements.

Fighters competing in championship and headlining bouts will be subject to even greater scrutiny, as they will all be subjected to enhanced out-of-competition testing beginning in July.

“The UFC will immediately advocate to all commissions to test every fighter in-competition on every card,” Fertitta said. “We want 100 percent of the fighters tested the night they compete in competition. And if there’s additional costs associated with that outside of any state or federation’s budget, we will pay for any additional cost required.”

The Las Vegas-based promotion is prepared to commit “several million dollars” to in- and out-of-competition as well as random performance-enhancing testing on a yearly basis. That is a significant increase from 2013-14, when UFC spent approximately $500,000 on testing expenses.

The UFC will also encourage the various athletic commissions to institute longer suspensions and harsher penalties for those fighters who fail drug tests. Most notably, Fertitta mentioned that he would support the WADA standard of a two-year or possibly a four-year ban for a first-time offender.

http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/UFC...ve-Tests-82013

[p_rushing]

Re: OS MMA Random Thread

Man they really stepped up there. I didn't think it was possible that they would do the worldwide full roster testing. Plus the 2 or 4 year bans should stop the top level fighters from using immediately. The younger fringe guys may risk it to make it in the UFC and the older guys may try to stay there, but if they get caught, it could end their careers.

[allBthere]

Re: OS MMA Random Thread

I'm not saying GSP is doping. I'm saying we cant assume he's not doping just because he's outspoken against doping. Silva was too and now he failed two drug tests.

The problem with perma-banning is that its business suicide for the UFC. Take your Jones example. Lets say Jones gets popped for Testosterone. NSAC gives him 1 yr but because the UFC has a Zero Tolerance policy they cut him.

Jones immediately signs a big money deal with Bellator and fights for them a year later. So now the UFC has lost the P4P best fighter in the world and practically handed them to his rival. And because of that Zero Tolerance policy, they can never sign him back. People underestimate how quickly a Bellator could become a serious rival if it got the right talent.

Also, I've never seen the UFC be "hard on fringe fighters but let the money makers hang around". One, the money-makers are tested harder than the lower card fighters. NSAC and other commissions dont do random tests on lower card fighters because it costs a lot of money to random test a whole card.

Two, with the exception of select international cards, the UFC doesnt hand out suspensions. They rely on the commissions for that. Also in those international cards, they've done a pretty good job (with the exception of the Le case) of testing and suspending fighters. Le, Bigfoot Silva and Chris Leben are just a few guys who main evented fights and were caught by the UFCs testers.

As for me, I dont think its as simple as for lifetime bans or for doping. There are tons of fighters who are outright cheating but there are some guys who take supplements and dont realize that the supplement contains a banned substance. For a first offense, I would prefer a complete forfeiture of your purse (Show/Win/Bonus), a year suspension and a significant fine. The prospect of being broke for over a year would scare many fighters straight.
For a second offense, we go two years. For a third offense, its a lifetime ban.

Whats funny is that even without those tweaks MMA/Boxing has one of the most stringent punishment scales when it comes to PEDs. With baseball, you only lose a third of a season for a first time PED offense. With the NFL, its a 1/4th. With Basketball, its a fourth. In MMA, you will lose 9 mos to a year.

looks like the UFC split our suggestions down the middle and that's probably best.

1st time is a potential career threat - 2nd time would most likely be an ender.

I agree with that. I think 3 strikes is too many because you're allowing someone to use anabolic steroids 3 times in competition (when they are caught) which is too much given it's a combat sport.

Mine 1 and done may be too strong but only because of the reason you mentioned about accidental supplements etc ... but even then you could allow for a tiered system where a steroid is not classed the same as anti-anxiety medication or a nutritional supplement or cold/flu over the counter medication.

I like this move and I think anyone caught now will look more like a coward/outsider than ever.

The challenge the UFC has and is well aware of, is the various commissions to essentially agree with UFC policy so that the fighters can't do what you suggested and immediately fight in another league.

But I'm interested what you think about that situation as well - because for me if someone is caught twice for steriods in the UFC, would I be interested in watching them fight elsewhere? probably not, maybe if I was aware both guys were juicing and think of it as a steroid-supported league where everyone is jacked up? I don't necessarily think it's business suicide for the UFC, although I do think it will hurt short-term, I think the fighters getting caught it's a form of career suicide for them too.

If Mark McGuire was kicked from the MLB in 1998 would you have watched him play in a startup league with other guys who were caught juicing? I doubt it. I realize it's not apples to apples, but there is a stigma to athletes who cheat and it stays with them and is extremely hard to overcome, sometimes impossible. PR will play a huge factor in all of these cases, so in a way the UFC needs to ruin reputations when they kick people out so that they don't hang on to any credibility perhaps...

[aholbert32]

Re: OS MMA Random Thread

looks like the UFC split our suggestions down the middle and that's probably best.

1st time is a potential career threat - 2nd time would most likely be an ender.

I agree with that. I think 3 strikes is too many because you're allowing someone to use anabolic steroids 3 times in competition (when they are caught) which is too much given it's a combat sport.

Mine 1 and done may be too strong but only because of the reason you mentioned about accidental supplements etc ... but even then you could allow for a tiered system where a steroid is not classed the same as anti-anxiety medication or a nutritional supplement or cold/flu over the counter medication.

I like this move and I think anyone caught now will look more like a coward/outsider than ever.

