What NCAA game best captures the triple option and all it's intricacies?

[hrudey32]

Re: What NCAA game best captures the triple option and all it's intricacies?

Agreed in full, and I wanted to ask about the part in bold. What settings do you use for these?


I a Boise State Broncos fan, and Ian Johnson has something like 93 break tackle. He was a beast in real life out there. I want to feel life I am running with a dangerous back when they have 90+ break tackle against these student athletes at LB with 78 Tackle and those CBs with 54 tackle.You shouldn't be Super Mario with a Star power, but getting brought down left and right is not a solution either.

I use CPU/Human 5/5 for RB Ability and 5/5 Tackling. The one thing about the PS2 games, to me, is I do feel they are a bit too fast. Laying off the sprint button does help but I do think they are a tad fast. I kinda prefer the 2K5/2K8 speed. Tone Retro Gaming, who is a friend of Playbook Gamer (Volwalker) suggested this and says it lowers the speed. I think it does marginally.

Elite RBs or option QBs can still run great even with it set at 5.

[hrudey32]

Re: What NCAA game best captures the triple option and all it's intricacies?

Truth be told, I play 09 and 11 most of the time because I run strictly flexbone, enjoy the pre-snap motion and much better playbooks. I also enjoy 07. I do think 06 is probably the most sound as most know but it has some things against it that keep me from playing it a ton. Hate the kicking, limited playbooks, inside running seems weak.

I realize post 06 there are more issues but I don't really do a lot of recruiting, etc. I'm kinda in it to play a season full of games at a time. After a season I restart another, usually as another team. I always am seeking to keep the correct rosters so I guess I play it a bit different.

Really enjoying a 11 season as the 18 Georgia Tech Yellowjackets under Paul Johnson. Though I admit, in a game last night at Chapel Hill momentum was swinging back and forth which was great and felt real but it sorta bit me in the end on a couple of questionable plays. So that was a little bothersome. But I still had a great time so wasn't too bad. Exciting to say the least.

I'd like to bring up another title that most don't speak of quite as much. I haven't played it much but honestly 05 feels like more of the correct speed and is less gimmicky with none of the crazy, over the top hits the later games have so I may play with it some though the playbooks will again be limited. Love those player models in 05 though as Volwalker mentioned in his EXCELLENT write up on his page. It also was the introduction of one of my personal favorite features. (See below)

With that being said, some of the gimmicks I dig a lot. Not the 3rd person return cam. That's bad. But the slo mo close ups I kinda dig and one of, if not my absolute favorite thing in the series to me is the camera shake and controller shake in hostile stadiums. Trying to kick a 52 yard FG at The Swamp as time is running down and the controller and screen going absolute bonkers is just pure FUN to me and I can't think of a better way to replicate the noise and chaotic feel it must give players, especially young ones. It def makes it MUCH harder and just feels immersive to me. And trying to call audibles and the WR saying "I can't hear sh*t then running the wrong route!" Lol.

I love it and it seriously might be my favorite mechanic in all of sport gaming. Very well done. And it was introduced in 05 so that holds a special place in my heart I guess.

[volwalker]

Re: What NCAA game best captures the triple option and all it's intricacies?

Truth be told, I play 09 and 11 most of the time because I run strictly flexbone, enjoy the pre-snap motion and much better playbooks. I also enjoy 07. I do think 06 is probably the most sound as most know but it has some things against it that keep me from playing it a ton. Hate the kicking, limited playbooks, inside running seems weak.



I realize post 06 there are more issues but I don't really do a lot of recruiting, etc. I'm kinda in it to play a season full of games at a time. After a season I restart another, usually as another team. I always am seeking to keep the correct rosters so I guess I play it a bit different.



Really enjoying a 11 season as the 18 Georgia Tech Yellowjackets under Paul Johnson. Though I admit, in a game last night at Chapel Hill momentum was swinging back and forth which was great and felt real but it sorta bit me in the end on a couple of questionable plays. So that was a little bothersome. But I still had a great time so wasn't too bad. Exciting to say the least.



