What NCAA game best captures the triple option and all it's intricacies?

[PGaither84]

Re: What NCAA game best captures the triple option and all it's intricacies?

12 minute quarters is interesting. What led you to set it to that?

Plays per game. The NFL Averages about 60 offensive plays per game per team. NCAA averages about 72-74 offensive plays per game per team. I would play a full 15 if that gave me the correct number of plays. I am someone who loves full games.


I don't chase stats, especially in College football with wide margins of talent disparity and where you can see 57-3 one week and 27-14 the next week. Instead, I chase solid game play which respects the ratings and play calls.


I do not claim to have perfect sliders, but I think I am 90% of the way there with the need to fine tune in some spots. Feedback is appreciated.


At 35% HUM awareness on defense, I see man coverage CBs with 80+AWR not behaving like idiots. When set to 25% and below, they get torched even in coverages/concepts they should lock up. I am not sure if I should go down to 30% or up to 40%, but 35% feels correct for now.


I am not 100% sold on 5%/5% RB Ability/Tackling. I see some terrible tackles in the open field, but I do like that players who hardly brush by the ball carrier do not get sucked into tackle animations. I have thought about trying 10-15% for both and to see how that goes. I am currently seeing Safeties with a HB or WR squared up and then go into some strange shoulder roll lunge towards the ground instead of laying a big hit or trying to wrap up. I coach (coached before covid) amateur adults. We would work on Hawk Tackling after warm ups at the start of every practice. They know how to tackle. I would hope that every player in this game has at least a basic fundamental knowledge of how to tackle coming out of high school and playing for their university. This is an area I am keeping an eye on.

For my first game with what PGaither posted above, only controlling passing and letting the time run down to auto pick a defensive play, I won my first game as Notre Dame 52 to Akron's 14, with 57 plays for me and 63 for Akron. I could see the case for 9 minutes, but 11-12 seems like stats would actually get out of hand, snap count wise, so that's interesting.

Are playing 06? 08?
In the 2005 season:

• Akron went 7-6.
• Akron averaged 75.5 plays per game.
• ND went 9-3 and were ranked #11 in the nation.
• ND had a lot of future NFL talent on their roster: From their starting QB and HB to a WR, a pair of TEs, 4 offensive linemen, 4 defensive linemen, 2 LBs, and 4 players in the secondary.
• Akron had three future NFL players: a WR and two members of the secondary.
• Akron lost to #13 Purdue 49-24, and to unranked Miami of Ohio 51-23.
• While ND never had a 50+ pint game, half of their games (6) were 40+ points with two 49 point games.

I must ask:

1. Did you ever pull starters? Real teams do.
2. What were you expecting with such a mismatch?
3. What were your observations of individual match ups, and what led to these results? What struck you as "off" and needing adjustments? I value feedback

After writing that, I noticed that you mentioned E. Sharpley, so maybe NCAA 09? The Irish had 18 future NFL players and Akron had none. While the Irish did not have an amazing season, I still feel that, on paper, they outmatch Akron by a margin close to what you have shown.

[hrudey32]

Re: What NCAA game best captures the triple option and all it's intricacies?

I actually think RB Ability/Tackling at 20/20 is fine. I just reduced it to 5/5 to slow the game a bit as it feels just a touch fast to me. It kinda still does but it's pretty close. I'm one of the few that think 2005's game speed is most accurate.

[Von Dozier]

Re: What NCAA game best captures the triple option and all it's intricacies?

After writing that, I noticed that you mentioned E. Sharpley, so maybe NCAA 09? The Irish had 18 future NFL players and Akron had none. While the Irish did not have an amazing season, I still feel that, on paper, they outmatch Akron by a margin close to what you have shown.

Oh, I wasn't complaining about how much I won by, I definitely should have won by that much, but more so pointing out how unrealistically ugly it could have got with 12 minutes instead of the 8 I played. I tried the 12 minutes out for one quarter in another game before I did that 8 minute game, and at the end of the first quarter it was 28-20 with no sign of slowing down. So I was initially wary of it.

I'm playing 08, btw, with your set.