The challenge the UFC has and is well aware of, is the various commissions to essentially agree with UFC policy so that the fighters can't do what you suggested and immediately fight in another league.

But I'm interested what you think about that situation as well - because for me if someone is caught twice for steriods in the UFC, would I be interested in watching them fight elsewhere? probably not, maybe if I was aware both guys were juicing and think of it as a steroid-supported league where everyone is jacked up? I don't necessarily think it's business suicide for the UFC, although I do think it will hurt short-term, I think the fighters getting caught it's a form of career suicide for them too.

If Mark McGuire was kicked from the MLB in 1998 would you have watched him play in a startup league with other guys who were caught juicing? I doubt it. I realize it's not apples to apples, but there is a stigma to athletes who cheat and it stays with them and is extremely hard to overcome, sometimes impossible. PR will play a huge factor in all of these cases, so in a way the UFC needs to ruin reputations when they kick people out so that they don't hang on to any credibility perhaps...

Lets use Jones as an example. Lets say Jones got popped 5 years ago for steroids because of a supplement when he first started with the UFC. Now lets say he gets popped in May for using a diuretic (also considered a PED under VADA) while trying to cut weight. Now under a zero tolerance policy, the UFC would have to terminate his contract.

Now Jones signs with Bellator a year later. You wouldnt be interested in seeing him fight King Mo for free on Spike? I know I would. I also would hate that someone as talented as Jones is unable to fight the best fighters in the world. Zero tolerance would hurt not only Jones but the UFC and the fans. The pound for pound best fighter in the world wouldnt be able to fight in the best league.

After watching the press conference yesterday, I'm in favor of 2 yrs for the first offense and four for the second.

[nate1986]

Re: OS MMA Random Thread

UFC should send out papers outlining what substances are banned and what supplements might contain said substance or substances, i think that could weed out who is knowingly doing PEDs and not giving a damn otherwise

[ubernoob]

Re: OS MMA Random Thread

UFC should send out papers outlining what substances are banned and what supplements might contain said substance or substances, i think that could weed out who is knowingly doing PEDs and not giving a damn otherwise

Anyone that gets busted (and those taking and that don't get busted) is knowingly doing so and not giving a damn. That goes for any sport.

If you're an athlete whose livelihood depends on knowing what you put in your body (and don't even try to play the "they didn't know" - if they can micromanage a diet, they know) you should give a **** and know damn well what you're taking. That's a given.

[DJ]

Re: OS MMA Random Thread

The stricter testing could lead to fewer injuries, too. I don't think it's a coincidence the rash of injuries the past 2-3 years and the increase in number of guys getting busted for PED's.

[nate1986]

Re: OS MMA Random Thread

Anyone that gets busted (and those taking and that don't get busted) is knowingly doing so and not giving a damn. That goes for any sport.

If you're an athlete whose livelihood depends on knowing what you put in your body (and don't even try to play the "they didn't know" - if they can micromanage a diet, they know) you should give a **** and know damn well what you're taking. That's a given.

I'm not making excuses for anyone who gets popped for PEDs, just saying UFC should provide a list of substances that are banned

i do agree the injuries and people who have gotten popped over the last couple years are linked, I'll put this out there if UFC is gonna do their own testing alongside the state athletic commissions lets say on the same card a main eventer like Conor McGregor gets popped by UFC and an unknown gets popped before the event will both fighters receive equal treatment for punishments or will that prospect get screwed over and not allowed to fight and sweep Conor's test under the rug

[aholbert32]

Re: OS MMA Random Thread

I'm not making excuses for anyone who gets popped for PEDs, just saying UFC should provide a list of substances that are banned

i do agree the injuries and people who have gotten popped over the last couple years are linked, I'll put this out there if UFC is gonna do their own testing alongside the state athletic commissions lets say on the same card a main eventer like Conor McGregor gets popped by UFC and an unknown gets popped before the event will both fighters receive equal treatment for punishments or will that prospect get screwed over and not allowed to fight and sweep Conor's test under the rug

Punishments never are affected by fame. They've handed out equal sentences to Stars and new fighters.


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[p_rushing]

Re: OS MMA Random Thread

Punishments never are affected by fame. They've handed out equal sentences to Stars and new fighters.


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The only difference I see is the unknown prospect won't get another chance while the top fighter probably will

[aholbert32]

Re: OS MMA Random Thread

The only difference I see is the unknown prospect won't get another chance while the top fighter probably will

I dont think thats true either. There have been a few lower level guys get popped and they are still under UFC contracts. Robert Drysdale and Kevin Casey are some recent ones to name a few. It does nothing for the UFC to cut young talent after one failed test. Now if its there 2nd or 3rd, they might cut them.

[nate1986]

Re: OS MMA Random Thread

i think UFC needs to include weed, cocaine, heroin and so forth in their program

[ERA]

Re: OS MMA Random Thread

i think UFC needs to include weed, cocaine, heroin and so forth in their program

Weed? No. I don't smoke weed but I still see nothing wrong with it. There is really nothing bad or performance enhancing about it. Cocaine and heroin should be checked though, for obvious reasons.

[aholbert32]

Re: OS MMA Random Thread

i think UFC needs to include weed, cocaine, heroin and so forth in their program

Are we talking about out of comp testing? If that's the case, I say no. I honestly don't give a crap if a fighter does coke or smokes weed as long as it's not in his system during the fight.


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