What NCAA game best captures the triple option and all it's intricacies?

[hrudey32]

Re: What NCAA game best captures the triple option and all it's intricacies?

I'm jumping between 11 on PS2 and 14 on 360. Overall, the PS2 reigns but I do like some of the varied triple option plays in 14. Trying to give it a thorough shot as I know a lot of people feel it is the best game. To me, it's all about how the triple option and flexbone are as that is what I play.

[Von Dozier]

Re: What NCAA game best captures the triple option and all it's intricacies?

I’ll say that, at least for me, 06 can be played on default Heisman with no problems. Some like to decrease QB accuracy once they’ve mastered everything, but I’m not there yet. The quarterback for me will still make errant throws at a good frequency.

Another thing volwalker taught me was that RB ability can be turned down because when the HB is an impact player, he is extremely capable of taking it to the house. I leave it alone. I like the challenge of stopping the run.

I also play ‘11 on PS2, and that requires a lot of slider adjustment because of Jump the snap and fumbles. I dare say there is no standard slider setting for that game, as people all see it differently. But I don’t like messing with sliders so take that for what it’s worth.

I tried going with Volwalkers sliders on Heisman, but I ended up seeing stuff in Heisman that PGaither talked about, more egregiously a 44 overall defensive end regularly getting super wins over a 90 LT.

Stuff like this becomes more obvious if you play on an emulator and use save/load states. I save stated that play a few seconds before the snap, and loaded it 5-6 times, and the win happened every single time. Also starts to make me wonder how much scripting goes on, as save stating/loading and watching how a single play plays out over and over again with incredibly little variation, in fact none at all in a lot of them. For example in one, I saved and load stated a play 10 times a few seconds before the snap on a CPU pass, and the CPU hiked, stood, moved to the left 3 steps, and got sacked. That happened every single time I loaded that specific instance, including the DE beating the OL in the same way, and the sack animation being the exact same.

In others, you get tiny little variations, maybe in the way the QB moves in the pocket, but the QB also seems dead set on getting it to a certain reciever on the play every time, covered or not. So there's doubt the QB even reads coverage, and rather the play selected has a designated reciever to get the ball to, come hell or high water.

[esayem]

Re: What NCAA game best captures the triple option and all it's intricacies?

I love running some option and my custom playbooks on 2005 and 06 include a few formations. For instance, I include a couple Flexbone sets and the Wishbone. I believe I replaced the Power T with the Flexbone because it’s more like the Wing. I’m no expert though.

What’s interesting is back on 2002 there were even more options (pun intended) for those formations. They disappeared between then and 2005, but I remember the Double Wing and Near formations being in 2002.

[OBinKC]

Re: What NCAA game best captures the triple option and all it's intricacies?

I'm jumping between 11 on PS2 and 14 on 360. Overall, the PS2 reigns but I do like some of the varied triple option plays in 14. Trying to give it a thorough shot as I know a lot of people feel it is the best game. To me, it's all about how the triple option and flexbone are as that is what I play.

I hear ya. I love the Triple Option, but I’d rather learn to like it on the PS2 than ever play ‘14, lol. That game just has too many flaws for me.

[hrudey32]

Re: What NCAA game best captures the triple option and all it's intricacies?

I wish someone would do some 21/22 rosters for 11 on PS2. Lord knows I barely have enough to play. Lol.

[PGaither84]

Re: What NCAA game best captures the triple option and all it's intricacies?

If anyone is interested, I think I have found some sliders that I am happy with.

