Conference Re-Alignment Thread Part Who Knows

[lonewolf371]

Re: Conference Re-Alignment Thread Part Who Knows

No, no, no, no, no and no. That's my response about Boise State.

Boise is in a lowly populated state, does not help the TV market. They might have a good football team, but that does not matter. Really, it doesn't. I don't know if this is EA's fault for years of moving teams up to better conferences just because you dominated the WAC or what, but really, everyone, get over the quality of the football team. Really, it doesn't matter? Want proof? We haven't kicked Colorado out of the conference and the Big 10 is still accepting Maryland. It's not a big deal. More important than TV markets, is academics. Yes, that might stun you, but research grant money is the most significant factor. That's why it is the first requirement to join the PAC 12, and if you are not a research institution, you are absolutely not considered for one more second. Boise State's academics are on par with that of a junior college. Sorry, but they would absolutely not be considered for one second.

I've said it before, but I'll keep saying it until people stop making suggestions that the PAC add random Mountain West schools for NO REASON AT ALL. Why would the PAC add more teams just because other people are? The PAC schools are making over 20M per year from ESPN and FOX. Adding smaller conference schools does ZERO to improve that number. It lowers it. Therefore, there is no reason to do it. Just because the Big 10 and SEC and ACC have 14 does not mean the PAC will do it. 14 teams does not make you better than you were with 12. It just means you have 2 more teams.

Research spending is bigger, but conferences don't share research money between schools. It doesn't work that way at all. There's a bit of a prestige factor in terms of how the schools can advertise themselves, but that's about it.

[Polo Bandit]

Re: Conference Re-Alignment Thread Part Who Knows

Houston isn't good enough for the SuperPac (especially after this year, and Boise isn't a large enough market. I think the Mountain West might be imminent, though, especially with the talk about SDSU, BYU, and Boise going back. All the pieces are falling nicely into place.

-Houston needs a good football conference, and it is quickly becoming clear that that description does not apply to the Big East.

-If they add Boise and BYU, the MWC will be the BEST football conference that isn't in the 5 power conferences (arguably better than the ACC, too). The addition of Houston would only help that profile.

-Houston wouldn't have to deal with East Coast travel anymore.

-Houston's basketball team would be in a better conference overall, while not getting competitively over their heads like they would have been in the Big East.

-The MWC gets to replace the portion of the Texas market that they lost when TCU left with a team that was preparing for "big-time" college football.

The only problem I see with it is that it would give the MWC 14 teams, and leave SMU out, which might make travel more difficult for UH or be unsustainably large. Some teams would need kicked out to make this work. Personally, I'd like to see The Teams That Were Supposed To Go To The Big East keep the WAC alive, maybe with Hawaii and Nevada in the mix too, but that might be a pipe dream.

I can see your point, I'm just not sure traveling to some of these western schools is any better than Big East, especially if there is no SMU.

[Hooe]

Re: Conference Re-Alignment Thread Part Who Knows

The SEC wants a Virgina and NC school. So that is very likely.

Virginia and Virginia Tech are tied at the hip by state politics, one's not coming loose unless the other is taken care of. I have said this repeatedly, people have ignored this, I'll try to be more clear.

Unless the ACC completely dissolves, which again I firmly believe will not happen, VT and UVa are going to stick by each other whether they want to or not because it's in the state's best economic interests. Proof by example, the state government in Richmond threatened to pull public funding when UVa was considering voting in favor of an ACC expansion plan that did not include the Hokies. The state government has great pull here, and it will act to protect two of its largest economic assets and the two biggest advertisements for two of the best public universities in the nation, two of the most important money draws for the state (UVa and VT are two of the largest by enrollment and also easily the most visible research universities in the state).

My point here is that the SEC isn't some bully that is just going to pick and choose what they want at the expense of other state economies, particularly when public universities and great sums of money are involved. More earth-shattering conference geography changes will become political issues before they are completed.

EDIT: some unrelated points -

I question whether Tech would really want to go to the SEC from an athletics standpoint. From a facilities and enrollment standpoint, they can't compare with even the mid-level schools in that conference. Particularly given that within the next ten or fifteen years if not sooner the program will need a new face and image with the departure of Frank Beamer, if the Hokies went to the SEC I don't see how they don't become just an also-ran behind the traditional powers.

I question as to how the Big XII has any better of a foothold than the ACC. Regardless of the money, the ACC is buddy-buddy with ESPN, whereas the Big XII if I recall has their primary TV money coming from FOX. I don't see how ESPN isn't a very easy trump card in this argument with regard to television coverage and brand exposure, it is the destination for college athletics. Combine that with the continued political perception that the Big XII is simply Texas and Friends, along with whatever reasons drove Nebraska, Missouri, and Texas A&M out, and I don't see how the Big XII can claim a position of strength over the ACC.

[SC3BBall]

Re: Conference Re-Alignment Thread Part Who Knows

They are going to need to add some teams because Rutgers, Connecticut, and Louisville are all looking for a way out now.