I'd like to bring up another title that most don't speak of quite as much. I haven't played it much but honestly 05 feels like more of the correct speed and is less gimmicky with none of the crazy, over the top hits the later games have so I may play with it some though the playbooks will again be limited. Love those player models in 05 though as Volwalker mentioned in his EXCELLENT write up on his page. It also was the introduction of one of my personal favorite features. (See below)



With that being said, some of the gimmicks I dig a lot. Not the 3rd person return cam. That's bad. But the slo mo close ups I kinda dig and one of, if not my absolute favorite thing in the series to me is the camera shake and controller shake in hostile stadiums. Trying to kick a 52 yard FG at The Swamp as time is running down and the controller and screen going absolute bonkers is just pure FUN to me and I can't think of a better way to replicate the noise and chaotic feel it must give players, especially young ones. It def makes it MUCH harder and just feels immersive to me. And trying to call audibles and the WR saying "I can't hear sh*t then running the wrong route!" Lol.



I love it and it seriously might be my favorite mechanic in all of sport gaming. Very well done. And it was introduced in 05 so that holds a special place in my heart I guess.

I've thought about just playing single seasons so I can avoid the off-season issues the later games have. That would let me show off various playbooks and schemes quicker at least.

Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk

[OBinKC]

Re: What NCAA game best captures the triple option and all it's intricacies?

Honestly, I go back and forth between 06 and 11. I feel 06 will always be tops because of the realistic need to build a team to compete more so than the other games, also how well the game plays without any slider adjustments, and finally how well a dynasty experience holds up through many seasons.

But then I’ll get a little bored and pop in 11, and it’s just fun. When it comes to in-game play, it feels more updated, the crowd noise feels more real and immersive, shotgun runs up the middle, etc. Anyway, that’s my two cents on that subject.

The one thing I’ll add about the Triple option on the PS2 games is that I’m still trying to find my footing with it, but it doesn’t yet feel like the “talent equalizer” that it is in real life. It seems you still need a good offensive line to execute the plays correctly. Or is there more I need to learn on it?

[volwalker]

Re: What NCAA game best captures the triple option and all it's intricacies?

Honestly, I go back and forth between 06 and 11. I feel 06 will always be tops because of the realistic need to build a team to compete more so than the other games, also how well the game plays without any slider adjustments, and finally how well a dynasty experience holds up through many seasons.

But then I’ll get a little bored and pop in 11, and it’s just fun. When it comes to in-game play, it feels more updated, the crowd noise feels more real and immersive, shotgun runs up the middle, etc. Anyway, that’s my two cents on that subject.

The one thing I’ll add about the Triple option on the PS2 games is that I’m still trying to find my footing with it, but it doesn’t yet feel like the “talent equalizer” that it is in real life. It seems you still need a good offensive line to execute the plays correctly. Or is there more I need to learn on it?

Good points. If there's any game post-06 I should bother with, it should be 11 since it has the most up-to-date playbooks. Maybe I can find a way to enjoy it without the need to deep dive into dynasty while still helping others at the same time.

[hrudey32]

Re: What NCAA game best captures the triple option and all it's intricacies?

Good points. If there's any game post-06 I should bother with, it should be 11 since it has the most up-to-date playbooks. Maybe I can find a way to enjoy it without the need to deep dive into dynasty while still helping others at the same time.

I hope you dive into 11. Just play the season games. That way the Dynasty issues don't ruin the game for you.

My main gripe with 11, as is the previous couple, is the big hit animation. Looks cartoon like. But I can deal with it if it gives me these great playbooks to work with. Really enjoying the actual season games.

[PGaither84]

Re: What NCAA game best captures the triple option and all it's intricacies?

I use CPU/Human 5/5 for RB Ability and 5/5 Tackling. The one thing about the PS2 games, to me, is I do feel they are a bit too fast. Laying off the sprint button does help but I do think they are a tad fast. I kinda prefer the 2K5/2K8 speed. Tone Retro Gaming, who is a friend of Playbook Gamer (Volwalker) suggested this and says it lowers the speed. I think it does marginally.

Elite RBs or option QBs can still run great even with it set at 5.

I appreciate it and give it a try now. I will give it 5+ games of experience and see how it feels. As I might have already said, I want backs with 90+ break tackle to matter. I also feel tat a high CPU RB Ability causes the AI to try for more special moves and generally runs smarter. I don't know if it is a placebo effect, but it feels like RB Ability impacts their awareness: ability to find and hit the hole or cut back, and also run after the catch, especially on screens and in returning kicks. I will see if it is significantly worse of 5% vs the 75% I like to use. I also worry about fumbles, as that is another "ability" of anyone running the football. However, I am always wiling to try different ideas



Right now, I have been messing around with blocking vs block shedding. I really like the look and feel of:
HUM/CPU 95/95 pass and run blocking
vs
HUM 25 / CPU 75 block shedding


I see far better logic and mechanics during blocks, but the ratings and leverage is respected. Defenders are no locked up like action figures in a block. Similarly, I do not see 74 strength defenders throwing 90+ strength offensive linemen on their backs... but I do see situations where defenders have equal strength or higher who DO throw linemen on their backs. The animation is nice, but it needs to be contextual.