Spoiler

SPRINT BUTTON BANNED

All-American
12 minute quarters


OFFENSE
HUM/CPU
40/65 QB ACCURACY
85/85 PASS BLOCKING
35/65 WR CATCHING
05/05 RB ABILITY
75/75 RUN BLOCKING

DEFENSE
HUM/CPU
35/65 AWR
90/90 KNOCKDOWN
00/00 INTERCEPTIONS
25/25 BREAK BLOCK
05/05 TACKLING

PENALTIES
99% FALSE START
50% HOLDING (60%+ results in way too many. 7 by half time for me.)
60% FACE MASK
90% OFFENSIVE PASS INTERFERENCE
10% DEFENSIVE PASS INTERFERENCE
90% CLIPPING
10% INTENTIONAL GROUNDING
90% ROUGHING THE PASSER
50% ROUGHING THE KICKER
60% UNSPORTSMANLIKE CONDUCT

NOTES ON PENALTIES:
This supposedly makes your WRs more aggressive in going for the ball.
I never saw a DPI flag at 90%, but I have seen 3 so far at 10%.
I have yet to see clipping called. This allegedly makes your blockers more aggressive
Supposedly the AI is more likely to take a coverage sack with a low Intentional grounding setting. Unproven.


NOTES ON GAME PLAY:

• Thus far, it appears I may have solved the STRENGTH pancake problem. In my last three games, I still see that animation, but it has only been when the defender has been even or at an advantage over the blocker. Especially if the blocker is retreating and an evenly matched defender is charging at them.
• Use Slide Protection liberally. Do not be afraid to hot route any combination of your TEs, HB, and FB into pass protection. Try to slide away from that extra blocker. Remember that AWARENESS matters and "dumb" blockers might watch a stunt run right around them.
• Remember that the AI is programmed to "GREEN DOG" blitz you. That means that a LB or safety who is in man against your TE/HB/FB sees that player block, they will blitz you instead of dropping into a hook zone or spy. You can create a feedback loop of blocking which results in more blitzers. Sometimes it is better to leave your guys on routes and throw hot. You make the call. I like to ask my X receiver to win on an island against most CBs and just ask my protection to give me 4 seconds.

Recommendations:


When playing against the CPU, I recommend keeping your scheme vanilla. However, that doesn't mean boring. What I mean is, I limit my hot routes to pass protection or real life adjustments such as turning a fly into a curl against soft coverage, or turning a curl into a fly against press coverage.


Remember, you are not playing against a human. The AI has shown the ability to make minor scripted adjustments. However, it has its limitations. Let your guys play to their ratings rather than just making user plays all over the field. Earn your stops through scheme.


Similarly, once I throw the ball, I don't press anything. I let my WRs go for the catch and make moves after the catch. I recommend allowing the AI to run for you as well, only making obvious cuts or hitting the hole if you are afraid that it will pass it up. I try to allow my runners play to their ratings as well. The only reason I user control the QB - as opposed to allowing him to play to his awareness with auto-pass - is because the AI for the HUM QB on All-American seems to play at the same level as the CPU QB on JV or Varsity level. You can play a mirror match and watch the HUM QB play horrible. That, and I enjoy executing my passing game.



These are all recommendations, not rules.

[hrudey32]

Re: What NCAA game best captures the triple option and all it's intricacies?

If anyone is interested, I think I have found some sliders that I am happy with.

Spoiler

SPRINT BUTTON BANNED

All-American
12 minute quarters


OFFENSE
HUM/CPU
40/65 QB ACCURACY
85/85 PASS BLOCKING
35/65 WR CATCHING
05/05 RB ABILITY
75/75 RUN BLOCKING

DEFENSE
HUM/CPU
35/65 AWR
90/90 KNOCKDOWN
00/00 INTERCEPTIONS
25/25 BREAK BLOCK
05/05 TACKLING

PENALTIES
99% FALSE START
50% HOLDING (60%+ results in way too many. 7 by half time for me.)
60% FACE MASK
90% OFFENSIVE PASS INTERFERENCE
10% DEFENSIVE PASS INTERFERENCE
90% CLIPPING
10% INTENTIONAL GROUNDING
90% ROUGHING THE PASSER
50% ROUGHING THE KICKER
60% UNSPORTSMANLIKE CONDUCT

NOTES ON PENALTIES:
This supposedly makes your WRs more aggressive in going for the ball.
I never saw a DPI flag at 90%, but I have seen 3 so far at 10%.
I have yet to see clipping called. This allegedly makes your blockers more aggressive
Supposedly the AI is more likely to take a coverage sack with a low Intentional grounding setting. Unproven.


