UFC 121 - Lesnar vs. Velasquez

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  • Bona Fide
    Rookie
    • Jun 2009
    • 203

    #316
    Re: UFC 121 - Lesnar vs. Velasquez

    Originally posted by XFactah416
    Brock's wrestling isn't overrated.

    The problem is, people thought that because Brock had like this weigh advantage that he'd be able to shoot and take down Cain with ease. It's not happening like that when both of them are really, really good wrestlers.

    Brock is a really good HW still. Cain is the future though, and tonight is why he was so highly thought of.
    Yes Brock is still a very good fighter. People acted like Brock would be able to take Cain down at will, and it just wasn't true. Cain is just as good as wrestler, if not better, than Brock. That's all I'm trying to say.

    Originally posted by Gotmadskillzson
    Really ? Brock wrestled in the Big 10, Cain in the Big 12. They both were NATIONAL champs. That means you wrestle the best in the nation from all DIVISIONS.
    Big 10 and Big 12 are conferences bro, not divisions. Brock's only real competition was Stephen Neal, while Cain had to deal with the likes to Steve Mocco, Cole Konrad, and Greg Wagner. Oh, and Cain never won a NCAA Division I national championship.

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    • Beantown
      #DoYourJob
      • Feb 2005
      • 31523

      #317
      Re: UFC 121 - Lesnar vs. Velasquez

      Originally posted by bighoff63
      Waaaaaay off base here man, Brock wrestled in a stacked HW division his 2 years at Minnesota. His Jr. year he lost to Stephen Neal from CSU Bakersfield, Neal was a two time NCAA HW champion who went 151-10 in college, placing 4th as a freshman and 2nd as a sophomore. Neal was also the 1999 HWT Freestyle World Champion.
      And he is now the starting right guard for the New England Patriots, and probably would've slapped defensive-end Brock around on the football field, too.

      Comment

      • Phillmattic
        MVP
        • May 2003
        • 1071

        #318
        Re: UFC 121 - Lesnar vs. Velasquez

        I tried to tell you guys how one sided this fight was going to be. I predicted that for at least an entire fight though, similar to Couture/Sylvia.

        The Carwin fight EXPOSED Brock.
        .::..::::::::.:.:.:.:....:::.:.::::..:.:::....:::: ...:..::.
        "When you're an assassin, you don't have a conscience"-Gilbert Arenas

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        • thegut
          Kitten Mittens!!
          • Jan 2008
          • 635

          #319
          Great show by Cain. Dominated like I expected. Hopefully people can start talking about the merits of technique in mma more now. Kinda of tired of hearing Lesnar will win purely because he is big. Lesnar has the tools he is just not there in technique. He has time and the rematch hopefully will be better.

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          • Bighoff
            The Bird is the word
            • Jul 2002
            • 5312

            #320
            Re: UFC 121 - Lesnar vs. Velasquez

            Originally posted by Bona Fide
            Yes Brock is still a very good fighter. People acted like Brock would be able to take Cain down at will, and it just wasn't true. Cain is just as good as wrestler, if not better, than Brock. That's all I'm trying to say.



            Big 10 and Big 12 are conferences bro, not divisions. Brock's only real competition was Stephen Neal, while Cain had to deal with the likes to Steve Mocco, Cole Konrad, and Greg Wagner. Oh, and Cain never won a NCAA Division I national championship.
            Cain wrestled for ASU they are Pac 10 big Big 12. Stephen Neal is a hell of a lot better then Mocco, Wagner is good but was nothing special. Mocco was all hype coming out of Blair Academy in NJ.
            I've heard this "patience is a virtue" junk all my life. I'm happy to say I have no virtue, no scruples, and no desire to wait too long for anything. In my humble opinion instant gratification takes too long!

            Comment

            • Bighoff
              The Bird is the word
              • Jul 2002
              • 5312

              #321
              Re: UFC 121 - Lesnar vs. Velasquez

              Originally posted by Beantown
              And he is now the starting right guard for the New England Patriots, and probably would've slapped defensive-end Brock around on the football field, too.
              I know I know, I wrestled Stephen in high school, he was a beast then but a hell of a nice guy. Just got to show you how athletic some of these guy are that someone can not play a snap of football since high school and become a starting guard in the NFL, all about balance footwork and technique and Stephen has all that. His jersey is the ONLY pats jersey I would consider getting.
              I've heard this "patience is a virtue" junk all my life. I'm happy to say I have no virtue, no scruples, and no desire to wait too long for anything. In my humble opinion instant gratification takes too long!

