UFC on Versus - Vera vs Jones

[jeremym480]

Re: UFC on Versus - Vera vs Jones

What? Rampage has lost once since 05 and that was a controversial decision to Forrest. Most former UFC champs get a rematch after 2 wins. If he beats Evans, thats 3 wins in a row w/o a shot. His last 3 wins (Silva, Jardine and Evans) would be bigger wins than anyone Jones has beat. You dont give title shots based on whether you think the challenger can beat the champ. You get title shots if the challenger proves he's deserving of it by beating top competition. With a win over Evans, Rampage proves that.

People do this everytime after someone has a win and its happening again. The Vera win was impressive but lets get real. Other than his win over Mir years ago, his most impressive win was against Kristof Soszynski. He wasnt a top 5 LHW and was barely a top 10 one.

If I'm Ramp and the UFC doesnt give me a title shot after beating Evans, I'm retiring because thats politics keeping him from a shot. Let Jones beat a top 10 guy like a Griffin, Little Nog or Cane before we give him a shot against Machida.

Right on. I couldn't have said it better myself.

[jmood88]

Re: UFC on Versus - Vera vs Jones

I'm really mad that I couldn't watch the fight but I'm glad that Bones got the win. Hopefully he starts getting some attention and gets better fights.

[sven]

Re: UFC on Versus - Vera vs Jones

Well Kongo isn't a stand up fighter, really - so it's not surprising to see him go for the take down.

He's a ground and pound fighter. He strikes until he can close the distance, then he grapples and takes his opponent down and grounds and pounds. The UFC markets him as a big stand up guy, but he's not.

I wasn't the least bit surprised by it.

He IS a stand up fighter though. He's just not smart enough to realize it.

[allBthere]

Re: UFC on Versus - Vera vs Jones

What? Rampage has lost once since 05 and that was a controversial decision to Forrest. Most former UFC champs get a rematch after 2 wins. If he beats Evans, thats 3 wins in a row w/o a shot. His last 3 wins (Silva, Jardine and Evans) would be bigger wins than anyone Jones has beat. You dont give title shots based on whether you think the challenger can beat the champ. You get title shots if the challenger proves he's deserving of it by beating top competition. With a win over Evans, Rampage proves that.

People do this everytime after someone has a win and its happening again. The Vera win was impressive but lets get real. Other than his win over Mir years ago, his most impressive win was against Kristof Soszynski. He wasnt a top 5 LHW and was barely a top 10 one.

If I'm Ramp and the UFC doesnt give me a title shot after beating Evans, I'm retiring because thats politics keeping him from a shot. Let Jones beat a top 10 guy like a Griffin, Little Nog or Cane before we give him a shot against Machida.

what about his movie crap though? He's not reliable - who's to say he wouldn't just do that again and BAIL on a MAJOR rivalry in his HOME town? How do you deal with someone like that? You also didn't comment on the prospect of a title bout rubber match and how that might affect rampage/rashad etc...i'd be interested to know if you think that's an option should Rua win.

Griffin is not top 10 imo. I think Vera would beat him pretty bad - I understand the disappointment surrounding Vera and why people say he's overrated, but I don't think he is. He looked to me like he wanted to stand and bang and Jones took him down even though he said he'd trade with him all day. I think that says alot about Vera's standup knowing how dynamic jones's is.

Luiz Cane is 3-2 in the UFC and beat nobody. Jones is already above him with his 4-1 record (and the 1 being a fight he really won big time against matt h) So really he can be thought of as 5-0 against tough competition. If it's really out of the question, than one more win puts him right there which actually shows how close he already is. IMO the most fights he gets before a shot is 2 more. If he wins his next 2 fights, there is no way I see he has a 3rd which isn't a title shot. In my mind though, I dont think it's that crazy if he got one before that.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: UFC on Versus - Vera vs Jones

Never understood the hype with Vera.

You're not alone.

He beat Mir. Looked pretty good against an old Randy.. but yeah.. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the beginning of the end as far as Vera ever becoming "anything".

I see Jon Jones' skill set.. and I like what I see.. but like I said, the hype seems out of hand.

[CYST2000]

Re: UFC on Versus - Vera vs Jones

Well Kongo isn't a stand up fighter, really - so it's not surprising to see him go for the take down.

He's a ground and pound fighter. He strikes until he can close the distance, then he grapples and takes his opponent down and grounds and pounds. The UFC markets him as a big stand up guy, but he's not.

Kickboxing/Muay Thai are his no.1 and ground and pound/wrestling is his no.2. He's never really demonstrated a really good stand up game, even if it was supposed to be his main strength. I think he still has some of the most vicious legs in the business, but he doesn't use them as much as he should. I think with more work on wrestling and a little less work on stand up he could make ground and pound/wrestling no.1 and kickboxing/Muay Thai no.2. As he proved in this last fight.

Also, I to believe he has a problem with getting hit in the face, but who likes a knuckle sandwich when the idea of a fight is to defend shots while still connecting on as many as you can.

[sven]

Re: UFC on Versus - Vera vs Jones

You're not alone.

He beat Mir. Looked pretty good against an old Randy.. but yeah.. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the beginning of the end as far as Vera ever becoming "anything".

I see Jon Jones' skill set.. and I like what I see.. but like I said, the hype seems out of hand.