NOTES ON GAME PLAY:

• Thus far, it appears I may have solved the STRENGTH pancake problem. In my last three games, I still see that animation, but it has only been when the defender has been even or at an advantage over the blocker. Especially if the blocker is retreating and an evenly matched defender is charging at them.
• Use Slide Protection liberally. Do not be afraid to hot route any combination of your TEs, HB, and FB into pass protection. Try to slide away from that extra blocker. Remember that AWARENESS matters and "dumb" blockers might watch a stunt run right around them.
• Remember that the AI is programmed to "GREEN DOG" blitz you. That means that a LB or safety who is in man against your TE/HB/FB sees that player block, they will blitz you instead of dropping into a hook zone or spy. You can create a feedback loop of blocking which results in more blitzers. Sometimes it is better to leave your guys on routes and throw hot. You make the call. I like to ask my X receiver to win on an island against most CBs and just ask my protection to give me 4 seconds.

Recommendations:


When playing against the CPU, I recommend keeping your scheme vanilla. However, that doesn't mean boring. What I mean is, I limit my hot routes to pass protection or real life adjustments such as turning a fly into a curl against soft coverage, or turning a curl into a fly against press coverage.


Remember, you are not playing against a human. The AI has shown the ability to make minor scripted adjustments. However, it has its limitations. Let your guys play to their ratings rather than just making user plays all over the field. Earn your stops through scheme.


Similarly, once I throw the ball, I don't press anything. I let my WRs go for the catch and make moves after the catch. I recommend allowing the AI to run for you as well, only making obvious cuts or hitting the hole if you are afraid that it will pass it up. I try to allow my runners play to their ratings as well. The only reason I user control the QB - as opposed to allowing him to play to his awareness with auto-pass - is because the AI for the HUM QB on All-American seems to play at the same level as the CPU QB on JV or Varsity level. You can play a mirror match and watch the HUM QB play horrible. That, and I enjoy executing my passing game.



These are all recommendations, not rules.

I'll give these a shot. There are a few sliders we have in common. Oh, which game are you playing? 11? I tend to play 11 or 09 the most due to pre-snap motion and the much better playbooks. 06 is still the GOAT of AI but the playbooks are just so limited and not having pre-snap motion with the A backs just makes it not feel like flexbone offense...to me.

[hrudey32]

Re: What NCAA game best captures the triple option and all it's intricacies?

Y'know one of my biggest gripes with 14 is I don't love any of the camera angles. They are all up too high for my preference. In contrast, I love the Zoom camera in the PS2 games as it is more "on the field". 14's cameras, just don't love any of the available cameras.

[PGaither84]

Re: What NCAA game best captures the triple option and all it's intricacies?

I'll give these a shot. There are a few sliders we have in common. Oh, which game are you playing? 11? I tend to play 11 or 09 the most due to pre-snap motion and the much better playbooks. 06 is still the GOAT of AI but the playbooks are just so limited and not having pre-snap motion with the A backs just makes it not feel like flexbone offense...to me.

All I have is 04 and 08 for Classic Xbox, so NCAA 08. It seems that the problem is balancing pass blocking vs block shedding so that you get a good ratio (I am at +60 blocking), and managing that against run blocking as well.


I see realistic blocks being shed based on leverage and with special moves like spin, rip and swim attempts. I also see strong offensive linemen drive defenders on their backs. I can't be sure if it is the perfect ratio, but after three games, it feels right. Feedback from other players helps a lot. Always make note of the STR differentials if you are taking notes, not just the OVR rating.

