Strikeforce - Fedor v. Werdum - June 26

[Gibbz]

Re: Strikeforce - Fedor v. Werdum - June 26

Frank Mir is better than Shane Carwin.

I thought so until they fought...

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: Strikeforce - Fedor v. Werdum - June 26

Frank Mir is better than Shane Carwin.

I'm not sure how you can make such a pointed comment about MMA. Once you get to the top, differentiating them becomes extremely difficult.

It's further baffling since Carwin just destroyed Mir.

"Being better" in this sport can still obviously result in a loss, a devastating loss at that. Skill will give way to other attributes like strength or cardio etc. much more than in any other sport.

[aholbert32]

Re: Strikeforce - Fedor v. Werdum - June 26

Yes, because the Fertitas have never had any connection to the "mob". I'm sure Dana didn't learn any tricks from them because they are so straight line, come on now man. Dana is not only just competitive, he is acting like a *bleep*. It doesn't surprise me that Dana does stuff like this (not anymore, at least) but it doesn't make it right or mean that I have to agree with it.

Furthermore, you act as if Fedor is wrong for not signing with the UFC. I would like to know how Fedor is wrong for wanting to do his own thing? I could see if he talked garbage about being the best ever and then refused to sign with the UFC where "The best Heavyweights" are. Fedor doesn't really seem to care about his legacy or about being the best ever, and I have never heard him say a word to the opposite. Fedor is a humble guy that fights for Russia, God and his family, not for status in MMA history.

How is Fedor wrong for the UFC approaching HIM with a deal (not the other way around from the info that I have) and Fedor refusing because the deal wouldn't fit in with HIS plans? I just don't get it. It's like getting mad at a guy for not buying stock in McDonald's because he wants to start his own restaurant chain. Sure, it MAY fail or he may not make as much money, but why knock the guy for wanting to do his own thing and be happy? Fedor is allowed to pursue his own business ventures that don't involve putting more money in a shady guys pocket like Dana White. And seeing how Dana White treats people that he doesn't like, I wouldn't want to work with him either if I had other options.

Dana White and the UFC aren't the be-all and end-all in life. People (in MMA) are allowed to have other dreams and aspirations that don't require Dana White's approval/involvement regardless of how "minuscule" their chances are at succeeding.

Its obvious that Fedor doesnt care about his legacy or the fans. He shows that by refusing to fight in the best MMA organization on the planet. He would prefer to make slightly more money by fighting inferior competition. He's robbing fans of the opportunity to see him fight the best.

Give that "he does it for Russia and family" crap a rest. He does it for money just like any other fighter. Thats why him and his team fleeced SF for more money by demanding a renegotiation of his contract 1 fight into a signed agreement. They strong armed Coker and SF into more money from gate receipts and more exposure for M1.

You just have a huge hatred for White and it colors the way you look at this. Also, I dont know how anyone can call White "shady". Especially since no one in the sport has ever helped make more millionaire MMA fighters in MMA history.

[aholbert32]

Re: Strikeforce - Fedor v. Werdum - June 26

It will be very interesting how this loss affects M1 Global though...

M1 was using Fedor's undefeated record and legend to push companies around (exactly like the UFC does) and get their co-promotion deals to make tons of cash. I don't think they have the leverage now, where does it really make sense for Strikeforce to give as much cash to M1 as they used to? Fedor's still a great fighter, but it was that "never beaten" mystique that they were using to sell him...

Plus the Fedor PPV's didn't really sell that great anyways, so who knows....

Exactly they have zero leverage now. He doesnt sell PPVs on his own. He no longer has the undefeated mystique.

[aholbert32]

Re: Strikeforce - Fedor v. Werdum - June 26

wanted to throw something else out there. Wasn't Fedor's pride days trips to Japan which I would think are much easier than going to California to fight.

Fedor's got to be affected with the amount of travelling he does to get to his fights. Anyone know how early he comes out before his fights? Going to Japan must have been worlds easier for him/on him.

He arrived in the US last Sunday or Monday.

[Phillmattic]

Re: Strikeforce - Fedor v. Werdum - June 26

Fedor has been out classing people his entire career and its all been pretty much skill ,bjj blackbelts, elite kickboxers, wrestlers, etc.

And he's pretty much done it where ever his opponent wants to take the fight.

Febdricio Werdum is a world class bjj artist. Real world class, not "Joe Rogan" hype world class that you hear thrown around so often. No shame in getting caught by a guy like that especially when you choose to engage him in his element. Was it the smartest thing to do? Absolutely not, but fans tend to criticize fighters like GSP & Rashad for "playing it safe" and not engaging an opponent where they're opponent is best at. Hell, someone in this forum accused Rashad of just being straight up too afraid to stand up and fight Rampage.

