IF the gameplay is good enough, can it make up for what CFM appears to be lacking?

[bucky60]

Re: IF the gameplay is good enough, can it make up for what CFM appears to be lacking

I wasn't talking about CFM I'm talking about gameplay, but you have no idea about the direction of CFM if you're basing it off of 16.

If they are using XP/Goals as their base for progression, then I know the direction CFM is going in. Especially after listening to the Shopmaster/Kolbe interview.

[jeremym480]

Re: IF the gameplay is good enough, can it make up for what CFM appears to be lacking

Or you could play the game and stop judging it off of YouTube videos that honestly aren't giving you a good idea of how the game really is. There's still a lot I saw in person that I haven't seen in these videos so far. Ok you said the commentary is no different than a exhibition game, I'm guessing you haven't played M15 CFM then because while it's not as good as it could be, there's a good amount of stat and team ranking references, playoff picture & upcoming schedule displays, etc... I'm sure 16 will expand upon that even further, presentation is the last thing in so they were still working on that stuff last time I played.

I agreed with Bucky in my last post, however I also some what agree with you, as well. Gameplay wise you can see improvements in the videos that we've seen so far. I'm sure you can see/feel even more once you actually play the game.

CFM wise one can certainly be unhappy with their current direction. As I've detailed in the past I'm ready to start seeing some real additions over this tweak and re-tweak method they're currently doing. However, even though I'm not thrilled about these "improvements", I really do need to play the mode to truly judge it.

What I mean is last year there were things that definitely threw the game out of whack, especially offline. The main gripes like regression and confidence are supposedly fixed. However, one of the things that I had a problem with was how many Super Star QB's came out of each class. Because from my experience there were so many that you really didn't need to keep the Flacco's, Rivers', etc of the NFL around. And that problem actually caused another problem in that if you let a big $$ QB go for a rookie QB (with a small salary), then you really never had to worry about salary problems. In my OF I let Flacco go midway through the second year. In the first offseason I really had some tough roster decisions to make, but after I left Flacco go I kept everyone I wanted to keep for the next 4-5 years. Actually by Year 3 there were only a handful of real QB's left on their current team because everyone has drafted SS QB's. Which in turn left the FA Pool bare outside of a couple of 30+ vets.

Also, how's the CPU's AI both on and off the field? On the field speaks for itself and they seem to be heading in the right direction. However, off the field M15 really left a lot to be desired. One example: I'd love to see the AI be more aggressive with drafting. Offline if I discovered a 6th rounder that I had a 2nd round grade on, I knew I could wait a few rounds to the 4th (maybe later) to draft him, whereas online you would really have to take him last first or early second depending on the rest of the class. In Free Agency offline I was pretty much able to get any FA that I wanted as long as I had the funds. Basically what I'm saying is I'd love to play offline without making up a bunch of House Rules.... and I really need to play the game for myself or at least see a detailed blog of someones CFM impressions before judging it.

If we're going to be fair, there's some bloating in this list. Repetitive poll options that basically are asking for the same thing, things that are already in the game etc.

Let us trade draft picks? I mean this IS in the game and HAS been for some time.

Position Changes? this too is in the game, if they mean rework position changes then it should state that.

Assistant Coaches vs. Hire/Fire All Sorts of Coordinators = same thing

Plus we're getting a few of these in this poll already in M16 (combine stats, team practice) so those are also pushing down items that are pretty much confirmed as not being in the game yet.

I think my point is that when I load NBA2K I don't even have to freaking ask what's missing in the game. If it's something I play a lot (MyLeague) then it has EVERY setting or customizable option I could dream of wanting and that suits me as a player. If it's something I don't play a lot (MyPlayer) I don't play it and let other people have their enjoyment without complaint. This is why Madden frustrates me. It simply wants to cater to everyone while streamlining instead of simply going under the hood and offering robust options to the end user.

You make a lot of excellent points. Some of the options in the poll are either already in the game are about to be in the game and some of the options are redundant. Hopefully, EA (assuming that something that they even look at) takes that into consideration. Also, I have to say that some of the votes just seem like people trolling. I mean, 56 down votes for seeing rating at the Free Agency screen, really?