[Von Dozier]

Re: What NCAA game best captures the triple option and all it's intricacies?

If anyone is interested, I think I have found some sliders that I am happy with.

Spoiler

SPRINT BUTTON BANNED

All-American
12 minute quarters


OFFENSE
HUM/CPU
40/65 QB ACCURACY
85/85 PASS BLOCKING
35/65 WR CATCHING
05/05 RB ABILITY
75/75 RUN BLOCKING

DEFENSE
HUM/CPU
35/65 AWR
90/90 KNOCKDOWN
00/00 INTERCEPTIONS
25/25 BREAK BLOCK
05/05 TACKLING

PENALTIES
99% FALSE START
50% HOLDING (60%+ results in way too many. 7 by half time for me.)
60% FACE MASK
90% OFFENSIVE PASS INTERFERENCE
10% DEFENSIVE PASS INTERFERENCE
90% CLIPPING
10% INTENTIONAL GROUNDING
90% ROUGHING THE PASSER
50% ROUGHING THE KICKER
60% UNSPORTSMANLIKE CONDUCT

NOTES ON PENALTIES:
This supposedly makes your WRs more aggressive in going for the ball.
I never saw a DPI flag at 90%, but I have seen 3 so far at 10%.
I have yet to see clipping called. This allegedly makes your blockers more aggressive
Supposedly the AI is more likely to take a coverage sack with a low Intentional grounding setting. Unproven.


NOTES ON GAME PLAY:

• Thus far, it appears I may have solved the STRENGTH pancake problem. In my last three games, I still see that animation, but it has only been when the defender has been even or at an advantage over the blocker. Especially if the blocker is retreating and an evenly matched defender is charging at them.
• Use Slide Protection liberally. Do not be afraid to hot route any combination of your TEs, HB, and FB into pass protection. Try to slide away from that extra blocker. Remember that AWARENESS matters and "dumb" blockers might watch a stunt run right around them.
• Remember that the AI is programmed to "GREEN DOG" blitz you. That means that a LB or safety who is in man against your TE/HB/FB sees that player block, they will blitz you instead of dropping into a hook zone or spy. You can create a feedback loop of blocking which results in more blitzers. Sometimes it is better to leave your guys on routes and throw hot. You make the call. I like to ask my X receiver to win on an island against most CBs and just ask my protection to give me 4 seconds.

Recommendations:


When playing against the CPU, I recommend keeping your scheme vanilla. However, that doesn't mean boring. What I mean is, I limit my hot routes to pass protection or real life adjustments such as turning a fly into a curl against soft coverage, or turning a curl into a fly against press coverage.


Remember, you are not playing against a human. The AI has shown the ability to make minor scripted adjustments. However, it has its limitations. Let your guys play to their ratings rather than just making user plays all over the field. Earn your stops through scheme.


Similarly, once I throw the ball, I don't press anything. I let my WRs go for the catch and make moves after the catch. I recommend allowing the AI to run for you as well, only making obvious cuts or hitting the hole if you are afraid that it will pass it up. I try to allow my runners play to their ratings as well. The only reason I user control the QB - as opposed to allowing him to play to his awareness with auto-pass - is because the AI for the HUM QB on All-American seems to play at the same level as the CPU QB on JV or Varsity level. You can play a mirror match and watch the HUM QB play horrible. That, and I enjoy executing my passing game.



These are all recommendations, not rules.

12 minute quarters is interesting. What led you to set it to that?

[hrudey32]

Re: What NCAA game best captures the triple option and all it's intricacies?

12 minute quarters is interesting. What led you to set it to that?

I've been doing 11-12 myself to get realistic plays and scores. Then again I run Army flexbone so ball possession is a lot of the game. 8 minutes seems too short if you are a team that chews a lot of clock.

[Von Dozier]

Re: What NCAA game best captures the triple option and all it's intricacies?