Also, I didn't know there was a 10-15 play variance in snaps between College/NFL, so I guess to get correct stats I should indeed bump it up. Guess I was going by the 65-ish NFL snap counts mistakenly.

I am not 100% sold on 5%/5% RB Ability/Tackling. I see some terrible tackles in the open field, but I do like that players who hardly brush by the ball carrier do not get sucked into tackle animations. I have thought about trying 10-15% for both and to see how that goes. I am currently seeing Safeties with a HB or WR squared up and then go into some strange shoulder roll lunge towards the ground instead of laying a big hit or trying to wrap up. I coach (coached before covid) amateur adults. We would work on Hawk Tackling after warm ups at the start of every practice. They know how to tackle. I would hope that every player in this game has at least a basic fundamental knowledge of how to tackle coming out of high school and playing for their university. This is an area I am keeping an eye on.

5/5 for me seems to have entire games where it feels right, and entire games where it feels totally broken and every 3rd running play me and the CPU are trading 70 yard rushing touchdowns back and forth after breaking 5 tackles per play. I'd possibly put it to 10 for a compromise and see how that goes.

[PGaither84]

Re: What NCAA game best captures the triple option and all it's intricacies?

SNIP

1. Again, did you substitute? It is common for teams in a mismatch/blowout to substitute and early if it real ugly. The Boise State Broncos were pulling players with just under 8 minutes to go in the second quarter of 35-0 beat down which would end 56-7. Getting experience for younger players, not risking starters, and showing some level of mercy. I agree that it could have gotten really ugly with 12 minutes... and if you kept the starters in and really pushed for points. Most teams start handing it off and getting dump off passes and milking clock to go home. As you cross the opponent's 40 with the second/third string, you even begin calling FB dives and punting on the edge of FG range out of mercy.
2. I am interested in hearing your results of playing on the other side, as Akron at ND.
3. I saw that 20/20 was a recommendation for RBA/TAK. I am certainly willing to mess with this. I agree with you. Sometimes it looks GREAT at 5/5. Sometimes it is ugly, and we should try 10/10 before going to 15/15 or even the recommended 20/20. I think it also shows how close we are to some final sliders.
4. I think the CPU offense needs just a little bit more help, though it is difficult to pinpoint where. Suggestions are welcome. Especially if you play as Akron at ND and see if they return the favor... and if not, why not?

[Von Dozier]

Re: What NCAA game best captures the triple option and all it's intricacies?

1. I am interested in hearing your results of playing on the other side, as Akron at ND.

Tried Notre Dame vs Akron (me), 12 minute quarters, HFA off

Spoiler

Notre Dame: 44 - Akron (me): 62

First Downs: 28-25
Total Offense: 656-596
Rushes-Yards: 35/90 - 56/347
Comp-Att: 34/65/3 - 11/26/3
Passing Yards: 566-249
Sacked: 5 - 4
3rd Down: 12/24 - 7/16
Turnovers: 5 - 4
Penalties: 5/50 - 3/24

Total Snaps: 109 - 88
Total Yards: 847 - 845
TOP: 26:02 - 21:36

pass
(ND) E. Sharpley: 34/65, 553yds, 3td, 3int, 52%
(AKR) C. Jackson: 8/17, 207, 2td, 2int, 47%
(AKR) S. Hakes: 3/9, 42yds, 1td, 33%

rush (top 2)
(ND) T. Thomas: 24att, 97yds, 4.0avg, 1td, 2fum
(ND) J. Aldridge: 4att, 16yds, 4.0avg,
(AKR) D. Kennedy: 41att, 248yds, 6.0avg, 2td, 1fum
(AKR) C. Jackson: 7att, 75yds, 2td

WR drops: ND 8 - AKR 6

So yeah, 12 minutes was a little much I think lol. Might just go for 9 from now on. If you have any specific questions about the stats I can answer them.

[PGaither84]

Re: What NCAA game best captures the triple option and all it's intricacies?