Shane Carwin is still a baby in this sport. He has two big wins and I give him credit because in the end, he did win. But let's look back at those wins:

Now Shane Carwin is a strong guy but his fighting is seriously underdeveloped. In the stand up he tends to stand flat footed, not move his head, and lunge in with the same 1-2 combo. Gonzaga was straight up dominating him before Carwin caught him with a straight right hand. If I remember correctly Gonzaga probably would have finished him if he didn't decide to let him up.

Shane goes in to the Mir fight and honestly Mir is a way better fighter all around. But Shane uses his size and power to nullify anything Mir could do by pressing him up against the cage (you know, what people hate Rashad for doing). Frank Mir got out muscled by a bigger, stronger guy. He didn't get beat by a better fighter.

Being big and being able to punch really hard is only going to get him so far. Watch...

Btw this was a reply to ex carraba fan. I'm posting from my blackberry and I don't know why the quote didn't work

[Illustrator76]

Re: Strikeforce - Fedor v. Werdum - June 26

Its obvious that Fedor doesnt care about his legacy or the fans. He shows that by refusing to fight in the best MMA organization on the planet. He would prefer to make slightly more money by fighting inferior competition. He's robbing fans of the opportunity to see him fight the best.

Give that "he does it for Russia and family" crap a rest. He does it for money just like any other fighter. Thats why him and his team fleeced SF for more money by demanding a renegotiation of his contract 1 fight into a signed agreement. They strong armed Coker and SF into more money from gate receipts and more exposure for M1.

You just have a huge hatred for White and it colors the way you look at this. Also, I dont know how anyone can call White "shady". Especially since no one in the sport has ever helped make more millionaire MMA fighters in MMA history.

Why do I have to give "he does it for Russia and family" a rest? I'm telling you what the man says. That's all we can go by, I can't get in to Fedors head and say that he's thinking anything different than what he says. And to accuse me of having a huge hatred for White is misguided. I don't HATE anyone, I just don't like shady people...period. So I guess Rampage has a huge hatred for Dana White too, because he doesn't particularly care for Dana White and his business methods either.

Again, I would like to see Fedor fight in the UFC, but I can understand why he won't. Maybe Dana White is robbing fans of getting a great Tapout liscensed Fedor shirt, but apparently that's just business, so how is Fedor any more wrong than Dana White? So Fedor strong-armed Strikeforce and that is wrong, but Dana White strong-arms Tapout and that is to be expected/acceptable?

Fedor is doing what he feels is best for Fedor, just like Dana White is doing what he feels is best for Dana White. If Dana wanted Fedor bad enough, then he should have met Fedors demands, if not, then they go their separate ways and do their own thing. Maybe it works out for Fedor and maybe it doesn't, but I just don't see how Fedor is wrong in this....he's just conducting business, same as Dana White.

[Scoop_Brady]

Re: Strikeforce - Fedor v. Werdum - June 26

Why do I have to give "he does it for Russia and family" a rest? I'm telling you what the man says. That's all we can go by, I can't get in to Fedors head and say that he's thinking anything different than what he says. And to accuse me of having a huge hatred for White is misguided. I don't HATE anyone, I just don't like shady people...period. So I guess Rampage has a huge hatred for Dana White too, because he doesn't particularly care for Dana White and his business methods either.

Again, I would like to see Fedor fight in the UFC, but I can understand why he won't. Maybe Dana White is robbing fans of getting a great Tapout liscensed Fedor shirt, but apparently that's just business, so how is Fedor any more wrong than Dana White? So Fedor strong armed Strikeforce and that is wrong, but Dana White strong-arms Tapout and that is to be expected/acceptable?

Fedor is doing what's best for Fedor, just like Dana White is doing what's best for Dana White. If Dana wanted Fedor bad enough, then he should have met Fedors demands, if not then they go their separate ways and do their own thing. I just don't see how Fedor is wrong in this....he's just conducting business, same as Dana White.

Gee, didn't you just start a thread saying how what Dana did was wrong but totally ignored when I brought up what Fedor did to Coker? Neither Fedor or Dana are saints when it comes to business but apparently they're both pretty good at doing business. You're obviously a big Fedor fan and are willing to look the other way when he strong-armed Coker but had to start a thread when Dana strong-armed Tapout. Here's hoping that Fedor wears a Tapout shirt on his way to the octagon where he belongs.

[Illustrator76]

Re: Strikeforce - Fedor v. Werdum - June 26

Gee, didn't you just start a thread saying how what Dana did was wrong but totally ignored when I brought up what Fedor did to Coker? Neither Fedor or Dana are saints when it comes to business but apparently they're both pretty good at doing business. You're obviously a big Fedor fan and are willing to look the other way when he strong-armed Coker but had to start a thread when Dana strong-armed Tapout. Here's hoping that Fedor wears a Tapout shirt on his way to the octagon where he belongs.