              Comment

              • Chrisksaint
                $$$
                • Apr 2010
                • 19127

                #322
                Re: UFC 121 - Lesnar vs. Velasquez

                Originally posted by bighoff63
                Waaaaaay off base here man, Brock wrestled in a stacked HW division his 2 years at Minnesota. His Jr. year he lost to Stephen Neal from CSU Bakersfield, Neal was a two time NCAA HW champion who went 151-10 in college, placing 4th as a freshman and 2nd as a sophomore. Neal was also the 1999 HWT Freestyle World Champion.
                Yeah usually if ur a good wrestler in the Minnesota/Iowa region you're a pretty damn good wrestler imo.

                This was a pretty disappointing night and Lesnar losing just topped it off(LSU loses, Iowa loses so my mom's side of the family is pissed, Car breaks down,lock myself out of my house and then proceed to throw my shoulder out trying to open a window that ended up being locked).

                It was gonna happen eventually everyone's gonna lose once in awhile, I'm suprised he didn't lose his last match after everything he had gone through. Lesnar seems like the type of guy that after a loss that I kinda feel bad for whoever he fights next
                Saints, LSU, Seminoles, Pelicans, Marlins, Lightning

                Comment

                • Bona Fide
                  Rookie
                  • Jun 2009
                  • 203

                  #323
                  Re: UFC 121 - Lesnar vs. Velasquez

                  Originally posted by bighoff63
                  Waaaaaay off base here man, Brock wrestled in a stacked HW division his 2 years at Minnesota. His Jr. year he lost to Stephen Neal from CSU Bakersfield, Neal was a two time NCAA HW champion who went 151-10 in college, placing 4th as a freshman and 2nd as a sophomore. Neal was also the 1999 HWT Freestyle World Champion.
                  Yeah Neal was a beast, but he beat Brock. I'm just saying that the HW class when Cain wrestled was a lot deeper. I'm not saying Brock is a bad wrestler, I'm just saying that he's not some kind of unstoppable force. I'm just saying that the way people made it sound that Brock would steamroll Cain with his wrestling was ridiculous.

                  Comment

                  • Sandman42
                    Hall Of Fame
                    • Aug 2004
                    • 15186

                    #324
                    Re: UFC 121 - Lesnar vs. Velasquez

                    - I tried to tell people before the fight that Cain wasn't at much of a disadvantage. His standup is way ahead of Brock's and his wrestling is at least Brock's equal and you saw that tonight as he got right back up from Brock's takedown. Once again we see that Brock does not react well to getting punched in the face. Cain tagged him with an uppercut and it sent Lesnar stumbling across the cage and then he went down in the fetal position just like the Carwin fight. Guys like Lesnar and Carwin are just athletic freaks and can get by some fights on that alone, but when matched up against a well rounded fighter and athletic freak like Cain its going to be a lot tougher for them.

                    That said I absolutely can't wait for Cain vs. Dos Santos, should be a great fight. Give me Cain again though. Both have excellent stand up, with the edge probably going to Dos Santos, but I believe Cain will be able to control him with his wrestling.

                    - Thoroughly unimpressed with Shields performance, and Kampmann's. Why the hell would you attempt to grapple with a black belt the caliber of Shields. Shields was lucky to get that decision considering he won 1 round (I had rounds 2 and 3 as a draw). You pretty much have to match him up with Fitch now, but if he gasses like tonight Fitch will be able to dominate him past the 1st round. Maybe he should move back up to middleweight.

                    - Sanchez looked great. Not much else to say about this one other than it was a great fight and that maybe Sanchez should stay at 170, although he'll still get beat by the elite wrestlers at the top of the division.

                    - Can we get a Liddell/Ortiz matchup where both the winner and loser retire? That would be great.

                    - Hey, Jon Madsen finished a fight. That's 3 wins in a row now, eventually they have to put him on the main card, they can only give him he Fitch treatment for so long.
                    Member of The OS Baseball Rocket Scientists Association

                    Comment

                    • Sandman42
                      Hall Of Fame
                      • Aug 2004
                      • 15186

                      #325
                      Re: UFC 121 - Lesnar vs. Velasquez

                      Originally posted by OSUFan_88
                      Cain needs a miracle. If he keeps it standing, Brock will kill him. If he goes to the ground, Brock will obliterate him.

