The OS WWE 'Dirt' Thread

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Re: The OS WWE 'Dirt' Thread

I have no doubt that Cena would be an amazing heel, but I honestly never want him to turn. He is irreplaceable.

[DonkeyJote]

Re: The OS WWE 'Dirt' Thread

The reason people push for it is because it'd tell a very entertaining story. And that's what it should be about. Telling good stories. And Cena hasn't been entertaining to a lot of people for a while now.

[MachoMyers]

Re: The OS WWE 'Dirt' Thread

Not everyone can be Ric Flair and play both heel and face. Cena is great in the Ricky Steamboat baby face role. Just leave it.

[kingkilla56]

Re: The OS WWE 'Dirt' Thread

He was pretty awesome when he was the heel at the start. I became a fan at 12 years old because he was a cool heel. He could pull it off. But I think he'd be cheered out the *** and it would mess with Punk's role a bit as Batman to Cena's Superman IMO.

[TheShizNo1]

He was pretty awesome when he was the heel at the start. I became a fan at 12 years old because he was a cool heel. He could pull it off. But I think he'd be cheered out the *** and it would mess with Punk's role a bit as Batman to Cena's Superman IMO.

I see the exact opposite. I think Punk, DB, Ziggler.......and The Rock would make a Cena turn work. Those four are so over w/ the crowd, they'd still get cheered and w/ Cena being a heel and being someone people already boo.......booing him would be natural.

[DonkeyJote]

I see the exact opposite. I think Punk, DB, Ziggler.......and The Rock would make a Cena turn work. Those four are so over w/ the crowd, they'd still get cheered and w/ Cena being a heel and being someone people already boo.......booing him would be natural.

Well Punk is heel. You can't turn him face again so soon. He's already turned twice in the last 20 months or so. But they have Bryan, Sheamus, Orton, Del Rio and Ryback. And then all the part timers (Taker, Rock, Hunter, Jericho) are faces except for Lesnar, who could turn as well (though I'd rather him stay heel). And they could turn Ziggler and/or push Christian again.

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[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: The OS WWE 'Dirt' Thread

The reason people push for it is because it'd tell a very entertaining story. And that's what it should be about. Telling good stories. And Cena hasn't been entertaining to a lot of people for a while now.

Just to play Devil's Advocate...

When you say he hasn't been entertaining to a lot of people for a while now, what makes you say that?

[TheShizNo1]

Just to play Devil's Advocate...

When you say he hasn't been entertaining to a lot of people for a while now, what makes you say that?

Really PPM? Lol. The only time Cena has been entertaining is w/ Punk or People Power. Anything else has been a mixture of bland/boring/cheesy.

As a heel, you'd hope he'd bring something fresh. It's somewhat assumed he will since he was successful as a mid card heel.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: The OS WWE 'Dirt' Thread

I don't disagree but at the sametime, what are we basing this off of?

Is he talking about people on Message Boards or people in attendance at the events? I can easily say that Dwayne has been horrible for the WWE since he came back but there would be plenty of arguments going against that statement.

I have no question that he probably could bring something fresh, but like everything else, we'd get tired of that eventually(mainly because most don't exactly have too much confidence in WWE Writing/Creative in the first place).

[TheShizNo1]

I don't disagree but at the sametime, what are we basing this off of?

Is he talking about people on Message Boards or people in attendance at the events? I can easily say that Dwayne has been horrible for the WWE since he came back but there would be plenty of arguments going against that statement.

I have no question that he probably could bring something fresh, but like everything else, we'd get tired of that eventually(mainly because most don't exactly have too much confidence in WWE Writing/Creative in the first place).

I'm not touching The Rock part of the argument because I feel that's a separate unique issue.

I asked you are you serious, b/c to me it's obvious. He's not getting boo'd in arenas b/c he's a heel. HHH, SCSA, The Rock (not Maivia) did not get boo'd as faces. People complain b/c he's been this way for years man. Not a couple years. Freaking yearS. Who says we'd get tires of it? By that line of thinking we should just never worry about changing, b/c we'll eventually get tired of it, right?

DB is still going strong w/ a one (or two) word catch phrase. Taker has been the same forever. Flair was the same. HHH was the same. No changes need to be made if you're entertaining. He's not. Plain and simple. A change may do him some good. New promo material, new feuds, just a different dynamic.

I want to know if guys that are heels don't do the make a wish thing. That's a real sucky excuse.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: The OS WWE 'Dirt' Thread

Few things, Shiz

1. The Rock thing was just an example I threw out. I could've put Lesnar's name in there or even Jericho and the point would've still been the same so yea.

2. Not sure what you're arguing because I clearly said that I didn't disagree with what you said previously. Hell, I didn't really disagree with what Donkey said either. Was just playing Devil Advocate in that case.

3. Everything else you brought up about new feuds, new promo material, etc all ties somewhat into Creative/Writing does it not? Now I'm not saying that they never come up with anything good because it's inaccurate and that they have in the past, so I'll give them credit on those. But for the most part, the majority of people here have repeatedly stated that they have no confidence in them so why would people all of a sudden develop some confidence in them now? Because it worked over 10 years ago?(FWIW, I wasn't watching at that time so I don't know how he was then)

It wasn't that long ago when people were saying "Mix needs to turn face" and he does that and in the beginning, everyone liked it(personally I never liked it because I thought he was better as a heel). Now, people want him to go back to being a heel. Isn't Orton in that same group as well.

