UFC 121 - Lesnar vs. Velasquez

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  • aholbert32
    (aka Alberto)
    • Jul 2002
    • 33106

    #61
    Re: UFC 121 - Lesnar vs. Velasquez

    Originally posted by ex carrabba fan
    OK as long as you say him losing is not impossible.

    Yeah we are discussing what's likely to happen, I thought that was obvious. You're basically saying Cain has no chance of KO'ing him though. Cain has more power than Mir and Couture, I don't even think that's worthy of discussion.

    Both fighters have question marks and one fighter is the clear favorite, but I definitely could see the outcome going Cain's way via a punch. That's all I'm saying, you say you're going off facts well Brock has suspect stand up: check. Cain has finished all of his fights with punches: check.

    Obviously Cain has less power than Carwin and obviously Brock miraculously survived Carwin's onslaught. I doubt Cain gasses out if he stuns Brock in the stand up like Carwin did.

    Who says Cain has more power than Mir? Mir Ko'd Kongo standing which Cain couldnt do (Cain dominated the fight on the ground except for getting caught by Kongo). Cain has only had one UFC where his standup lead to a victory (Nog). The rest were takedowns and Cain using ground and pound to get a stoppage. So saying Cain has finished all his fights with punches is true but its beside the point if Cain is using his wrestling to get KO stoppages. That's a different kind of power than we are talking about.

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    • aholbert32
      (aka Alberto)
      • Jul 2002
      • 33106

      #62
      Re: UFC 121 - Lesnar vs. Velasquez

      Originally posted by Bona Fide
      Most people would have been KO'd by those killshots Kongo landed. If anything it proved Cain is hard to finish.
      Not really. Cain loses that fight if he's fighting someone who can defend a takedown. Credit goes to Cain for not getting KTFO with those shots but he's now fighting someone who hits harder than Kongo and if he gets caught he cant rely on a takedown to shake out the cobwebs.

      Comment

      • thegut
        Kitten Mittens!!
        • Jan 2008
        • 635

        #63
        Re: UFC 121 - Lesnar vs. Velasquez

        Originally posted by aholbert32
        Not really. Cain loses that fight if he's fighting someone who can defend a takedown. Credit goes to Cain for not getting KTFO with those shots but he's now fighting someone who hits harder than Kongo and if he gets caught he cant rely on a takedown to shake out the cobwebs.
        Hmmm. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that a Muay Thai world champion hits harder than Lesnar. The shots Kongo landed were absolutely brutal. Perfect technique and right on the chin.

        To turn the argument around. If Carwin would have trained for 5 rounds as opposed to 4 minutes Lesnar would have lost. If Lesnar gets hurt this time don't expect Cain to gas within 3 mins.

        Comment

        • redsrule
          All Star
          • Apr 2010
          • 9396

          #64
          Re: UFC 121 - Lesnar vs. Velasquez

          Originally posted by thegut
          Hmmm. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that a Muay Thai world champion hits harder than Lesnar. The shots Kongo landed were absolutely brutal. Perfect technique and right on the chin.

          To turn the argument around. If Carwin would have trained for 5 rounds as opposed to 4 minutes Lesnar would have lost. If Lesnar gets hurt this time don't expect Cain to gas within 3 mins.
          Kongo doesnt hit harder. He has better technique then Brock, but he doesnt hit as hard.
          I dont see Lesnar turtling up against Cain though, and the thing is if Carwin had any sort of cardio, he would of won, but he didnt so that is all that matters.
          Cincinnati Reds University of Kentucky Cincinnati Bengals
          @GoReds1994

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          • aholbert32
            (aka Alberto)
            • Jul 2002
            • 33106

            #65
            Re: UFC 121 - Lesnar vs. Velasquez

            Originally posted by redsrule
            Kongo doesnt hit harder. He has better technique then Brock, but he doesnt hit as hard.
            I dont see Lesnar turtling up against Cain though, and the thing is if Carwin had any sort of cardio, he would of won, but he didnt so that is all that matters.
            Thank you. We are talking about pure power not technique.

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            • redsrule
              All Star
              • Apr 2010
              • 9396

              #66
              Re: UFC 121 - Lesnar vs. Velasquez

              Originally posted by aholbert32
              Thank you. We are talking about pure power not technique.
              I think we are the only two people that have Brock winning
              Cincinnati Reds University of Kentucky Cincinnati Bengals
              @GoReds1994

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              • thegut
                Kitten Mittens!!
                • Jan 2008
                • 635

                #67
                Re: UFC 121 - Lesnar vs. Velasquez

                Originally posted by aholbert32
                Thank you. We are talking about pure power not technique.
                This is MMA. Power and technique go hand and hand. Granted if we are talking about Toughman then I will concede.

                By the way I'm joking. Unless we took turn getting punched by them would be the only way to tell.
                Last edited by thegut; 10-07-2010, 04:30 PM.

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                • LingeringRegime
                  Hall Of Fame
                  • Jun 2007
                  • 17089

                  #68
                  Re: UFC 121 - Lesnar vs. Velasquez

                  Originally posted by aholbert32
                  Carwin hits MUCH harder than Cain. Also Carwin buckles everyone. I would say Cain's power is on the level of a Couture and Mir and neither one of them were able to hurt Brock with strikes.
                  Is Carwin a precise striker though? I always thought that he is just freakishly strong, and just overwhelms people solely on that. Cain seems to be a much more technical striker. Not to mention his wrestling and Muay Thai.

