IF the gameplay is good enough, can it make up for what CFM appears to be lacking?

[killerx2]

Re: IF the gameplay is good enough, can it make up for what CFM appears to be lacking

No, they are interested in making the mode engaging and enjoyable for everyone, including those that are unfamiliar with the sport of football. This can be frustrating for hardcore users like us when they decide to rebuild things, sure, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with their approach.

A core tenet of the culture around Madden NFL has always been bringing new fans into the sport of NFL football. For example, Madden NFL's sales are growing rapidly in the United Kingdom as the NFL continues to promote its brand over there. The audience abroad by and large barely understands the difference between a run play or a pass play or even what the word "hike" means, much less restricted free agency, fifth-year rookie contract options, and so on. Should Tiburon make no attempt to reach this audience despite the obvious growing interest in the NFL and the product Tiburon is building? Should they not rebuild their Connected Franchise UI to make the entire experience easier to use for users unfamiliar with the sport, who get lost on the first few screens of Madden 15 CFM and quit the mode because they simply have no clue what to do because they lack the pre-existing institutional knowledge that we all here at OS take for granted?

I get what you're saying because i tried to play whatever fifa calls their franchise mode and had no idea what to do because i dont keep up with any leagues so i have no idea what the hell to do when im not playing the game and it turned me away from the game.

[Hooe]

Re: IF the gameplay is good enough, can it make up for what CFM appears to be lacking

Options. .

Right, we all would love options. I would love to have more options. I've been pretty vocal about wanting more things in CFM.

Unfortunately, options take time to implement and are probably lower priority than the things the creative directors of the game want to focus on, and there are only so many man-hours to allocate to different pieces of the game, so that can reasonably gets kicked down the road.

We can't have everything we want.

[Hooe]

Re: IF the gameplay is good enough, can it make up for what CFM appears to be lacking

I get what you're saying because i tried to play whatever fifa calls their franchise mode and had no idea what to do because i dont keep up with any leagues so i have no idea what the hell to do when im not playing the game and it turned me away from the game.

I am in the exact same boat, but with NBA 2K.

I know how to do the various moves it offers thanks to the myriad of dribble / post moves trainers, but I don't have any idea how to reasonably run a modern basketball offense, how to put everything all together, what each offensive set is trying to do. That keeps me away from that game.

Credit has to be given where it's due that they (Tiburon) are doing their damnedest to make the game easier to learn for people who don't have the background knowledge that we do. One they have that foundation down, then they can build on top of it.

This is probably going to be and actively is frustrating for a lot of us who want a lot more, but Tiburon is not wrong for going this route. The changes they make will benefit us core players as well, as we'll be able to get in and out of the options that exist faster and ultimately get more seasons out of the mode just by virtue of being able to move around faster.

[Toupal]

Re: IF the gameplay is good enough, can it make up for what CFM appears to be lacking

Right, we all would love options. I would love to have more options. I've been pretty vocal about wanting more things in CFM.

Unfortunately, options take time to implement and are probably lower priority than the things the creative directors of the game want to focus on, and there are only so many man-hours to allocate to different pieces of the game, so that can reasonably gets kicked down the road.

We can't have everything we want.

It is hard for me to sit back and say "Madden is taking their time on perfecting CFM." When NBA 2k15 created a whole new game mode similar to what we are all wanting with "myLeague" in just one year.

And I imagine it is a lot more complex making a season with 82 games, 4 best of 7 series for the playoffs, custom draft classes, scouting boards, player edits, league customization, and a more elaborate offseason to name a few things, as compared to what Madden has given us over the last 3 games.

Football is my favorite sport, and it is frustrating to see all these other games put it to shame, by implementing the things I have been BEGGING Madden to put in forever.

[bucky60]

Re: IF the gameplay is good enough, can it make up for what CFM appears to be lacking

Right, we all would love options. I would love to have more options. I've been pretty vocal about wanting more things in CFM.

Unfortunately, options take time to implement and are probably lower priority than the things the creative directors of the game want to focus on, and there are only so many man-hours to allocate to different pieces of the game, so that can reasonably gets kicked down the road.

We can't have everything we want.

Other sports franchises do it. What is holding EA/Tib back?

EDIT: Oops. Ignore this. I didn't see the post above until.