You mentioned something about he's not getting booed because he's a heel and you're right. But he also has half of the crowd booing him while the other half is cheering him. Will any of that change if he were to go heel or would the reactions still be the same except in that it'd be the Kids saying "CENA SUCKS" instead of 21+ crowd? Like I said earlier, if this had been a year or two years ago I'd be with it but turning him right NOW, I just don't see the point in doing it now or at any point.

[TheShizNo1]

Re: The OS WWE 'Dirt' Thread

Few things, Shiz

1. The Rock thing was just an example I threw out. I could've put Lesnar's name in there or even Jericho and the point would've still been the same so yea.

I know. But I don't think any of them fit this. Unless I'm misunderstanding your point.

We argue that The Rock sucks, but he pretty much gets unanimously cheered. All those guys pretty much get the response they're supposed to get. I don't believe you want your star face of the company, who also happens to be a face, get partial cheers. Regardless of who they're from.

2. Not sure what you're arguing because I clearly said that I didn't disagree with what you said previously. Hell, I didn't really disagree with what Donkey said either. Was just playing Devil Advocate in that case.

You threw a question out at the same time I was browsing OS. Just figured it was potentially another regular pointless debate I'd like to be a part of.

3. Everything else you brought up about new feuds, new promo material, etc all ties somewhat into Creative/Writing does it not? Now I'm not saying that they never come up with anything good because it's inaccurate and that they have in the past, so I'll give them credit on those. But for the most part, the majority of people here have repeatedly stated that they have no confidence in them so why would people all of a sudden develop some confidence in them now? Because it worked over 10 years ago?(FWIW, I wasn't watching at that time so I don't know how he was then)

Yes. What better way of knowing if something could work by looking at the past? Now, this isn't something you can do all the time, but it helps. I've been telling anyone who will listen that we're getting screwed out of this generation's SCSA/Rock w/ Cena/Punk. Those two have made everything gold. Keep Punk how he was around MiTB and turn Cena into an arrogant heel taking Punk's Yankees/RedSox analogy to heart. People want to boo Cena. So they'll cheer him when he's heel right? Maybe, but he has to be put against the right person first. I said somewhere else, those people need to be Ziggler, DB, or Punk. Those guys get constantly cheered and did when they all faced Cena. The majority of crowds like all of those guys more than Cena. I don't see him having an issue getting boo'd then.

It wasn't that long ago when people were saying "Mix needs to turn face" and he does that and in the beginning, everyone liked it(personally I never liked it because I thought he was better as a heel). Now, people want him to go back to being a heel. Isn't Orton in that same group as well.

I know you didn't mention me specifically been since I'm breaking all of your paragraphs down....

I never wanted Miz to turn face and can't stand him as one. Orton is more in the Cena mold. Bland and stale and just needs a change.

You mentioned something about he's not getting booed because he's a heel and you're right. But he also has half of the crowd booing him while the other half is cheering him. Will any of that change if he were to go heel or would the reactions still be the same except in that it'd be the Kids saying "CENA SUCKS" instead of 21+ crowd? Like I said earlier, if this had been a year or two years ago I'd be with it but turning him right NOW, I just don't see the point in doing it now or at any point.

I answered this one earlier in this post, I believe.'


I want Cena to turn heel. But it's not something I feel has to happen nor do I think it will. Those saying WWE can't afford to, why? Can't deny the numbers he brings in, but if Cena were that good, that great, why bring The Rock back? For this long. For this many times. To win the belt? Has anyone ever been able to leave for that long, then come back and get a title reign while going over probably the two biggest stars in the company? Serious question.

You turn Cena heel, and I believe 2-3 other top guys are created in Ziggler, DB, and maybe another guy I'm forgetting. He stays how he is now, and I think we stay status-quo

EDIT: One other thing, I wish the WWE would realize that Cena needs someone. All the greats had 1-2 people that come to mind when you thought of them. Cena has not consistently had that guy. He feuds, then just moves on.

[DonkeyJote]

With Miz, I think they had to try. The potential is there. He's a smaller guy with good mic skills and good charisma. He has had a very difficult time developing his character as a face, but I think you can't know that until you do it.

As far as Orton, the IWC may not like him as a face, but he's still super over. I think most of the talk of him turning heel stems from all the "reports" that he doesn't like being a face and wants to turn. I think he actually did a very good job in the role for a time, but now he seems like he's collecting a paycheck.

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[kblu54]

Re: The OS WWE 'Dirt' Thread

I think WWE is failing to realize that the "tweener" role has always had the biggest potential... Stone Cold, the Rock, Taker, etc were at their best when they were cocky and didn't care about being the "good guy" yet obviously they were. I think Punk and DB have been at their best when they play that role. I think Cena and Orton would immediately thrive again if they would ditch the "I've got to be the GOOD guy and nothing else" road they are on now (the one Cena's been on for forever). As I stated earlier in the thread, Cena's "heel turn" could simply be him becoming that cocky, don't care what you think guy. His promos would instantly become more entertaining. I'm sick of his "I'm doing this for you the fans, I PROMISE to win, I will fight to the death, blah blah blah" promos. They all sound the same. Seriously, take his last 5 feuds and look at all his monologue promos. Basically replace the opponent and you have the same script. That's what needs to change. He needs to start caring more about himself and not so much about the fans, kayfabe. He can still do all the out of the ring stuff and not lose his heelish, cocky character heat in the ring.

[MachoMyers]

Re: The OS WWE 'Dirt' Thread

Is Brock back for another year as a part timer? I think the crowd really is in to him and was surprised he wasn't pushed as a big face from the beginning. Would like to see a HHH hand shake or something and him be face for the second year of his deal if he is back again and just destroying people.