The hype came from the fact that he was a D1 caliber wrestler who was training under one of the best kickboxers one the planet and beating up guys twice his size. Thinking was that if he started fighting guys his own size that he'd be a lot better.

Obviously that has not been the case.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: UFC on Versus - Vera vs Jones

I dunno, every time I've seen Vera fight, nothing jumps out at me. That's why when they announced a Vera/Couture 105 main event.. I was like

Vera never struck me as a main event act.

[MC Fatigue]

Re: UFC on Versus - Vera vs Jones

Kickboxing/Muay Thai are his no.1 and ground and pound/wrestling is his no.2. He's never really demonstrated a really good stand up game, even if it was supposed to be his main strength. I think he still has some of the most vicious legs in the business, but he doesn't use them as much as he should. I think with more work on wrestling and a little less work on stand up he could make ground and pound/wrestling no.1 and kickboxing/Muay Thai no.2. As he proved in this last fight.

Also, I to believe he has a problem with getting hit in the face, but who likes a knuckle sandwich when the idea of a fight is to defend shots while still connecting on as many as you can.

They may be his #1 skill - but his style is still Ground and Pound. He takes people down and beats on them. That's how he fights, yet they still market him as a stand up fighter.

[aholbert32]

Re: UFC on Versus - Vera vs Jones

what about his movie crap though? He's not reliable - who's to say he wouldn't just do that again and BAIL on a MAJOR rivalry in his HOME town? How do you deal with someone like that? You also didn't comment on the prospect of a title bout rubber match and how that might affect rampage/rashad etc...i'd be interested to know if you think that's an option should Rua win.

Griffin is not top 10 imo. I think Vera would beat him pretty bad - I understand the disappointment surrounding Vera and why people say he's overrated, but I don't think he is. He looked to me like he wanted to stand and bang and Jones took him down even though he said he'd trade with him all day. I think that says alot about Vera's standup knowing how dynamic jones's is.

Luiz Cane is 3-2 in the UFC and beat nobody. Jones is already above him with his 4-1 record (and the 1 being a fight he really won big time against matt h) So really he can be thought of as 5-0 against tough competition. If it's really out of the question, than one more win puts him right there which actually shows how close he already is. IMO the most fights he gets before a shot is 2 more. If he wins his next 2 fights, there is no way I see he has a 3rd which isn't a title shot. In my mind though, I dont think it's that crazy if he got one before that.

Thats not how the UFC works. The only reason Rua got an immediate rematch was because it was such a poor decision and the public was going nuts. If Rua would have won, Machida would have had to work his way up like everybody else does. If Rua wins this time, Evans/Rampage will get the next shot.

LOL are you actually trying to make the argument that Vera is top 10 and Griffin isnt? Griffin has recent wins over Rua, Jackson and Ortiz. Name a legit top 10 guy that Vera's beat. He loses every top fight he's fought: Couture, Jardine, Jones, Sylvia, Werdum.

Even Dana said Jones is a year away from getting a shot. Lets have him beat a couple of top 10 guys before we award him a title shot ok?

[Sandman42]

Re: UFC on Versus - Vera vs Jones

I dunno, every time I've seen Vera fight, nothing jumps out at me. That's why when they announced a Vera/Couture 105 main event.. I was like

Vera never struck me as a main event act.

\

The hype died for Vera way before his fight with Couture. He was supposed the be the next big thing in the UFC a few years back (sort of like Jones is now), but this was back in 2006 and 2007. His loses to Sylvia and Werdum ended that though.

[mgoblue]

Re: UFC on Versus - Vera vs Jones

Thats not how the UFC works. The only reason Rua got an immediate rematch was because it was such a poor decision and the public was going nuts. If Rua would have won, Machida would have had to work his way up like everybody else does. If Rua wins this time, Evans/Rampage will get the next shot.

LOL are you actually trying to make the argument that Vera is top 10 and Griffin isnt? Griffin has recent wins over Rua, Jackson and Ortiz. Name a legit top 10 guy that Vera's beat. He loses every top fight he's fought: Couture, Jardine, Jones, Sylvia, Werdum.

Even Dana said Jones is a year away from getting a shot. Lets have him beat a couple of top 10 guys before we award him a title shot ok?

It's a no win situation. If the UFC makes him earn the title shot more then people bitch about how he deserves it now. If the UFC gave it to him now, everyone would bitch about how he doesn't deserve it.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: UFC on Versus - Vera vs Jones

Jones nowhere near deserves a title shot anytime soon.

In my eyes he's at least 3 fights away

[Phillmattic]

Re: UFC on Versus - Vera vs Jones

Jones could possibly be 1 fight away from the title. If they give him a legitimate opponent next, like say Thiago Silva, and he decimates him too, then there would be too much hype around him to not give him a shot at whoever is the champ.

No one really works their way up the ladder for a shot. You give the shot to whoever will make it the biggest fight possible.

[aholbert32]

Re: UFC on Versus - Vera vs Jones

Jones could possibly be 1 fight away from the title. If they give him a legitimate opponent next, like say Thiago Silva, and he decimates him too, then there would be too much hype around him to not give him a shot at whoever is the champ.

No one really works their way up the ladder for a shot. You give the shot to whoever will make it the biggest fight possible.

I'd argue that a title fight involving the winner of Rampage/Evans or Couture would be a much bigger fight than a title fight with Jones. Jones hasnt even main evented or co-main evented a PPV yet. No one knows if he is a PPV draw yet.