I also feel that the programming for run blocking is good, but then everyone is dumbed-down on default 50% run blocking. I can see smarter blocks as I crank it up to 75 or so, and good interactions at 90 or 95%. With such a high level, I see blockers in the outside zone try to kick out, or scoop and close the door depending on the leverage and their assignment which I do not see at lower levels. However, with a high block shed, defenders are also always fighting to get off blocks. I feel, as a runner, that I truly have to read leverage and what is happening to make my cuts and moves. Gen6 Running in Madden normally felt like action figures crashing into one another and hoping for the best. It is a breath of fresh air to see and feel this in a Gen6 EA football title.


Similarly, on defense, it is very important to understand leverage and scheme to stop the run... and to not just be out manned up front.

[Von Dozier]

Re: What NCAA game best captures the triple option and all it's intricacies?

Following this thread has gotten me back into playing the older NCAA's, interested in seeing what kind of slider stuff you guys can continue to come up with.

[hrudey32]

Re: What NCAA game best captures the triple option and all it's intricacies?

I appreciate it and give it a try now. I will give it 5+ games of experience and see how it feels. As I might have already said, I want backs with 90+ break tackle to matter. I also feel tat a high CPU RB Ability causes the AI to try for more special moves and generally runs smarter. I don't know if it is a placebo effect, but it feels like RB Ability impacts their awareness: ability to find and hit the hole or cut back, and also run after the catch, especially on screens and in returning kicks. I will see if it is significantly worse of 5% vs the 75% I like to use. I also worry about fumbles, as that is another "ability" of anyone running the football. However, I am always wiling to try different ideas



Right now, I have been messing around with blocking vs block shedding. I really like the look and feel of:
HUM/CPU 95/95 pass and run blocking
vs
HUM 25 / CPU 75 block shedding


I see far better logic and mechanics during blocks, but the ratings and leverage is respected. Defenders are no locked up like action figures in a block. Similarly, I do not see 74 strength defenders throwing 90+ strength offensive linemen on their backs... but I do see situations where defenders have equal strength or higher who DO throw linemen on their backs. The animation is nice, but it needs to be contextual.


I also feel that the programming for run blocking is good, but then everyone is dumbed-down on default 50% run blocking. I can see smarter blocks as I crank it up to 75 or so, and good interactions at 90 or 95%. With such a high level, I see blockers in the outside zone try to kick out, or scoop and close the door depending on the leverage and their assignment which I do not see at lower levels. However, with a high block shed, defenders are also always fighting to get off blocks. I feel, as a runner, that I truly have to read leverage and what is happening to make my cuts and moves. Gen6 Running in Madden normally felt like action figures crashing into one another and hoping for the best. It is a breath of fresh air to see and feel this in a Gen6 EA football title.


Similarly, on defense, it is very important to understand leverage and scheme to stop the run... and to not just be out manned up front.

I use 99 Run Blocking and 99 Pass Blocking. The lower RB ability tones the speed down a bit. The lower tackle rating keeps most of the ridiculous hits down. But blocking and protection should be high cause I have defensive awareness at highest.

[hrudey32]

Re: What NCAA game best captures the triple option and all it's intricacies?

I may ruffle a few feathers here...and maybe I am wrong and I may backtrack later on...maybe. I kinda doubt it. But honestly, after playing 14 (360) for a couple of weeks while also playing the PS2 games (06,07,09 but mainly 11 playing a season and not worrying about recruiting and such), I've sorta came to this conclusion.

14 is good but I just don't see it as being that great and no where near as fulfilling as the PS2 era NCAA games in almost all facets. Gameplay, presentation, AI, challenge, control, audio...heck, even though it is a 6th gen I prefer the look of the PS2 games as well. Not to mention that the Home Field Advantage and camera/controller shake while playing the "toughest places to play" actually makes a big difference in the game. Its basically all visual in 14. Scrambling QBs make plays in the PS2 era games. Never happens in 14. Not that I've seen at least.