I've been doing 11-12 myself to get realistic plays and scores. Then again I run Army flexbone so ball possession is a lot of the game. 8 minutes seems too short if you are a team that chews a lot of clock.

For my first game with what PGaither posted above, only controlling passing and letting the time run down to auto pick a defensive play, I won my first game as Notre Dame 52 to Akron's 14, with 57 plays for me and 63 for Akron. I could see the case for 9 minutes, but 11-12 seems like stats would actually get out of hand, snap count wise, so that's interesting.

Here are the stats for that game, btw

Spoiler

Notre Dame: 52 - Akron: 14

First Downs: 20-16
Total Offense: 455-338
Rushes-Yards: 39/222 - 19/43
Comp-Att: 12/18/5 - 25/44/2
Passing Yards: 233-295
3rd Down: 5/10 - 4/11
Penalties: 3/35 - 4/41
TOP: 15:21 - 16:09

E. Sharpley: 12-18, 233yds, 5 TD, 66%, 1 sack
-
C. Jackson: 23-40, 278yds, 2td, 2int, 57%, 4 sacks

T. Thomas: 26att, 168yds, 6.4avg, 1td
J. Aldridge: 7att, 18yds, 2.5avg, 1td
-
D. Kennedy: 7att, 11yds, 1.5avg
A. Allen: 2att, 21yds, 10.5avg

[hrudey32]

Re: What NCAA game best captures the triple option and all it's intricacies?

So, you guys know I am big into the Triple Option and Flexbone. Part of that is I'm kinda just tired of everything being so pass happy. I miss great running and blocking. Why I watch Army, Navy, Air Force and a few years back, Ga. Tech. This came from growing up watching Jamelle Holieway with the Oklahoma Sooners. With the Wishbone under Barry Switzer.

So I have been trying different games and I think I found one of my favorites. 11 is my go to but I wanted to use some historic rosters and replicate those times, that football, more faithfully than that of today. My inspiration? So I watched 86 Orange Bowl...number 1 Penn State vs number 2 Oklahoma. With a Freshman Holieway. Some great football back then. Physical football. What is closest to that in the series?

NCAA 2005! A slower, more physical and plain tougher game than any of the rest. I changed a couple settings (like upped Awareness, WR catching and blocking) but most was default. Couldn't do ANYTHING in the first half. So defensive but realistic. In the second half I stuck to my wishbone running attack (with the occasional pass) and things started to happen.

It was a great, realistic game in which I was down 17-0 at half. I came back but fell short 17-13.

I actually prefer the slower pace I think. It also made sense to me as players were slower back then than now. Also the bigger player models makes sense too because in 1986 player's shoulder pads were fricking huge!

2005 is just a wonderful game. It was a hard fought battle. Running seems to be even better than the other games as blocking seems better. And the triple option is really well done. Running upfild with the QB feels perfect. The pitching feels outstanding. The AI sometimes covers the QB and sometimes covers the running back. Smart. It's not the football of today but if you want to load some historical rosters (on Gamefaqs) for AR Max for PS2 and play some classics I think this game is about perfect. Playbooks are a bit limited but nothing, I mean NOTHING stands out as being bad or a red flag or nothing and the AI is top notch. Dare I say even better than 06. Again, just one game but very impressed.

Lastly, this was the intro of the Home Field Advantage with the camera shaking and the controller vibrating like mad when you are on the road in a hostile environment. However, it didn't have the Momentum meter which sometimes feels cheap in future installments. It may be my imagination but it seems like it was even more intense in 2005 than the following games. Punting and kicking field goals is downright a chore when the places is going nuts. And at Penn State I could about hang up calling an audible. Had to burn a couple timeouts because the players were like "huh"???? It was great. That is one of my favorite mechanics in all of sports gaming. love it. It absolutely sucks in the 360/PS3 gen era. This was intense and made a difference big time!

[esayem]

Re: What NCAA game best captures the triple option and all it's intricacies?