[Hooe]

Re: IF the gameplay is good enough, can it make up for what CFM appears to be lacking

It is hard for me to sit back and say "Madden is taking their time on perfecting CFM." When NBA 2k15 created a whole new game mode similar to what we are all wanting with "myLeague" in just one year.

And I imagine it is a lot more complex making a season with 82 games, 4 best of 7 series for the playoffs, custom draft classes, scouting boards, player edits, league customization, and a more elaborate offseason to name a few things, as compared to what Madden has given us over the last 3 games.

Football is my favorite sport, and it is frustrating to see all these other games put it to shame, by implementing the things I have been BEGGING Madden to put in forever.

I don't think an NFL franchise mode is any more or less elaborate than an NBA franchise mode, to be honest with you. There are more games, but the gist of it is the same: preseason, regular season, playoffs, postseason, contracts and roster mechanics, progression, regression, etc. All these things are common to both games.

As to why NBA 2K does things their way and Madden NFL does things their way - obviously I can't answer that. With respect to MyCareer or whatever, I would assume that Tiburon thinks there are bigger fish to fry with their game than to implement an entirely separate version of franchise mode, however, especially since they have spent the past several cycles building CFM and consolidating their tech and moving away from the separate-modes approach.

Tiburon is going to continue doing things their way, which has worked for them for 25 years or so, and the game is clearly trending upward, so as long as that continues why not 25 more? They aren't wrong for building the game they want to build.

tl;dr - nothing is holding Tiburon back, they just have their priorities aligned a little differently than what the hardcore crowd at OS most vocally wants.

[KOTC Wayne]

Re: IF the gameplay is good enough, can it make up for what CFM appears to be lacking

The biggest difference in NBA2K having their franchise mode on point without having to wait till 3 or 4 NBA2k's to come out like how we wait with Madden is COMPETITION! They have NBA Live lurking around the corner, a game that use to be the #1 game for simulation basketball. As long as Madden holds the exclusive license, I seriously doubt if Madden ever feel the urgency to stop twisting our arm.

[Junior Moe]

Re: IF the gameplay is good enough, can it make up for what CFM appears to be lacking

I am in the exact same boat, but with NBA 2K.

I know how to do the various moves it offers thanks to the myriad of dribble / post moves trainers, but I don't have any idea how to reasonably run a modern basketball offense, how to put everything all together, what each offensive set is trying to do. That keeps me away from that game.

Credit has to be given where it's due that they (Tiburon) are doing their damnedest to make the game easier to learn for people who don't have the background knowledge that we do. One they have that foundation down, then they can build on top of it.

This is probably going to be and actively is frustrating for a lot of us who want a lot more, but Tiburon is not wrong for going this route. The changes they make will benefit us core players as well, as we'll be able to get in and out of the options that exist faster and ultimately get more seasons out of the mode just by virtue of being able to move around faster.

I agree in a sense, but I don't think that Madden should be given credit for improving and moving towards a deeper, more comprehensive game that can be enjoyed by different swaths of gamers (sim, casual or what have you...). It's good. And I'm looking forward to M16. But it's 2015 and the other sports games (particularly The Show, NBA 2K15) have been delivering deep sports sims with the options (Madden's sliders either haven't worked or are reversed) to tune our experiences.

I feel the same way about The Show as you do NBA2K. That's fine. Different strokes for different folks. But the game provides enough (working) options for me to arcade the game up and get that balance between sim and fun that I want. I don't really feel that with Madden. That's why I put it down after about 2 months as opposed to 7 or 8 months with The Show and NBA2K. Madden is Madden and I know that. It's why I don't complain about it. I know from the last 10 years what Tiburon's take on NFL Football is. I know what I'm buying and there's been enough for me to justify the purchase. Tiburon isn't wrong; why upset the apple cart when you're making money? It's also why I don't bemoan MUT, or 2K's MyTeam and Park modes. The Madden team (I really like Rex and what he could mean for the series) should be commended for their move to more sim football. But for me personally, I don't think patting them on the back for trying to make the game more accessible is warranted until it has enough options to at least reasonably accommodate our different (albeit minority) tastes. It's not there for me yet.

[fballturkey]

Re: IF the gameplay is good enough, can it make up for what CFM appears to be lacking

We're so far away from a good CCM that we really don't need to get into the nitty gritty with 5th year rookie options and what not. Can't do formation subs, can't see FA ratings (!?), can't edit ratings, can't edit player names. Those are all things that casual fans would get a lot out of too (people like sticking their friends on other teams through the draft and seeing what they do.)