Again, it may not be a popular opinion to some but it's where I'm at right now. PS2 era NCAA games are true gems of the sports gaming genre.

With that being said, I will play the PS2 era stuff mainly but not completely giving up on 14 either. Just not really feeling it that much, honestly.

[PGaither84]

Re: What NCAA game best captures the triple option and all it's intricacies?

I may ruffle a few feathers here...and maybe I am wrong and I may backtrack later on...maybe. I kinda doubt it. But honestly, after playing 14 (360) for a couple of weeks while also playing the PS2 games (06,07,09 but mainly 11 playing a season and not worrying about recruiting and such), I've sorta came to this conclusion.

14 is good but I just don't see it as being that great and no where near as fulfilling as the PS2 era NCAA games in almost all facets. Gameplay, presentation, AI, challenge, control, audio...heck, even though it is a 6th gen I prefer the look of the PS2 games as well. Not to mention that the Home Field Advantage and camera/controller shake while playing the "toughest places to play" actually makes a big difference in the game. Its basically all visual in 14. Scrambling QBs make plays in the PS2 era games. Never happens in 14. Not that I've seen at least.

Again, it may not be a popular opinion to some but it's where I'm at right now. PS2 era NCAA games are true gems of the sports gaming genre.

With that being said, I will play the PS2 era stuff mainly but not completely giving up on 14 either. Just not really feeling it that much, honestly.

I can't and won't defend NCAA 14, because I was never able to get it. I haven't lived in the USA in 10+ years.

However, I will say that one HUGE advantage Gen7 football has over gen6 are the ratings. I enjoy my Xbox360 version of Madden 11 and I hope to one day get 14 sent to me when I can justify it, but I really enjoy Madden 12 and 25.

PS2/Gen6 football games ignore the defensive side of the football in terms of ratings. Almost everything is driven by awareness and the sliders.

In Gen7 football, they have block shedding, power moves, finesse moves, press, man coverage, zone coverage, play recognition, pursuit, and hit power as ratings. Madden 12 introduced player traits which were based on innovations from NCAA 11 for global team settings for being aggressive conservative or balanced. The amadden team took that code and essentially applied it to each player as individual traits.

As a result, especially playing Madden 25, you can team build in ways unavailable in all previous versions of EA and 2k football. The 3-4 is no longer cosmetic.

You can build for bull rushing block shedding DTs and move them to DE and even find 3-4 scheme DEs who match that description. You can scout for 3-4 pass rushers at OLB to play down as edge rushers in a 2-4 nickel and 2-3 Dime. Conversely, you can scout for that run stuffing 5th man OLB for the 4-3. You can scout for and build a team with "3-4 tackler" MLBs or go for the prototype 4-3 Mike.

You can look for strong press coverage CBs who you ask to play cover 2 under, or you can get fast man coverage guys, or you can get cover 3 zone guys and everything in between based on your scheme and style. The same is true about safeties. You can look for those hard hitting in the box guys or those sideline-to-sideline roamers and so forth.

Gen6 football just asks you: Is he fast and strong and does he have high awareness? That's it. No "plays ball conservative/aggressive/balanced and so forth.

Yes, sure, you can scout for big athletic players with high strength to play on the line and big athletic strong CBs to press up front. Everyone can. However, being big and strong doesn't mean they have good technique in all areas, but in Gen6, all they need is high/low awareness and they will be good/bad at everything + slider adjustments.

I love Gen6 football. That is what I am playing right now for the last two months, but I won't pretend I don't miss Madden 12, 25, and NCAA 11 on Gen7 for their own advantages and improvements in other areas.

No single game is perfect and it is a balance of where you get your fun.

I have been talking with Al on discord and he is such a kind, intelligent, and insightful person who is also so helpful. If you read this Al, thanks again.

Despite the flaws of NCAA 08, it is one of two games I have along side 04, and I am squeezing a lot of fun out of it. For example, I might be the only person who likes the return camera because it puts us closer to field vision out there and I wish I could have that kind of camera/the super star camera for running the football and after a catch. That is how I play NCAA 11.
I will switch and lock onto any one given player and snap the ball as that guy. It is quite satisfying to play all 11 different positions on offense. I play Center and guard in real life with adult amateurs (before Covid), and there is a satisfaction even in the game to playing Center on zone runs, sealing or kicking out the NT or scooping a double team or climbing to a LB to help your runner. There is something special about being that pulling guard or lead FB and picking up the first color you see through the hole. I will play as the slot WR on a choice play and press "A" to call for the ball as a user if I can get open. Playing as the X WR when you see isloated coverage and beating the leverage of the CB and calling for the ball once you are ready - knowing all the while that the COU controlled QB might throw somewhere else before you get open or might get sacked. There is a lot to be said of Gen7 football that I don't feel enough people give it credit for.

