UFC 106: Forrest vs Tito

[DTX3]

UFC 106
November 21st 2009
Mandalay Bay Events Center

Announced fights:

Heavyweight Championship bout: Brock Lesnar (c) vs. Shane Carwin
Light Heavyweight bout: Mark Coleman vs. Tito Ortiz
Welterweight bout: Jon Fitch vs. Ricardo Almeida
Lightweight bout: Kenny Florian vs. Clay Guida
Welterweight bout: Karo Parisyan vs. Dustin Hazelett

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[aholbert32]

re: UFC 106: Forrest vs Tito

Cain kind of gets screwed here. Who does he face now? Mir and Kongo are scheduled for later this year. CroCop is booked. Maybe he fights Herring now.

Cain went from being 1 fight away from a title shot to probably 2 or 3. Especially if Couture wins next week.

[MC Fatigue]

re: UFC 106: Forrest vs Tito

Makes sense to me. Carwin vs V. never made sense to me in the first place; if the guy couldn't finish a guy like Kongo on the ground, and was getting demolishing standing with him - what could he possibly have done with Carwin? I didn't really see the point, since Cain wasn't really all that good looking against Kongo.

[DTX3]

re: UFC 106: Forrest vs Tito

Cain kind of gets screwed here. Who does he face now? Mir and Kongo are scheduled for later this year. CroCop is booked. Maybe he fights Herring now.

Cain went from being 1 fight away from a title shot to probably 2 or 3. Especially if Couture wins next week.

I still think Cain is 1 win away from a title shot. No way does Couture deserve a title shot with a win against Nog.

[Wet Bandit]

re: UFC 106: Forrest vs Tito

Makes sense to me. Carwin vs V. never made sense to me in the first place; if the guy couldn't finish a guy like Kongo on the ground, and was getting demolishing standing with him - what could he possibly have done with Carwin? I didn't really see the point, since Cain wasn't really all that good looking against Kongo.

And Carwin looked good against Gonzaga? He got rocked right away, got taken down and put on his back, and won the fight by connecting against a guy with a notoriously suspect chin.

I'm not saying Cain's last fight was much better, but at least he showed something during that fight. He showed he has an incredible chin, considering he took 3 or 4 clean shots from a powerful striker and didn't really get phased. And he showed his excellent wrestling. Granted, it's not tough to out-wrestle Kongo, but he didn't simply out-wrestle him, he destroyed him on the ground. And sure Cain didn't finish him, but if it wasn't obvious already, Lesnar/Herring should have showed us that it's tough to finish a tough guy that's determined to turtle up.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Cain walks through Carwin or anything. I just don't understand how the Carwin mystique has taken off these past couple months. People have been acting like Cain was merely a speedbump for him. But what's Carwin got for Cain? He's got power in his striking, but more power than Kongo? If Cain could eat all of Kongo's power directly on his chin, what would Carwin have done?

And Carwin's got about 15 pounds on Cain, but Cain was a 2-time All-American at Arizona State, a great Division 1 wrestling school. Carwin wrestled at freaking Western State College.

I think that fight would still have been very much of a toss-up. There was a good chance Carwin could have out-struck Cain or used his size to out-wrestle him, but I think there's also a good chance Cain could have caught Carwin with some of his own power (after all, Gonzaga rocked Carwin with punches) or used his better technical wrestling to negate Carwin's size advantage and out-wrestled him.

[aholbert32]

re: UFC 106: Forrest vs Tito

I still think Cain is 1 win away from a title shot. No way does Couture deserve a title shot with a win against Nog.

Whats a bigger PPV draw? Coulture v. Lesner or Cain vs Lesner?

[Wet Bandit]

re: UFC 106: Forrest vs Tito

I still think Cain is 1 win away from a title shot. No way does Couture deserve a title shot with a win against Nog.

I think it depends on how well Couture does. If he walks through Big Nog, I think it's totally justified giving Couture a title shot, considering he did relatively well against Lesnar in their first fight and he's still a very good draw who's only got a couple opportunities for big fights left in him.

But I doubt that Couture walks through Big Nog, so yeah, Cain's probably still one fight away from a title shot. And instead of having to beat Carwin for it, now he's only gotta beat someone like Heath Herring for it.

At worst, he's two fights away from a title fight, but I don't think that's any different than it was before. If Couture showed well against Big Nog, I think he would have gotten a title shot before the winner of Cain/Carwin would have.

[DTX3]

re: UFC 106: Forrest vs Tito

Whats a bigger PPV draw? Coulture v. Lesner or Cain vs Lesner?

There's no doubt that Couture vs Lensar is a bigger draw, but that's no reason to give Randy the title shot when you clearly have a fighter in Cain who deserves it more(with a win).

I think it depends on how well Couture does. If he walks through Big Nog, I think it's totally justified giving Couture a title shot, considering he did relatively well against Lesnar in their first fight and he's still a very good draw who's only got a couple opportunities for big fights left in him.

But I doubt that Couture walks through Big Nog, so yeah, Cain's probably still one fight away from a title shot. And instead of having to beat Carwin for it, now he's only gotta beat someone like Heath Herring for it.

At worst, he's two fights away from a title fight, but I don't think that's any different than it was before. If Couture showed well against Big Nog, I think he would have gotten a title shot before the winner of Cain/Carwin would have.