Then you get into things like progression/regression that effect everyone whether they notice it or not, and scouting which, from the sound of it, will be the worst scouting system in recent football game history. Let's fix all that stuff and then we can argue over whether better contract logic makes the cut or not.

[Toupal]

Re: IF the gameplay is good enough, can it make up for what CFM appears to be lacking

I don't think an NFL franchise mode is any more or less elaborate than an NBA franchise mode, to be honest with you. There are more games, but the gist of it is the same: preseason, regular season, playoffs, postseason, contracts and roster mechanics, progression, regression, etc. All these things are common to both games.

That is the problem. That is exactly how Madden approaches it. There is way more to a football year than just everything you listed above. The presentation is garbage, the commentary is no different from a regular exhibition game, there are no assistant coaches (so head coaches just cycle through teams), or no customization to allow me to play MY franchise, just to name a few things.

As to why NBA 2K does things their way and Madden NFL does things their way - obviously I can't answer that. With respect to MyCareer or whatever, I would assume that Tiburon thinks there are bigger fish to fry with their game than to implement an entirely separate version of franchise mode, however, especially since they have spent the past several cycles building CFM and consolidating their tech and moving away from the separate-modes approach.

Is it wrong if EA want to go a different direction than other games? No. But Madden has taken more steps backwards in a franchise mode than it has taken forward. I mean come on, the scouting that is coming out in Madden 16 is very similar to that in Madden 05. Giving us the ability to relocate teams? A much less customizable version of something that was in Madden 06.
And if by bigger fish to fry, you mean new cool features like "Things To Do Screen", "Visual Team Depth Chart, and "Owner Mode Finance Tuning", then I guess maybe Madden is getting a little too watered down for my taste.

Tiburon is going to continue doing things their way, which has worked for them for 25 years or so, and the game is clearly trending upward, so as long as that continues why not 25 more? They aren't wrong for building the game they want to build.

tl;dr - nothing is holding Tiburon back, they just have their priorities aligned a little differently than what the hardcore crowd at OS most vocally wants.

If by saying "Tiburon is going to continue doing things their way, which has worked for them for 25 years or so", you mean get an exclusive NFL license so you have no other competition to push you, then yes, keep up the good work. I would not disagree with that statement if it were 6 years ago, but the NFL has taken a lot of the fun out of the game as well. No EA and Tiburon are not solely to blame for the direction the game is going in. But I am a Madden fanatic. I have been with Madden since Madden 64, and I have bought it every year since that game came out. That is almost 18 years worth of Madden. At roughly $50 for each game, I have given nearly $900 of my money to EA. So sorry if I feel like EA owes me a little something by putting some things that myself and the community have been demanding for years.

[vc3616]

Re: IF the gameplay is good enough, can it make up for what CFM appears to be lacking

Having good gameplay is great and all but without a reason to play then there's no way to keep interest, I hate having to take control of every team so they don't draft a te number 1 overall or so the Vikings don't draft a qb with the first rd pick stupid stuff like that is irritating.

There is no challenge in building your team it's simple to find the best rookies not to mention they are way overrated, free agency isn't a challenge players like cam Jordan can be signed for 5 yr 15 mil contracts so salary cap isn't much of a concern winning and location etc doesn't matter Much I never know what's going on in the league because the commentary is bland, no gamebreak updates etc etc there is so much more to add.....

[Hooe]

Re: IF the gameplay is good enough, can it make up for what CFM appears to be lacking

That is the problem. That is exactly how Madden approaches it. There is way more to a football year than just everything you listed above. The presentation is garbage, the commentary is no different from a regular exhibition game, there are no assistant coaches (so head coaches just cycle through teams), or no customization to allow me to play MY franchise, just to name a few things.

Oh come on. I explicitly put "the gist of it" in there. You know what I meant, I was giving a bullet-point overview of what franchise modes require. Further, we can't have a reasonable discussion on the state of the game if you're going to insist that parts of it are "garbage". That's not a constructive opinion.