                  Comment

                  • redsrule
                    All Star
                    • Apr 2010
                    • 9396

                    #69
                    Re: UFC 121 - Lesnar vs. Velasquez

                    Originally posted by DEFTFUNDAMENTALZ
                    Is Carwin a precise striker though? I always thought that he is just freakishly strong, and just overwhelms people solely on that. Cain seems to be a much more technical striker. Not to mention his wrestling and Muay Thai.
                    He's not a technical striker, but all he needs is one shot, as shown on multiple highlight reels.
                    Cincinnati Reds University of Kentucky Cincinnati Bengals
                    @GoReds1994

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                    • Bona Fide
                      Rookie
                      • Jun 2009
                      • 203

                      #70
                      Re: UFC 121 - Lesnar vs. Velasquez

                      Originally posted by aholbert32
                      Not really. Cain loses that fight if he's fighting someone who can defend a takedown. Credit goes to Cain for not getting KTFO with those shots but he's now fighting someone who hits harder than Kongo and if he gets caught he cant rely on a takedown to shake out the cobwebs.
                      Yeah, but Lesnar isn't as skilled a striker as Kongo. There is a HUGE difference between a guy with massive power than a guy with good power and very good technique. Cain outclasses Lesnar on the feet.

                      Comment

                      • Sandman42
                        Hall Of Fame
                        • Aug 2004
                        • 15186

                        #71
                        Re: UFC 121 - Lesnar vs. Velasquez

                        Sure, Lesnar may have more power than Kongo but that doesn't mean much unless he one punch KO's Cain. IIRC Kongo's knockdowns on Cain were from combinations. He landed a couple nice flush shots on him, don't know if Lesnar can do the same.

                        Also it depends on how you view Cain reacting to those shots from Kongo. On one hand he did get rocked, but on the other hand he never went to sleep.
                        Member of The OS Baseball Rocket Scientists Association

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                        • DJ
                          Hall Of Fame
                          • Apr 2003
                          • 17756

                          #72
                          Re: UFC 121 - Lesnar vs. Velasquez

                          Man, you guys are still talking about this? LOL.

                          As we all know, this is all speculation at this point. Anyone can get KO'd at any time. I wouldn't be shocked if Cain dropped Lesnar, or vice versa. Two big dudes (well, Brock is big-big) throwing bombs ... if you stand in the way of too many of those punches, you will go down, I don't care who you are.

                          Going outside the main event, I'm curious to see how the Tito Ortiz-Matt Hamill fight will unfold. Hamill always seems reluctant to use his wrestling and Ortiz's boxing was terrible against Forrest, so we'll see if that's improved at all, as I think he's going to have a real hard time getting Hamill off his feet. Only guy that's really taken Hamill down is "Bones" and we all know that guy is a freak.
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                          • redsrule
                            All Star
                            • Apr 2010
                            • 9396

                            #73
                            Re: UFC 121 - Lesnar vs. Velasquez

                            Originally posted by Djwlfpack
                            Man, you guys are still talking about this? LOL.

                            As we all know, this is all speculation at this point. Anyone can get KO'd at any time. I wouldn't be shocked if Cain dropped Lesnar, or vice versa. Two big dudes (well, Brock is big-big) throwing bombs ... if you stand in the way of too many of those punches, you will go down, I don't care who you are.

                            Going outside the main event, I'm curious to see how the Tito Ortiz-Matt Hamill fight will unfold. Hamill always seems reluctant to use his wrestling and Ortiz's boxing was terrible against Forrest, so we'll see if that's improved at all, as I think he's going to have a real hard time getting Hamill off his feet. Only guy that's really taken Hamill down is "Bones" and we all know that guy is a freak.
                            We are
                            But the whole card is very solid, and i'm very excited for the rest of the card as well.
                            I think Ortiz is going to win a close fight against hamill.
                            I am very excited to see the Gonzaga-Schaub fight too, I hope that Gonzaga shuts Brendan's mouth.
                            Cincinnati Reds University of Kentucky Cincinnati Bengals
                            @GoReds1994

                            Comment

                            • Vast
                              MVP
                              • Sep 2003
                              • 4015

                              #74
                              Re: UFC 121 - Lesnar vs. Velasquez

                              Originally posted by DEFTFUNDAMENTALZ
                              Here you go...

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                              Entertaining for sure. And i'm definitely looking forward to this fight just as much as the Carwin vs Lesnar fight, but c'mon.

                              After seeing this and essentially Brock went from skinny about 200 lbs to the gigantic monster that he is now in 3 years i have to assume Steroids was involved.

                              I thought he was a beast his whole life. Dude was skinny as hell even in Jr. College.

                              There is no way you can gain 70+ pounds of muscle in that time naturally.
                              "I'm addicted to Video Games, and i chase it with a little OS." -Winston Churchill

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                              • ex carrabba fan
                                I'll thank him for you
                                • Oct 2004
                                • 32744

                                #75
                                Re: UFC 121 - Lesnar vs. Velasquez

                                Originally posted by redsrule
                                I think we are the only two people that have Brock winning
                                Settle down. All I was saying and I'm sure others are saying is that there are ways Cain can win.

                                Aaron had initially questioned if there was an avenue for victory for Cain with all that we've seen from the two.

                                Brock is the favorite and maybe by a wider margin than he was for the Carwin fight but I don't think it's too big a feat for Cain.

                                I just don't get how it's out of the question for Cain to place a punch on the button and daze Brock. We've all seen Brock's crummy stand up and we've seen Cain's beautiful striking. You don't need Shane's power to daze Brock if you place it and time it well. People are so caught up in the Shane debacle they're making it seem like Cain cannot come out with the W.

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