[PGaither84]

Re: What NCAA game best captures the triple option and all it's intricacies?

I use 99 Run Blocking and 99 Pass Blocking. The lower RB ability tones the speed down a bit. The lower tackle rating keeps most of the ridiculous hits down. But blocking and protection should be high cause I have defensive awareness at highest.

Please, be sure to post what your defensive sliders are as well in comparison to anything on offense you have



In the sliders section, I posted about why I detest Heisman. you can go 99 HUM and block vs 0% CPU block shedding and still see the AI blow you up over and over again. As a result, I only go All-American.








In using All- American, I found these kinds of results before trying 99 HUM and CPU blocking:







However, I am still looking for a sweet spot. The most important thing to me is to respect the ratings.


If the ratings are not respected, then it makes recruiting meaningless.


It still drives me crazy to see these insane defensive pancakes when the offensive player has a +18 strength advantage:





I want to know what determines these animation and how they can be manipulated to respect the ratings better. I don't want the pass rush to be stonewalled, but I am sick of seeing that above. I have ZERO problem if a good defender gets a solid swim, spin, or rip move. I have ZERO problem seeing this animation when my 84 Strength Guard is facing an 85+ strength DT. There is a reason, in real life, the Broncos actually kept #60 above at RG and played a RT who, in NCAA 08, has 85 Strength vs those weaker defensive ends, and I have begun doing the same since those images were taken.


I want to feel like match ups matter and recruiting guys with strength on both sides of the ball matters, and not being able to convenience those stronger player to commit to my program will force me to suffer the consequences.


While I do not want to suffer from "slider-itis" I think there will be a happy balance soon.


====================


Below, I talk about QB accuracy, WR catching and defense if anyone cares

Spoiler

I am also trying to work out QB accuracy + WR catching + CPU knockdowns. I think that somewhere around 40% QBA + 35-40% catching and 75-99% CPU knockdowns (in 08 at least) is in the right area.


I play as Boise state. Their WRs, from worst to best, have 76-86 catching. Regardless of real life performance, those ratings should not be holding onto the ball after big hits and making spectacular catches. In fact, they should be dropping some wide open balls as well with catch ratings of 76, 78, and 80 for the bottom three.


I improved Senior QB Taylor Tharp's ratings to reflect his real life performance in 2007. According to Wikipedia:

As the Broncos' starting quarterback in 2007, Tharp finished his senior season ranked seventh-nationally in passing efficiency (152.85) en route to second-team All-Western Athletic Conference honors, completing 289-of-423 passes for 3,340 yards and 30 touchdowns. At the time, his completion total was Boise State's single-season record.

7th in the nation in efficiency with 68.3% completions.
278ypg & 2.5TDs per game + school records that would later be broken by Kellen Moore, who is a freshman in NCAA08.


As a result, I increased his accuracy to 90.
The default roster has Brian Brohm leading every QB with only 95THA, Colt Brennan (RIP) - who was setting records in real life with 94THA, John David Booty with 93THA, four QBs (including Tennessee QB Erik Ainge) with 91THA, and four other QBs with 90THA. I had Tharp join that group of 90THA guys. He has the lowest THP of them all with only 86.


In terms of Awareness, only one QB has 90+, and that is Brian Brohm, again, with 94. Eight QBs have 85-89 Awareness. Ten QBs have 80 AWR and between those, thirteen QBs have 82-84 AWR. I put Tharp right in that range at 82 (there is no 83, the game goes by 2's until it hits 85).


With all of that said... it is very frustrating to see Tharp throw wild passes all over the football field with the slider set to anything below 40%. Before practice, for fun, I like to warm up and throw the ball around, and even I can throw better than how NCAA 08 represents a D1 QB throwing passes with sub 40% accuracy sliders. Sure, more goes into it, such as composure of playing in time with your WR while under pressure. However, more goes into incomplete passes than forcing the HUM QB to throw wild balls all over the yard.