So, you guys know I am big into the Triple Option and Flexbone. Part of that is I'm kinda just tired of everything being so pass happy. I miss great running and blocking. Why I watch Army, Navy, Air Force and a few years back, Ga. Tech. This came from growing up watching Jamelle Holieway with the Oklahoma Sooners. With the Wishbone under Barry Switzer.

So I have been trying different games and I think I found one of my favorites. 11 is my go to but I wanted to use some historic rosters and replicate those times, that football, more faithfully than that of today. My inspiration? So I watched 86 Orange Bowl...number 1 Penn State vs number 2 Oklahoma. With a Freshman Holieway. Some great football back then. Physical football. What is closest to that in the series?

NCAA 2005! A slower, more physical and plain tougher game than any of the rest. I changed a couple settings (like upped Awareness, WR catching and blocking) but most was default. Couldn't do ANYTHING in the first half. So defensive but realistic. In the second half I stuck to my wishbone running attack (with the occasional pass) and things started to happen.

It was a great, realistic game in which I was down 17-0 at half. I came back but fell short 17-13.

I actually prefer the slower pace I think. It also made sense to me as players were slower back then than now. Also the bigger player models makes sense too because in 1986 player's shoulder pads were fricking huge!

2005 is just a wonderful game. It was a hard fought battle. Running seems to be even better than the other games as blocking seems better. And the triple option is really well done. Running upfild with the QB feels perfect. The pitching feels outstanding. The AI sometimes covers the QB and sometimes covers the running back. Smart. It's not the football of today but if you want to load some historical rosters (on Gamefaqs) for AR Max for PS2 and play some classics I think this game is about perfect. Playbooks are a bit limited but nothing, I mean NOTHING stands out as being bad or a red flag or nothing and the AI is top notch. Dare I say even better than 06. Again, just one game but very impressed.

Lastly, this was the intro of the Home Field Advantage with the camera shaking and the controller vibrating like mad when you are on the road in a hostile environment. However, it didn't have the Momentum meter which sometimes feels cheap in future installments. It may be my imagination but it seems like it was even more intense in 2005 than the following games. Punting and kicking field goals is downright a chore when the places is going nuts. And at Penn State I could about hang up calling an audible. Had to burn a couple timeouts because the players were like "huh"???? It was great. That is one of my favorite mechanics in all of sports gaming. love it. It absolutely sucks in the 360/PS3 gen era. This was intense and made a difference big time!

I am currently obsessed with NCAA 2005!

Just started a dynasty with lowly Northeastern and had an epic defensive Battle for the Beanpot vs Harvard. I won 6-0 and utilized my offense that includes Flexbone and Wishbone formations.

I love the player models, everyone looks so slim on NCAA 06, whereas on 05 the 300 pounder looks 300 pounds!

Pairing 2005 with the Dynasty editor and Jet’s scheduling program give you the perfect throwback college football experience!

[hrudey32]

Re: What NCAA game best captures the triple option and all it's intricacies?

I am currently obsessed with NCAA 2005!

Just started a dynasty with lowly Northeastern and had an epic defensive Battle for the Beanpot vs Harvard. I won 6-0 and utilized my offense that includes Flexbone and Wishbone formations.

I love the player models, everyone looks so slim on NCAA 06, whereas on 05 the 300 pounder looks 300 pounds!

Pairing 2005 with the Dynasty editor and Jet’s scheduling program give you the perfect throwback college football experience!

Absolutely! That's why I played the 85 Sooners vs the 86 Nittany Lions. To replicate the 86 Orange Bowl. 2005 replicates it perfectly. And the Wishbone is perfect. Current Flexbone playbooks require 2009 and up that include the pre-snap motion to be truly authentic feeling. But 2005 and the Wishbone is spot on. A touch slower, better and bigger models, better running and better defense. As you said. The perfect throwback college football game.