I also agree with you about 2k15. I still play MyLeague pretty much every night and outside of it I don't care about any other modes. Even with all of the depth, settings, sliders, etc. in MyLeague there's still a lot of room for improvement (Option to make Trades for CPU teams like in Association, 3 team trades, Bring Back D-League, etc.) However, looking at all of the things that MyLeague currently has versus CFM just shows how many things CFM (Player Editing, Player Morale, realistic contracts with RFA, Progressive Injury System, Manual Injury System, More In-Depth Scouting, etc.) is missing.

[dkp23]

Re: IF the gameplay is good enough, can it make up for what CFM appears to be lacking

If they are using XP/Goals as their base for progression, then I know the direction CFM is going in.

after playing owner mode the last two years and repeatedly complained how broken it was, sometimes i don't know if EA knows what direction they are going with CFM.

On topic though, if game play is GREAT, it trumps how bad these modes are, but EA rather build modes than actually focus on significant gameplay improvements.

The marketing phrase "build from the ground up" only can go so far before it gets old. EA went to the water well too often with that.

[jpdavis82]

Re: IF the gameplay is good enough, can it make up for what CFM appears to be lacking

Go back and listen to both interviews with Shop and Kolbe. Almost none of that is for the casual CFM fan. Also pay attention to when Kolbe talks about the list he got from us and the feedback we gave them. There's a nugget there that most people missed about the future.

If you guys want to speculate and think you know more about the direction of CFM then I do when I talked to Kolbe and John in person for over an hour each, that's fine but don't be surprised when you see what they reveal for CFM in the future versions.

[bucky60]

Re: IF the gameplay is good enough, can it make up for what CFM appears to be lacking

Go back and listen to both interviews with Shop and Kolbe. Almost none of that is for the casual CFM fan. Also pay attention to when Kolbe talks about the list he got from us and the feedback we gave them. There's a nugget there that most people missed about the future.

I don't need to go back and listen to those interviews. I heard Kolbe talk specifically on XP/Goals and the RPG system and he didn't talk about any alternate (realistic) options. That's all the nugget I need to know where CFM is going. I didn't miss anything in the interview. CFM is an unrealistic mode. That's all I need to know.

Many others like the XP/Goals stuff and they have every right to. But I don't. It's unrealistic. Whatever they add on to it, it's on top of an unrealistic base.

[jpdavis82]

Re: IF the gameplay is good enough, can it make up for what CFM appears to be lacking

I don't need to go back and listen to those interviews. I heard Kolbe talk specifically on XP/Goals and the RPG system and he didn't talk about any alternate (realistic) options. That's all the nugget I need to know where CFM is going. I didn't miss anything in the interview. CFM is an unrealistic mode. That's all I need to know.

Many others like the XP/Goals stuff and they have every right to. But I don't. It's unrealistic. Whatever they add on to it, it's on top of an unrealistic base.

Ok man ok. I just told you I talked to both Kolbe and john in person for an hour and you still are gonna act like you know more about this than me. I'm speechless.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: IF the gameplay is good enough, can it make up for what CFM appears to be lacking

Go back and listen to both interviews with Shop and Kolbe. Almost none of that is for the casual CFM fan. Also pay attention to when Kolbe talks about the list he got from us and the feedback we gave them. There's a nugget there that most people missed about the future.

If you guys want to speculate and think you know more about the direction of CFM then I do when I talked to Kolbe and John in person for over an hour each, that's fine but don't be surprised when you see what they reveal for CFM in the future versions.

No offense, but you say this every year. Your cheerleading for the madden franchise repeats over and over every time someone posts about something that they have been unhappy with for numerous years. It's all fine and good that these guys are talking about this, but we heard this before. Remember after madden 12 when Josh Looman said himself that they wanted to move Head Coach features into Madden? How did that work out? Also, expecting the average consumer to know all of these details about the development of a game is silly. Consumers shouldn't care this much about what goes on at Tiburon. This constant, yearly talk about going in this direction or that direction is kind of ridiculous. Do you care this much about what goes on at the factory or at the design lab of the car you bought? You just care about the fact that it meets your requirements as a consumer.

Talk is just that... talk. The real proof is in the product, which at the end of the day, is all anyone really cares about. It's not personal, it's not about being buddies with the devs or hating them, it's not about notoriety in the "community". It's about the direction of the game or game mode (CFM in this case). I think it's just a safer bet to judge the CFM direction and quality by what's been actually produced and shipped. That is the much clearer indication of where Tiburon is going with it than what you or some of their developers constantly say. If you like what they've done over the last several years then you will like CFM. If you don't like it, then it is safe to say you probably won't like it going forward.