Then, for the CPU, I was trying 75% QBA and Catching ,but that was too high and had everyone putting on a clinic. I am at 65% each and think somewhere around that or 70% is going to be just right. On defense, I have 25% HUM awareness and 25% knockdowns as well. My guys get to their spot, play the ball in the air and swat poor decisions. I have been playing a lot of games vs Tennessee (before I even met volwalker) because they have a very good offense with a talented offensive line, two star HBs, a great QB and many talented weapons to throw to. They also have one of the toughest places in the nation to play (composure) and are a good base line challenge. I should lose against their superior offense and stout defense led by NFL LB Jarod Mayo and NFL DB Eric Berry. However, my Boise state Broncos also have two NFL CBs of their own to try and keep things somewhat in check on the boundary.

We can also talk about tactics/scheme here:

Spoiler

Here are two images I put together from a 1989 or 1990 clinic by Monte Kiffin, who was then the DC of the Vikings. He was addressing high school coaches. He was talking about defending the run with only 7 in the box by using alignment, gap fill, and keeping your secondary tied to your front.







What we would call cover 3, he calls cover 4, s you can see here. It can get a little confusing at times.








In another part of the clinic/pdf, he talks about how they call cover two man under in the huddle on most first and second down so that the CBs align against twins/trips/4 wide in the base/nickle/dime. Then, if the offense comes out in a balanced look, you audible into your Cover 3 (his cover 4). I do the same. I then flip the play if needed against the strength of the offensive front. If they come out in I Strong (FB shaded to the TE side) I have a special audible that asks the SS to play the hook and the FS to play in the hole while also blitzing the MIKE through the C gap.






While they might look the same at first, L is from the Nickle and R is from the Dime. "A" is my Strong blitz vs double TE or a FB on the same side as the TE. "B" is my red zone Tampa 2 change up against the hurry up + just a solid generic audible.


This way, against balanced runs, I have all 8 gaps accounted for + we have 3 high and 4 in the middle with a seam defender at the safety level. There is no perfect defense, and when you know this is cumming as a human, you can attack it better. However, as a video game, we cannot make the micro adjustments such as counting outside in, using banjo coverage, and turning your zone drop into man follow. Against the AI, I find it fair and fun to use these base looks, and then save the interesting plays in your defensive book on third downs, in the red zone, and when trying to create chaos against a backed up offense.


On a similar note, it is interesting to see the same base defense used with rosters of different talent levels and how they well they hold up or get blown apart.

[SonOfEd]

Re: What NCAA game best captures the triple option and all it's intricacies?

Please, be sure to post what your defensive sliders are as well in comparison to anything on offense you have



In the sliders section, I posted about why I detest Heisman. you can go 99 HUM and block vs 0% CPU block shedding and still see the AI blow you up over and over again. As a result, I only go All-American.








In using All- American, I found these kinds of results before trying 99 HUM and CPU blocking:







However, I am still looking for a sweet spot. The most important thing to me is to respect the ratings.


If the ratings are not respected, then it makes recruiting meaningless.


It still drives me crazy to see these insane defensive pancakes when the offensive player has a +18 strength advantage:





I want to know what determines these animation and how they can be manipulated to respect the ratings better. I don't want the pass rush to be stonewalled, but I am sick of seeing that above. I have ZERO problem if a good defender gets a solid swim, spin, or rip move. I have ZERO problem seeing this animation when my 84 Strength Guard is facing an 85+ strength DT. There is a reason, in real life, the Broncos actually kept #60 above at RG and played a RT who, in NCAA 08, has 85 Strength vs those weaker defensive ends, and I have begun doing the same since those images were taken.


I want to feel like match ups matter and recruiting guys with strength on both sides of the ball matters, and not being able to convenience those stronger player to commit to my program will force me to suffer the consequences.


While I do not want to suffer from "slider-itis" I think there will be a happy balance soon.


====================


Below, I talk about QB accuracy, WR catching and defense if anyone cares

Spoiler

I am also trying to work out QB accuracy + WR catching + CPU knockdowns. I think that somewhere around 40% QBA + 35-40% catching and 75-99% CPU knockdowns (in 08 at least) is in the right area.


I play as Boise state. Their WRs, from worst to best, have 76-86 catching. Regardless of real life performance, those ratings should not be holding onto the ball after big hits and making spectacular catches. In fact, they should be dropping some wide open balls as well with catch ratings of 76, 78, and 80 for the bottom three.