I am a big Fedor fan, but people also like to overlook comments that I made about him NOT looking so good the last two fights, and probably being on the decline. All people want to do when it comes to Fedor is find the positive posts and pounce on those. It's not like I am saying he would clean out the UFC and that none of those guys stand a chance, just that I understand from his perspective why he didn't sign with them.

[Phillmattic]

Re: Strikeforce - Fedor v. Werdum - June 26

Gee, didn't you just start a thread saying how what Dana did was wrong but totally ignored when I brought up what Fedor did to Coker? Neither Fedor or Dana are saints when it comes to business but apparently they're both pretty good at doing business. You're obviously a big Fedor fan and are willing to look the other way when he strong-armed Coker but had to start a thread when Dana strong-armed Tapout. Here's hoping that Fedor wears a Tapout shirt on his way to the octagon where he belongs.

I'm pretty sure the M1/ StrikeForce situation was about M1 not feeling that they were properly represented in what was supposed to be co-promotional show on cbs. Apparently they were upset that, watching, you couldn't really tell that M1 was involved.

[aholbert32]

Re: Strikeforce - Fedor v. Werdum - June 26

Why do I have to give "he does it for Russia and family" a rest? I'm telling you what the man says. That's all we can go by, I can't get in to Fedors head and say that he's thinking anything different than what he says. And to accuse me of having a huge hatred for White is misguided. I don't HATE anyone, I just don't like shady people...period. So I guess Rampage has a huge hatred for Dana White too, because he doesn't particularly care for Dana White and his business methods either.

Again, I would like to see Fedor fight in the UFC, but I can understand why he won't. Maybe Dana White is robbing fans of getting a great Tapout liscensed Fedor shirt, but apparently that's just business, so how is Fedor any more wrong than Dana White? So Fedor strong armed Strikeforce and that is wrong, but Dana White strong-arms Tapout and that is to be expected/acceptable?

Fedor is doing what's best for Fedor, just like Dana White is doing what's best for Dana White. If Dana wanted Fedor bad enough, then he should have met Fedors demands, if not, then they go their separate ways and do their own thing. Maybe it works out for Fedor and maybe it doesn't, but I just don't see how Fedor is wrong in this....he's just conducting business, same as Dana White.

Um...you can go by more than his words. You can go by his actions. For someone who fights for his country, you would think he would want to make his country proud by fighting the top fighters in the world right? Well, Fedor isnt doing that.

As for Rampage, he is my favorite fighter but he is a nutjob. He contradicts himself weekly. He loved Dana and the UFC when he got into a automobile accident, made a woman lose her child and the UFC stuck by him. He hated them when HE pulled himself out of a UFC event that was made for him and located in his hometown to go shoot a movie. Rampage is the wrong person to use if you want to show how Dana is shady. Dana has stood by that nut more than any other fighter.

If Dana would have met Fedor's demands it would have been the beginning of the end for MMA. Every major fighter from Brock, Couture, Rampage and GSP (All bigger PPV draws than Fedor) would have been demanding co-promotional rights too. MMA would become boxing and no one wants that. The fans love that the UFC is centralized and if you want to watch 90% of the best fighters in the world, you can see them in one place.

The difference is Dana's moves are better for the sport as a whole. Dana's moves arent completely pure. He is a cutthroat business man who wants the UFC to succeed above all. But if Dana gets his way, we get to see great HW fights w/ Fedor. If Fedor gets his way, either he fights in SF against lesser comp or he turns the UFC into a free for all where fighters are represented by different promoters..just like boxing.

As an MMA fan, I prefer Dana's approach.

[Illustrator76]

Re: Strikeforce - Fedor v. Werdum - June 26

Um...you can go by more than his words. You can go by his actions. For someone who fights for his country, you would think he would want to make his country proud by fighting the top fighters in the world right? Well, Fedor isnt doing that.

As for Rampage, he is my favorite fighter but he is a nutjob. He contradicts himself weekly. He loved Dana and the UFC when he got into a automobile accident, made a woman lose her child and the UFC stuck by him. He hated them when HE pulled himself out of a UFC event that was made for him and located in his hometown to go shoot a movie. Rampage is the wrong person to use if you want to show how Dana is shady. Dana has stood by that nut more than any other fighter.

If Dana would have met Fedor's demands it would have been the beginning of the end for MMA. Every major fighter from Brock, Couture, Rampage and GSP (All bigger PPV draws than Fedor) would have been demanding co-promotional rights too. MMA would become boxing and no one wants that. The fans love that the UFC is centralized and if you want to watch 90% of the best fighters in the world, you can see them in one place.