Yeah but they need a conference that actually wants them.


Do you really care where I sent this from?

Not sure if serious or just messing with me.

As far as Rutgers is concerned, they offer another flagship university with academic prestige, control of the New York market, and an athletic program with plenty of upside, which would obviously be improved with increased exposure and recruiting grounds with a new conference/TV deal.

Sent from my microwave

He's being serious. The ACC has 14 in football already. If they need anything to get to 16 in basketball, it would have to be a non-football school like Georgetown or St. John's.

Big 10? Doubt they're interested in adding anyone further right now.

Big 12? If they add 2 more to get a CCG, then it's Rutgers vs. Louisville vs. Air Force vs. BYU. Good chance Rutgers and Cincinnati are staying in the Big East. Louisville is likely the best bet out of the Big East teams to get into the Big 12.

Unless BYU and Air Force both reject a Big 12 offer or the Big 10 decides to expand, good chance Rutgers is staying right where they are.

Just going to go ahead and bump this.

[SC3BBall]

Re: Conference Re-Alignment Thread Part Who Knows

I don't think what sports conference the school is in has anything to do with academics. FSU bot and professors said they didn't want to leave the ACC because of academics, that was total crap. Does the conference control the level of professors that are hired, does it control the majors available, does it raise test scores, does it make companies want to hire graduates?

The answer is no to all those questions. The school can impose whatever standards they want for academics in any conference they are in.

You sound clueless.

[SC3BBall]

Re: Conference Re-Alignment Thread Part Who Knows

The next possible things I see happening are Clemson and Florida State bolting for the Big 12. After that I could see the SEC moving into North Carolina and/or Virginia.

UNC and UVa are a much better fit in the B1G.

I could see the SEC going after NC State.

[Juce734]

Re: Conference Re-Alignment Thread Part Who Knows

Virginia and Virginia Tech are tied at the hip by state politics, one's not coming loose unless the other is taken care of. I have said this repeatedly, people have ignored this, I'll try to be more clear.

Unless the ACC completely dissolves, which again I firmly believe will not happen, VT and UVa are going to stick by each other whether they want to or not because it's in the state's best economic interests. Proof by example, the state government in Richmond threatened to pull public funding when UVa was considering voting in favor of an ACC expansion plan that did not include the Hokies. The state government has great pull here, and it will act to protect two of its largest economic assets and the two biggest advertisements for two of the best public universities in the nation, two of the most important money draws for the state (UVa and VT are two of the largest by enrollment and also easily the most visible research universities in the state).

My point here is that the SEC isn't some bully that is just going to pick and choose what they want at the expense of other state economies, particularly when public universities and great sums of money are involved. More earth-shattering conference geography changes will become political issues before they are completed.

EDIT: some unrelated points -

I question whether Tech would really want to go to the SEC from an athletics standpoint. From a facilities and enrollment standpoint, they can't compare with even the mid-level schools in that conference. Particularly given that within the next ten or fifteen years if not sooner the program will need a new face and image with the departure of Frank Beamer, if the Hokies went to the SEC I don't see how they don't become just an also-ran behind the traditional powers.

I question as to how the Big XII has any better of a foothold than the ACC. Regardless of the money, the ACC is buddy-buddy with ESPN, whereas the Big XII if I recall has their primary TV money coming from FOX. I don't see how ESPN isn't a very easy trump card in this argument with regard to television coverage and brand exposure, it is the destination for college athletics. Combine that with the continued political perception that the Big XII is simply Texas and Friends, along with whatever reasons drove Nebraska, Missouri, and Texas A&M out, and I don't see how the Big XII can claim a position of strength over the ACC.

What is better for your states economy?

Home games against Miami U, Clemson,and Florida State or home games against Florida, Alabama, and LSU? Probably the SEC home games. How about home games against Texas, Oklahoma, and Oklahoma St.? Texas and Oklahoma would be better than any combo of two ACC games.

Plus the amount of money they would make in the SEC would far outweigh the money they make for being in the ACC. You can't deny that in any way shape or form.

[SC3BBall]

Re: Conference Re-Alignment Thread Part Who Knows

The SEC wants a Virgina and NC school. So that is very likely. If the SEC wants to stay the best conference, they need to take FSU and Clemson. If the ACC dies, then look for the left over good schools to join the Big 12 to make an east/mid-west divisions. Depending on which teams the SEC takes, the Big 12 could be better taking FSU, Clemson, VT or UM, and ND.

The SEC has shown that they want to take lower level teams though, so the existing members don't have to worry as much about being replaced. A&M messed with that though. We will see if they want to just expand to expand or expand to get more good teams.

Big 10 expanded just to expand. They made their conference even more watered down, just to expand their market size.

There is no chance in hell that UF allows FSU into the SEC. Not going to happen.

B1G did not just 'expand to expand'.

For one, Penn State has been BEGGING to get Eastern partners. These moves satisfy PSU and solidify their spot in the B1G.