See, even if Randy walks through Nog I still don't think he deserves a shot(just yet), just my opinion. I would like to see the winner of this fight take on Cain(if he wins his next fight) to determine the #1 contender. I don't see that happening though. Also, just imo, I don't see Randy walking through Big Nog next week.

Now that I think of it, the HW division isn't all that great in the UFC.

[Wet Bandit]

re: UFC 106: Forrest vs Tito

Whats a bigger PPV draw? Coulture v. Lesner or Cain vs Lesner?

I actually think there's a lot of sense in giving Couture the next title shot after Carwin, even if he just barely pulls out a split decision over Big Nog. Lesnar/Couture would obviously do great business, plus they could feed Cain two fights against guys like maybe Herring and Hardonk. That would give the UFC two more PPVs to start hyping up Cain, and assuming he wins both of those, which he should, that would put him in line for a title shot probably not August or so.

And that would give the UFC a year to put together their first show in Mexico City, headlined by Lesnar/Velasquez. They could put Diego Sanchez on the card (possibly in a co-main event, considering it's in the realm of possibility that he could be lightweight champ by that time). Efrain Escudero would of course be on the card, and they could even put on a couple fights including Leonard Garcia and Miguel Torres to give the WEC some more exposure (assuming it hasn't been folded into the UFC already by that time).

A Mexico City card like that could be huge. Set the ticket prices a little lower, hold the event somewhere large, and market the hell out of it, and I think it could even set a North American attendance record for MMA.

Granted, some things have to come together to make that a reality, but the UFC would be smart to start taking steps in that direction in case everything does fall into place. And keeping Cain away from Carwin right now is a good start.

[goh]

re: UFC 106: Forrest vs Tito

Randy only has 2 fights left doesn't he? Why would he get a shot in his last fight? So he can take off with the belt again if he wins? Not that he would against Brock.

I was looking forward to Cain/Carwin so am slightly disapointed but Carwin/Brock should be a pretty solid wrestling match.

[DTX3]

re: UFC 106: Forrest vs Tito

I actually think there's a lot of sense in giving Couture the next title shot after Carwin, even if he just barely pulls out a split decision over Big Nog. Lesnar/Couture would obviously do great business, plus they could feed Cain two fights against guys like maybe Herring and Hardonk. That would give the UFC two more PPVs to start hyping up Cain, and assuming he wins both of those, which he should, that would put him in line for a title shot probably not August or so.

And that would give the UFC a year to put together their first show in Mexico City, headlined by Lesnar/Velasquez. They could put Diego Sanchez on the card (possibly in a co-main event, considering it's in the realm of possibility that he could be lightweight champ by that time). Efrain Escudero would of course be on the card, and they could even put on a couple fights including Leonard Garcia and Miguel Torres to give the WEC some more exposure (assuming it hasn't been folded into the UFC already by that time).

A Mexico City card like that could be huge. Set the ticket prices a little lower, hold the event somewhere large, and market the hell out of it, and I think it could even set a North American attendance record for MMA.

Granted, some things have to come together to make that a reality, but the UFC would be smart to start taking steps in that direction in case everything does fall into place. And keeping Cain away from Carwin right now is a good start.

That's an awesome idea. I'd be pissed if Couture got his rematch with a split decision win though.

[DTX3]

re: UFC 106: Forrest vs Tito

This just came to me, would Dana really want to risk giving Randy a shot at the title with him being in the new EA MMA game?

[aholbert32]

re: UFC 106: Forrest vs Tito

Randy only has 2 fights left doesn't he? Why would he get a shot in his last fight? So he can take off with the belt again if he wins? Not that he would against Brock.

I was looking forward to Cain/Carwin so am slightly disapointed but Carwin/Brock should be a pretty solid wrestling match.

I dont think they would give Randy a shot unless he signed a new deal. Also, i think they have a "champions clause" in their contracts that prevents a champion from fighting any where else if he is the current champion.

[Wet Bandit]

re: UFC 106: Forrest vs Tito

Now that I think of it, the HW division isn't all that great in the UFC.

Really? Look at the list of guys either ready for a title shot or one fight away from a title shot: Carwin, Cain, Couture, Big Nog, Mir, dos Santos. That's a pretty solid list. And that doesn't include Crocop, who's probably two wins away, or guys like Gonzaga and Kongo who would be title contenders if they didn't have to face serious competition on their way up the ladder (aka The Brett Rogers Route).

[DTX3]

re: UFC 106: Forrest vs Tito

Really? Look at the list of guys either ready for a title shot or one fight away from a title shot: Carwin, Cain, Couture, Big Nog, Mir, dos Santos. That's a pretty solid list. And that doesn't include Crocop, who's probably two wins away, or guys like Gonzaga and Kongo who would be title contenders if they didn't have to face serious competition on their way up the ladder (aka The Brett Rogers Route).

I completely forgot about dos Santos, isn't he fighting CroCop? IMO Kongo will never be a contender until he develops some sort of wrestling ability. He's one loss away(Frank Mir) from being just another run-through fighter imo. I heard Lil' Nog is making his way to the UFC, so that would be interesting if he moves up weight. The brightest of that list are obviously Cain Velasquez and Junior dos Santos. Brock is going to kill Shane Carwin.