I improved Senior QB Taylor Tharp's ratings to reflect his real life performance in 2007. According to Wikipedia:

7th in the nation in efficiency with 68.3% completions.
278ypg & 2.5TDs per game + school records that would later be broken by Kellen Moore, who is a freshman in NCAA08.


As a result, I increased his accuracy to 90.
The default roster has Brian Brohm leading every QB with only 95THA, Colt Brennan (RIP) - who was setting records in real life with 94THA, John David Booty with 93THA, four QBs (including Tennessee QB Erik Ainge) with 91THA, and four other QBs with 90THA. I had Tharp join that group of 90THA guys. He has the lowest THP of them all with only 86.


In terms of Awareness, only one QB has 90+, and that is Brian Brohm, again, with 94. Eight QBs have 85-89 Awareness. Ten QBs have 80 AWR and between those, thirteen QBs have 82-84 AWR. I put Tharp right in that range at 82 (there is no 83, the game goes by 2's until it hits 85).


With all of that said... it is very frustrating to see Tharp throw wild passes all over the football field with the slider set to anything below 40%. Before practice, for fun, I like to warm up and throw the ball around, and even I can throw better than how NCAA 08 represents a D1 QB throwing passes with sub 40% accuracy sliders. Sure, more goes into it, such as composure of playing in time with your WR while under pressure. However, more goes into incomplete passes than forcing the HUM QB to throw wild balls all over the yard.


Then, for the CPU, I was trying 75% QBA and Catching ,but that was too high and had everyone putting on a clinic. I am at 65% each and think somewhere around that or 70% is going to be just right. On defense, I have 25% HUM awareness and 25% knockdowns as well. My guys get to their spot, play the ball in the air and swat poor decisions. I have been playing a lot of games vs Tennessee (before I even met volwalker) because they have a very good offense with a talented offensive line, two star HBs, a great QB and many talented weapons to throw to. They also have one of the toughest places in the nation to play (composure) and are a good base line challenge. I should lose against their superior offense and stout defense led by NFL LB Jarod Mayo and NFL DB Eric Berry. However, my Boise state Broncos also have two NFL CBs of their own to try and keep things somewhat in check on the boundary.

We can also talk about tactics/scheme here:

Spoiler

Here are two images I put together from a 1989 or 1990 clinic by Monte Kiffin, who was then the DC of the Vikings. He was addressing high school coaches. He was talking about defending the run with only 7 in the box by using alignment, gap fill, and keeping your secondary tied to your front.







What we would call cover 3, he calls cover 4, s you can see here. It can get a little confusing at times.








In another part of the clinic/pdf, he talks about how they call cover two man under in the huddle on most first and second down so that the CBs align against twins/trips/4 wide in the base/nickle/dime. Then, if the offense comes out in a balanced look, you audible into your Cover 3 (his cover 4). I do the same. I then flip the play if needed against the strength of the offensive front. If they come out in I Strong (FB shaded to the TE side) I have a special audible that asks the SS to play the hook and the FS to play in the hole while also blitzing the MIKE through the C gap.






While they might look the same at first, L is from the Nickle and R is from the Dime. "A" is my Strong blitz vs double TE or a FB on the same side as the TE. "B" is my red zone Tampa 2 change up against the hurry up + just a solid generic audible.


This way, against balanced runs, I have all 8 gaps accounted for + we have 3 high and 4 in the middle with a seam defender at the safety level. There is no perfect defense, and when you know this is cumming as a human, you can attack it better. However, as a video game, we cannot make the micro adjustments such as counting outside in, using banjo coverage, and turning your zone drop into man follow. Against the AI, I find it fair and fun to use these base looks, and then save the interesting plays in your defensive book on third downs, in the red zone, and when trying to create chaos against a backed up offense.


On a similar note, it is interesting to see the same base defense used with rosters of different talent levels and how they well they hold up or get blown apart.

So in the past I did a deep dive into the profiles using Xans editor. There's so much in them, maybe this will help with your sliders. I compared several games, NCAA and Madden
Over the years these sliders were just renamed.
So:
Knockdowns is actually Pass Rush, the coding label still shows an abbreviation of Knockdown. Might explain some of the stuff you are seeing.
Defense Awareness was renamed Run Reaction(M12ish), and then renamed again to Pass Coverage (M25/NCAA) new name, same slider.