The difference is Dana's moves are better for the sport as a whole. Dana's moves arent completely pure. He is a cutthroat business man who wants the UFC to succeed above all. But if Dana gets his way, we get to see great HW fights w/ Fedor. If Fedor gets his way, either he fights in SF against lesser comp or he turns the UFC into a free for all where fighters are represented by different promoters..just like boxing.

As an MMA fan, I prefer Dana's approach.

I do agree on Rampage being a nut job...no argument there, and with your comments phrased like that, I can respect where you are coming from.

I may not totally agree with a few of your points, but I do respect/see where you are coming from.

[goh]

Re: Strikeforce - Fedor v. Werdum - June 26

Sure Fedor can win vs. average talent...but names like Werdum beating Fedor only make me smile because Werdum is #4-#5 best HW in the UFC IF EVEN that.....

Brock,Carwin,Cain,JDS,Mir,Nog so would be 7th at best. That's not counting anyone that could,previously has or wants to move up to HW.

[Phillmattic]

Re: Strikeforce - Fedor v. Werdum - June 26

Um...you can go by more than his words. You can go by his actions. For someone who fights for his country, you would think he would want to make his country proud by fighting the top fighters in the world right? Well, Fedor isnt doing that.

As for Rampage, he is my favorite fighter but he is a nutjob. He contradicts himself weekly. He loved Dana and the UFC when he got into a automobile accident, made a woman lose her child and the UFC stuck by him. He hated them when HE pulled himself out of a UFC event that was made for him and located in his hometown to go shoot a movie. Rampage is the wrong person to use if you want to show how Dana is shady. Dana has stood by that nut more than any other fighter.

If Dana would have met Fedor's demands it would have been the beginning of the end for MMA. Every major fighter from Brock, Couture, Rampage and GSP (All bigger PPV draws than Fedor) would have been demanding co-promotional rights too. MMA would become boxing and no one wants that. The fans love that the UFC is centralized and if you want to watch 90% of the best fighters in the world, you can see them in one place.

The difference is Dana's moves are better for the sport as a whole. Dana's moves arent completely pure. He is a cutthroat business man who wants the UFC to succeed above all. But if Dana gets his way, we get to see great HW fights w/ Fedor. If Fedor gets his way, either he fights in SF against lesser comp or he turns the UFC into a free for all where fighters are represented by different promoters..just like boxing.

As an MMA fan, I prefer Dana's approach.

I posted a while back that Fedor doesn't care about his "legacy".

But if you're a fighter in Fedor's position you have to do what is best for you and your life. His co-promotion demands probably are pretty ridiculous, but then again the career of a fighter is short, so having something to lean back on isn't a bad idea.

Werdum was on his way to fighting for the UFC title before he was beat by JDS. Then the UFC decided they wanted to cut half of his pay, when he refused they released him. Now everyone seems to think that he sucks and couldn't hang in the UFC. What if Fedor were to receive the same kind of treatment? Would it have been the best decision he could have made for his career?

One of Fedor's major complaints about the UFC contract is that if he was winning they could own him forever, if he loses then they could cut him whenever. Doesn't sound like a good situation for one of the most valuable fighters ever.

[aholbert32]

Re: Strikeforce - Fedor v. Werdum - June 26

I posted a while back that Fedor doesn't care about his "legacy".

But if you're a fighter in Fedor's position you have to do what is best for you and your life. His co-promotion demands probably are pretty ridiculous, but then again the career of a fighter is short, so having something to lean back on isn't a bad idea.

Werdum was on his way to fighting for the UFC title before he was beat by JDS. Then the UFC decided they wanted to cut half of his pay, when he refused they released him. Now everyone seems to think that he sucks and couldn't hang in the UFC. What if Fedor were to receive the same kind of treatment? Would it have been the best decision he could have made for his career?

One of Fedor's major complaints about the UFC contract is that if he was winning they could own him forever, if he loses then they could cut him whenever. Doesn't sound like a good situation for one of the most valuable fighters ever.

Couple of problems with that. 1) Fedor's contract was a guaranteed one. He would have had 4 guaranteed fights under that contract so the UFC wouldnt have been able to cut him without paying out the rest of his fights. Werdum's contract was only guaranteed for 3.

2) Every UFC contract has a "champion's clause" that allows the promotion to keep a fighter as long as he continues to hold a belt. It protects the promotion so that they dont run into a situation like SF is in with Jake Shields. Dana isnt the only promoter who does this though. Coker and SF have CCs in their contracts too (Wouldnt be surprised if Fedor's contract has a CC). The only issue with Shields was that they bought his old EliteXC contract and that didnt have a CC.