Tried Notre Dame vs Akron (me), 12 minute quarters, HFA off

Spoiler

Notre Dame: 44 - Akron (me): 62

First Downs: 28-25
Total Offense: 656-596
Rushes-Yards: 35/90 - 56/347
Comp-Att: 34/65/3 - 11/26/3
Passing Yards: 566-249
Sacked: 5 - 4
3rd Down: 12/24 - 7/16
Turnovers: 5 - 4
Penalties: 5/50 - 3/24

Total Snaps: 109 - 88
Total Yards: 847 - 845
TOP: 26:02 - 21:36

pass
(ND) E. Sharpley: 34/65, 553yds, 3td, 3int, 52%
(AKR) C. Jackson: 8/17, 207, 2td, 2int, 47%
(AKR) S. Hakes: 3/9, 42yds, 1td, 33%

rush (top 2)
(ND) T. Thomas: 24att, 97yds, 4.0avg, 1td, 2fum
(ND) J. Aldridge: 4att, 16yds, 4.0avg,
(AKR) D. Kennedy: 41att, 248yds, 6.0avg, 2td, 1fum
(AKR) C. Jackson: 7att, 75yds, 2td

WR drops: ND 8 - AKR 6

So yeah, 12 minutes was a little much I think lol. Might just go for 9 from now on. If you have any specific questions about the stats I can answer them.

That is great information. I was playing my games at 10 minutes and found that I only had about 50-55 snaps, so I went to 12. I might do 11 instead.

I always make adjustments at the line and run the play clock.

With that many points as Akron, what would you change to improve the CPU defense? What faults did you find? It seems like the ND offense was getting work done. While CPU Akron was incompetent, CPU ND seems to have done their job. That seems like a good balance and that COU defense is what needs adjusting for you.

I am going to try to get a game in tonight.


Edit: Having a mobile QB is an extreme advantage for a user controlled offense. Knowing one's reads and then having mobility in your back pocket after you go through your first two keys in college football is really powerful.


I worry about the balance between CPU awareness and a user challenge. We can just play on 99% awareness, but at what point are we just making supermen out of the CPU? I used to play on 75% and saw even the 68awr players acting like All-Pro stars out there instantly reacting to anything and everything without error.


Then we can get into the fact that the AI will "always" be "easy" to defeat with sound user play. We know scheme and concepts and reads and have a unique video game perspective of what is going on out there. I would play pure coach mode if I could trust the CPU controlled QB to run an offense. I just detest the way EA and other try to make the game difficult by saying your offensive line is made up of traffic cones and a wet paper bag + your QB's accuracy makes you question how he even has a scholarship + your HB can be tackled by writing him sternly written letter and delivering it to the sideline.


I have been really enjoying the NCAA experience. The action cam, return cam, commentary, and college atmosphere. I love that if you audible with crowd noise, you have players who will get the play wrong. I love the post-play celebration animations and emotion. It really blows Madden and the No Fun League away. I love how the QB will talk to his guy after a drop and players react to their mistakes. The game feels so much more alive, that I am really enjoying just playing the game.

[Von Dozier]

Re: What NCAA game best captures the triple option and all it's intricacies?

With that many points as Akron, what would you change to improve the CPU defense? What faults did you find? It seems like the ND offense was getting work done. While CPU Akron was incompetent, CPU ND seems to have done their job. That seems like a good balance and that COU defense is what needs adjusting for you.

This is all off my memory from last night, but immediately during the first 5 minutes the CPU QB threw two bad INTs, and I scored off both of those with I believe 30+ yard options with the QB taking it to the house. I also had two scores where I just threw up a 50+ yard bomb in single coverage and scored TDs off both of those. So besides a few, all my TDs were big plays, usually off turnovers as ND had a lot. ND also scored off a fumble, so could have been 30-ish-62 in the end without that.

The two main culprits for the CPU not being able to maintain drives is the CPU rush still always feels weak no matter who I'm playing as who, so maybe that'd need a CPU block bump, along with raising CPU tackle but keeping HUM tackle at 5? Or lower the HUM break block. Dunno. But so many drives start off awful for the CPU where they try to rush and 7/10 times the back is downed at the line.