[PGaither84]

Re: What NCAA game best captures the triple option and all it's intricacies?

So in the past I did a deep dive into the profiles using Xans editor. There's so much in them, maybe this will help with your sliders. I compared several games, NCAA and Madden
Over the years these sliders were just renamed.
So:
Knockdowns is actually Pass Rush, the coding label still shows an abbreviation of Knockdown. Might explain some of the stuff you are seeing.
Defense Awareness was renamed Run Reaction(M12ish), and then renamed again to Pass Coverage (M25/NCAA) new name, same slider.

I would appreciate any evidence you can provide to back that up. I tried to apply that this afternoon and evening with zero success.

All-American
0% knockdown HUM & CPU
99% block shedding for HUM & CPU
50% Pass blocking HUM & CPU

Boise State vs Texas Southern
#54 = 88str
#92 = 76str
+12 advantage
Result:



#93 = 70str
#75 = 85str
+15str advantage for the CPU
Result:



All-American
0% knockdown HUM & CPU
25% block shedding for HUM & CPU
50% Pass blocking HUM & CPU
#64 = 85str
#93 = 74str
+11str advantage for the HUM player
Result:


After increasing HUM & CPU pass blocking to 70 or 75%, I was not seeing horrible pancakes. However, I still saw a combination of one or two linemen with the HB in pass protection ignoring pass rushers.

I have increased both to 80% and still have more testing to do, but it is very clear that knockdown has nothing to do with the quality of the pas rush and knocking linemen down in NCAA 08.

Decreasing block shedding to 0% results in ugly "animations" of linemen and defenders hugging one another in place and not doing anything or attempting to shed blocks.

I am stating to think that the animation of putting an offensive lineman on his back is just one of the scripted "win/super win" animations EA programmed and has little to do with strength. I am sure strength has some minor numerical modifier, yet its impact is marginal at best. I still hope to find a more realistic slider set to represent pass protection vs a pass rush and respecting the ratings.

If I cannot, then it means strength doesn't matter and is not worth scouting/recruiting for anything other than story telling. Why go after big strong 3-4 DEs and a Nose Tackle if strength doesn't matter? Why not just recruit for awareness and speed, even in the trenches? This is my mission - to make the ratings matter. However, the game feels like it is far more "sliders based" than "ratings based".

P.S. Apparently there is an old thread from 2007 in the NCAA forum which is literally titled the Knockdown Slider. It is 11 pages long and has people debate what it does and how it works on Gen6 vs Gen 7. The single best post that summarizes Gen6 NCAA 08 Knockdown slider is here:

With Knockdown at 99, defenders make a play on the ball to knock it down. They play tighter coverage, but go to knock the ball down first. You will see this on a miss thrown out or flat pass, the defender will have a clear shot at the pick, but go into a swat animation instead. I only control the DT so my db's are all computer controlled, even with INT at 0 with Knockdown low, I will get around 3 to 5 picks a game, I bump knockdowns up in the 90's and I will see many games with 0 to 1 picks. This is after about 100 games, I have made these observations. I don't mean to be a WiseA$$, but its not called the coverage slider, its named the knockdown slider because it actually affects the Knockdown tendencies.

I have not played as many games, but this was my experience as well before posting in this thread. I like 99 knockdown as well, as I see defenders going for swats and really attacking the ball in the air instead of just allowing WRs to "Jetpack/Rocket catch".

I will probably go back to 90/95/99 range of knockdown for the HUM and CPU. It made for a more enjoyable experience. This was a worthy experiment though. Thank you.

[OBinKC]

Re: What NCAA game best captures the triple option and all it's intricacies?

Following this thread has gotten me back into playing the older NCAA's, interested in seeing what kind of slider stuff you guys can continue to come up with.

I’ll say that, at least for me, 06 can be played on default Heisman with no problems. Some like to decrease QB accuracy once they’ve mastered everything, but I’m not there yet. The quarterback for me will still make errant throws at a good frequency.

Another thing volwalker taught me was that RB ability can be turned down because when the HB is an impact player, he is extremely capable of taking it to the house. I leave it alone. I like the challenge of stopping the run.

I also play ‘11 on PS2, and that requires a lot of slider adjustment because of Jump the snap and fumbles. I dare say there is no standard slider setting for that game, as people all see it differently. But I don’t like messing with sliders so take that for what it’s worth.