Is it wrong if EA want to go a different direction than other games? No. But Madden has taken more steps backwards in a franchise mode than it has taken forward. I mean come on, the scouting that is coming out in Madden 16 is very similar to that in Madden 05. Giving us the ability to relocate teams? A much less customizable version of something that was in Madden 06.
And if by bigger fish to fry, you mean new cool features like "Things To Do Screen", "Visual Team Depth Chart, and "Owner Mode Finance Tuning", then I guess maybe Madden is getting a little too watered down for my taste.

See, for me, onlining all of franchise mode so I could continue to play seasons of Madden with my friends who have moved away was the most important thing Tiburon and EA Austin ever did and the most important thing they can continue to support. No other sports game currently does online leagues as well as Madden NFL does, and historically only NCAA Football has done it better. Do I want all the details, bells, and whistles? Again, yes, very much yes. Making sure everything they already have and everything they ever add works online and offline is far more important to me, however, especially after how online franchise in Madden 10 through 12 was handled (read: not very well).

And yes, those new features like Things To Do and Visual Depth Chart you are belittling are important if you are a video game company interested in growing your audience. They aren't explicitly for us, per se, but they will still help us while also helping a brand-new audience. See my point about the growing popularity of the game in the UK from a few posts ago. OS isn't the only group of people who play Madden, and different groups of players have different needs to get the most out of the game. The sooner we all understand and respect that, the better.

If by saying "Tiburon is going to continue doing things their way, which has worked for them for 25 years or so", you mean get an exclusive NFL license so you have no other competition to push you, then yes, keep up the good work.

No. I explicitly don't mean that. The exclusive license arrangement isn't relevant to the discussion of CFM whatsoever, so that's the last we'll be talking about it.

But I am a Madden fanatic. I have been with Madden since Madden 64, and I have bought it every year since that game came out. That is almost 18 years worth of Madden. At roughly $50 for each game, I have given nearly $900 of my money to EA. So sorry if I feel like EA owes me a little something by putting some things that myself and the community have been demanding for years.

You're not owed anything for your $60 educated purchase other than a functional video game, a game you presumably educate yourself about before purchasing. If you repeatedly aren't satisfied with the game, you should consider no longer making it an annual purchase and reconsider whether it is worth your fanaticism.

[Toupal]

Re: IF the gameplay is good enough, can it make up for what CFM appears to be lacking

You're not owed anything for your $60 educated purchase other than a functional video game, a game you presumably educate yourself about before purchasing. If you repeatedly aren't satisfied with the game, you should consider no longer making it an annual purchase and reconsider whether it is worth your fanaticism.

You're right! I will just go off and play one of the other NFL video ga... Oh wait, I can't. I guess I will just stick to these forums and beat the same drum I've been beating for years until Madden finally listens to something myself, or a majority of the OS community have been asking for.

[jpdavis82]

Re: IF the gameplay is good enough, can it make up for what CFM appears to be lacking

You're right! I will just go off and play one of the other NFL video ga... Oh wait, I can't. I guess I will just stick to these forums and beat the same drum I've been beating for years until Madden finally listens to something myself, or a majority of the OS community have been asking for.

Or you could play the game and stop judging it off of YouTube videos that honestly aren't giving you a good idea of how the game really is. There's still a lot I saw in person that I haven't seen in these videos so far. Ok you said the commentary is no different than a exhibition game, I'm guessing you haven't played M15 CFM then because while it's not as good as it could be, there's a good amount of stat and team ranking references, playoff picture & upcoming schedule displays, etc... I'm sure 16 will expand upon that even further, presentation is the last thing in so they were still working on that stuff last time I played.

[roadman]

Re: IF the gameplay is good enough, can it make up for what CFM appears to be lacking

You're right! I will just go off and play one of the other NFL video ga... Oh wait, I can't. I guess I will just stick to these forums and beat the same drum I've been beating for years until Madden finally listens to something myself, or a majority of the OS community have been asking for.

And we are right back to the majority of OS, because the majority of OS doesn't make up the high % of fanbase that people think.

I'm suggesting people to vote with your voices at this website that I will link below. You can kick, scream and shout from the highest OS point in the hopes that a developer might see your post or you can vote and try to make a difference in numbers.

Case in point: people want full editing at OS, hasn't even cracked the top 10 at this website. People want to play or watch CPU vs CPU, it was ranked 58th a few days ago, since I posted the link, it's climbed to 53rd.

http://www.ranker.com/list/top-requested-madden-16-cfm-features-or-fixes/shopmaster?page=2&var=3