They just crippled the ACC, delivered a blow to ESPN who controls ACC rights, and now they are going to try and grab a school like UNC, and hopefully force NDs hand in joining a conference (probably not likely)

They also just expanded into areas with a huge number of B1G alumni.

This expansion made perfect sense for anyone who isn't short sighted.

[gordogg24p]

Re: Conference Re-Alignment Thread Part Who Knows

Virginia and Virginia Tech are tied at the hip by state politics, one's not coming loose unless the other is taken care of. I have said this repeatedly, people have ignored this, I'll try to be more clear.

I think Texas/Texas A&M have proven that this sort of situation is meaningless.

[Hooe]

Re: Conference Re-Alignment Thread Part Who Knows

What is better for your states economy?

Home games against Miami U, Clemson,and Florida State or home games against Florida, Alabama, and LSU? Probably the SEC home games. How about home games against Texas, Oklahoma, and Oklahoma St.? Texas and Oklahoma would be better than any combo of two ACC games.

Plus the amount of money they would make in the SEC would far outweigh the money they make for being in the ACC. You can't deny that in any way shape or form.

For one team, sure, but Virginia Tech isn't operating in a vacuum.

The amount of money Tech would make from an SEC move combined with the amount of money UVa would lose from being left behind in a crumbling ACC (or vice-versa, replace SEC with B1G for UVa's purposes) would not exceed the combined amount of money that Tech and UVa bring in as members of the ACC.

That's my point. The politicians in this state care about both universities bringing in money; they are both huge assets to the state. VT isn't going anywhere unless UVa's financial solvency is secure, and vice-versa.

[Hooe]

Re: Conference Re-Alignment Thread Part Who Knows

I think Texas/Texas A&M have proven that this sort of situation is meaningless.

Trying to compare either UVa or VT to Texas is a stretch, putting it nicely. UT-Austin is one of the largest universities in the country and their athletic department has their own ESPN-backed television network. I'm pretty sure they don't care about what A&M does from a financial standpoint, as they are the one team outside of Notre Dame that could legitimately operate independent of a conference if push came to shove. Neither UVa nor VT would do well as an independent football school; the athletic departments depend on that conference revenue for baseline funding.

The political climate surrounding the A&M move was different, as well. My understanding is that A&M (and Missouri) actively wanted to leave to get away from the UT-Austin financial juggernaut, which they perceived as having way too much political swing in conference affairs. Conversely, there's no comparable perceived "wrong" that Virginia Tech is crying home to the hills about.

[Hooe]

Re: Conference Re-Alignment Thread Part Who Knows

They just crippled the ACC, delivered a blow to ESPN who controls ACC rights, and now they are going to try and grab a school like UNC, and hopefully force NDs hand in joining a conference (probably not likely)

The ACC is not crippled. They will grab UConn / Louisville / USF and move on as if nothing happened. Maryland simply isn't that special in the game of conference realignment.

[Ziza9Noles94]

Re: Conference Re-Alignment Thread Part Who Knows

The ACC is not crippled. They will grab UConn / Louisville / USF and move on as if nothing happened. Maryland simply isn't that special in the game of conference realignment.

For obvious reasons there is zero chance of USF getting an invite. Ditto UCF. There is only one way that happens...if FSU's BOT suddenly realizes that yearly home game slates consisting of Duke, Syracuse, Wake Forest, and maybe UCONN will do nothing to help the national image and gets the ball rolling on leaving. And if the U follows. Then again, FSU and Miami have very little say in conference decisions so who knows.

[T-Moar]

Re: Conference Re-Alignment Thread Part Who Knows

I can see your point, I'm just not sure traveling to some of these western schools is any better than Big East, especially if there is no SMU.

From a competition level, it's drastically better. I would take BYU and Boise in football over SMU, Cincinnati, and Louisville (which may not be there) any day. Furthermore, if UH doesn't go to the MWC, I could see SMU going without us. I'd like to see a 16-team MWC that features Houston, SMU, and another team (maybe Rice since there's a mutual "rivalry" there?), but I don't see that being anywhere near as likely as a 14-team MWC that features only one.

[SC3BBall]

Re: Conference Re-Alignment Thread Part Who Knows

The ACC is not crippled. They will grab UConn / Louisville / USF and move on as if nothing happened. Maryland simply isn't that special in the game of conference realignment.

Conference expansion is a chess match, not checkers. No the simple fact that Maryland left is not everything, but it will start to trigger the dominoes.

Maryland and Rutgers are important in the fact that they took away major media markets that the ACC could have had. The ACC could have controlled the entire east coast, but they stumbled.

Maryland leaving makes it even easier for FSU to leave, and Clemson to follow. FSU is not happy in the ACC, and is a likely candidate for the B12.

The ACC will then be vulnerable and be poached by other conferences in the race for 16.

The same way the ACC raided the Big East, the ACC is open to being raided now.