Also, the WR drop issue. It's something I've always noticed in even NCAA 14, that lowering the WR drop at some point doesn't make casual drops, but only drops in critical moments. There's always a ton of easy, even wide open third down catches that end up getting dropped and kill drives, where harder catches on 1st, 2nd down are always caught regardless. I've always seen a ton of sets that have WR catch at 75, so maybe that's an answer. Also, INTs, even at 0 still happen a ton, so maybe the theory of raising the knockdown slider up higher can eliminate that animation and make for more knockdown ones, in order to cut down on INTs even more?

And it's not like these games are 360/PS3 era EA football games, where the only way you can control a QB's completion percentage is through drops since they rarely ever throw errant balls, where on this gen they throw them all the time (the ND QB probably had 10 throws here that were wildly off the mark). So maybe WR catch upped for both teams.

So basically some sort of tweaks for the CPU RB to gain consistent yardage, and less WR drops can lead to continuing drives and points.

But of course, that's all off my experience of 2 full games and a handful of ones I quit around halftime as a test.

[PGaither84]

Re: What NCAA game best captures the triple option and all it's intricacies?

I really appreciate it and have done some similar tests myself. I found with 75/75 CPU QBA/WR CATCH, that the AI was going Peyton Manning on me with division 2 teams, so I began to back off to to 70 and 65. Maybe 70QBA and 75Catching?

I also agree that we want to find the difference between just randomly giving up 70+ yard TDs becy nobody can tackle... and having the best run defense in the nation.

At least when I faced Tennessee and LSU, they were having their way with my defense. Their offensive lines drove my guys off the ball and they could get nearly 6 yards before contact.

I tried 5 user block shed, but that was too low. I might go with 15 or so. I also used to use 75 CPU run blocking.

Honestly, I began with all user 25 and all CPU 75 and was making adjustments from there. I think, with your feedback and my observations, that we are closing in on solid sliders. I appreciate that.

I 100% agree that the CPU continuing drives is a balance between unstoppable and the AI giving the game away.

I also 100% agree that the CPU loves to call cover zero and leave our WRs 1 on 1 deep, where our X can tear them apart with deep comebacks, slugo-posts, PO-CO routes, Digs and more. It is both fun and too powerful to humiliate the CB with a star WR on an island by changing up the routes... and it only takes one or two scores off of this to break open the game, and before the CPU play calling respects your passing attack.

There are some things no amount of sliders can fix.

So, 70/75 CPU QBA/CATCH?
70 or 75 CPU Run blocking?
Maybe HUM 10/10 RBA/TAK & 15-20 for the CPU?

Some sliders can be very touchy and 5% can make a swing, whereas 0% interceptions is still interception city. I found that 90-95 knockdowns helps the defense go for those over INTs.

[OBinKC]

Re: What NCAA game best captures the triple option and all it's intricacies?

Because of the inability to make the edge rusher be left open in the PS2/Xbox Era without breaking the game, you have to read the 2nd level of the defense instead, in order to run the triple option.


Which meant reading the playside linebacker. If the playside linebacker blitzed, or crashed down, you kept the ball or pitched it depending on how the defender played it once you reached the outside. If the playside linebacker stood up or played zone, you gave the ball to your b back for runs up the middle.


Yes, the complete opposite of how the triple option is read in real life, but thats how you want to adapt if you want to run it with actual principles in 06. You're now just reading the linebackers, instead of the playside edge rusher. Also, I wouldn't worry so much about the auto-motion. A lot of the current triple option teams are going further and further away from utilizing motion as they continue to put thier best athletes at QB. If they do use motion it's to use that A back as a blocker/distraction with a full head of steam to give the QB an option to cut back up the middle and bust one long.

I’ve been running triple option using these principles in 06, and it has opened a new level of fun for me. I always defended 14 because it had a method to read defense and make them “wrong every time”, and now I can do it with the mighty 06!

[Culture Rot]

Re: What NCAA game best captures the triple option and all it's intricacies?

NCAA Football 06 - I don't care how good the gameplay or soundtrack is, I'm not playing a football game where the offensive line is the same size as the punters (and the body size sliders are broken even if you try to change them)