                      Seriously, start praying Cain.
                      Just reading through the thread now and died laughing at this post. I can understand thinking Brock was going to win, but there is no way that Brock had an advantage standing in this fight and Cain showed why. Also Brock has never 1 punch KO'd anyone and when he did rock guys with punches it was on fighters who have chins much worse than Cain.
                      Member of The OS Baseball Rocket Scientists Association

                      Comment

                      • Bighoff
                        The Bird is the word
                        • Jul 2002
                        • 5312

                        #326
                        Re: UFC 121 - Lesnar vs. Velasquez

                        Originally posted by Bona Fide
                        Yeah Neal was a beast, but he beat Brock. I'm just saying that the HW class when Cain wrestled was a lot deeper. I'm not saying Brock is a bad wrestler, I'm just saying that he's not some kind of unstoppable force. I'm just saying that the way people made it sound that Brock would steamroll Cain with his wrestling was ridiculous.
                        We can go round and round about it so lets just agree to disagree.
                        I've heard this "patience is a virtue" junk all my life. I'm happy to say I have no virtue, no scruples, and no desire to wait too long for anything. In my humble opinion instant gratification takes too long!

                        Comment

                        • DTX3
                          Hall Of Fame
                          • Jun 2003
                          • 13022

                          #327
                          Amazing, just amazing. I still cannot believe Cain won it the way he did. Velasquez-JDS bring it on!

                          Team Velasquez!

                          Sent from my HTC EVO 4G using Tapatalk
                          XBL: DTX3
                          PSN: DTX987
                          WII U: DodgerBlue760

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                          • Titus001
                            Rookie
                            • Jun 2008
                            • 376

                            #328
                            Re: UFC 121 - Lesnar vs. Velasquez

                            LOL. I called this like some others for a long time. Good to see the nothing but size and wrestling get exposed as the one dimensional wrestler he is by a well rounded machine in Cain V.

                            Originally posted by Titus001
                            Here is the low down on Brown Pride Cain V. Cain was high school wrestling state champion in Arizona.

                            He went to Junior College for a year. Won the Junior College National Championship.

                            He transfered to ASU. His highest finish in NCAA tourny is 4th on a controversial loss to the now training partner of Brock Lesnar, 2x NCAA Champion Cole Konrad, a 285 pound beast and NCAA legend.

                            Cain also holds a victory over NCAA Champion and legend Konrad. Konrad won a gold medal at the 2005 Pan-American Championships. He won the Ncaa wrestling championships in 2006 and 2007 at 285 pounds and finished third at the 2006 World University Championships at 120 kilograms.

                            The difference between the top guys in NCAA is often barely anything. Often its judges basing points cuz these beasts almost never completely dominant each other.

                            Cain is likely the 3rd or 4th best in his era of NCAA. Two of the best ever are from his era tho.

                            Brock is the 2nd best from his era. Stephen Neal was the best and maybe the HW GOAT from Brocks era.

                            Nevermind MMA, where Cain has an advantage over Lesnar in many departments. A NCAA match between them in their college primes would have been alot closer than alot think. Lesnar wouldnt just toss aside Cain. Nobody does that.

                            This should be a good fight. Lesnar better work on his striking. It's real bad. Panic/run mode as soon as he's even grazed with a decent shot is not a good at all combined with bad striking could be a recipe for disaster in due time for Lesnar. Cain V will end Lesnar.
                            Last edited by Titus001; 10-24-2010, 12:16 AM.
                            GO BUCKS!

                            Comment

                            • Bona Fide
                              Rookie
                              • Jun 2009
                              • 203

                              #329
                              Re: UFC 121 - Lesnar vs. Velasquez

                              College wrestling debates aside, I think Cain won this fight because of two things. One being that he has vastly superior striking, and the second being he's just as good of wrestler (in MMA) than Brock, if not better.

                              Maybe I shouldn't have said people overrated Brock's wrestling, and I should have said people underrated Cain's.

                              Comment

                              • Bighoff
                                The Bird is the word
                                • Jul 2002
                                • 5312

                                #330
                                Re: UFC 121 - Lesnar vs. Velasquez

                                Originally posted by Titus001
                                LOL. I called like some others for a long time. Good to see the nothing but size and wrestling get exposed as the one dementional wrestler he is by a well rounded machine in Cain V.
                                While Lesnar got his butt kicked tonight, he's still a new fighter. He's got just over 2 years in this sport, everyone is acting like he's a seasoned veteran. No one in MMA will ever get undefeated, you learn more from a loss then you ever do from a win. The true figher that is Brock Lesnar will be a monster to deal with in a couple of years, until then he'll use what he's got power, speed, and a great wrestling background.
                                I've heard this "patience is a virtue" junk all my life. I'm happy to say I have no virtue, no scruples, and no desire to wait too long for anything. In my humble opinion instant gratification takes too long!

                                Comment

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