[bucky60]

Re: IF the gameplay is good enough, can it make up for what CFM appears to be lacking

Ok man ok. I just told you I talked to both Kolbe and john in person for an hour and you still are gonna act like you know more about this than me. I'm speechless.

I don't care how long you talked and who you talked to, it doesn't change the fact that RPG/XP/Goals is not a realistic Model. Goals being at the base of progression is unrealistic. You may like the RPG stuff and like what is coming, and that's fine, you have every right to. But to say that RPG/XP/Goals is realistic is the very reason I don't find you very credible.

[jpdavis82]

Re: IF the gameplay is good enough, can it make up for what CFM appears to be lacking

I don't care how long you talked and who you talked to, it doesn't change the fact that RPG/XP/Goals is not a realistic Model. Goals being at the base of progression is unrealistic. You may like the RPG stuff and like what is coming, and that's fine, you have every right to. But to say that RPG/XP/Goals is realistic is the very reason I don't find you very credible.

That's fine if you don't find me credible, this is the first year I've known as much as I do now and it's not just coming from someone else. Fwiw alternatives to the xp system have been discussed by Kolbe and John and others, so keep thinking what you want to think and I'll go with the facts.

[bucky60]

Re: IF the gameplay is good enough, can it make up for what CFM appears to be lacking

That's fine if you don't find me credible, this is the first year I've known as much as I do now and it's not just coming from someone else. Fwiw alternatives to the xp system have been discussed by Kolbe and John and others, so keep thinking what you want to think and I'll go with the facts.

Fact is, realistic alternatives don't currently exist, and nobody at EA/Tib has publicly talked about any realistic alternatives. You have any evidence of specific plans? Timetable? If you do, then please share. I hope you are right, but the reasonable thing to do is wait and see and believe it if it actually happens.

I do really hope you are right about realistic alternatives to XP/Goals, especially with the direction gameplay is going in. But come back and talk about it when it's something concrete and not vaporware.

[jpdavis82]

Re: IF the gameplay is good enough, can it make up for what CFM appears to be lacking

Fact is, realistic alternatives don't currently exist, and nobody at EA/Tib has publicly talked about any realistic alternatives. You have any evidence of specific plans? Timetable? If you do, then please share. I hope you are right, but the reasonable thing to do is wait and see and believe it if it actually happens.

I do really hope you are right about realistic alternatives to XP/Goals, especially with the direction gameplay is going in. But come back and talk about it when it's something concrete and not vaporware.

Obviously what I do or don't know is not going to be shared. Bottom line is that I'm here for the community to try to help make CFM what you guys want it to be and I'm looking for your feedback and ideas and I'll take it where it needs to go.

[bucky60]

Re: IF the gameplay is good enough, can it make up for what CFM appears to be lacking

Obviously what I do or don't know is not going to be shared. Bottom line is that I'm here for the community to try to help make CFM what you guys want it to be and I'm looking for your feedback and ideas and I'll take it where it needs to go.

And I think everybody appreciates that, including myself.

Come back to me about CFM and realism (realistic alternative to XP/Goals/RPG) when you have something more concrete then "I heard a dev talk about it". I'll believe CFM is creating realistic options to XP/Goals/RPG when it actually happens. If it ever does happen, I could be in heaven. Though I'm mid 50's so I might just be in heaven before it actually happens (just some light-hearted humor).

[Toupal]

Re: IF the gameplay is good enough, can it make up for what CFM appears to be lacking

Going a bit OT here.

I've went round and round with people on this when it was posted originally. For me, the Consumerist is not a leading news worthy site for me. I'd put more emphasis on that report if Consumer Reports was behind it.

Just my 2 cents.

I do agree about the reaction.

All I am saying is, the consumers voted. Just like the same way people voted on that list that you keep sharing...

[jeremym480]

Re: IF the gameplay is good enough, can it make up for what CFM appears to be lacking

Go back and listen to both interviews with Shop and Kolbe. Almost none of that is for the casual CFM fan. Also pay attention to when Kolbe talks about the list he got from us and the feedback we gave them. There's a nugget there that most people missed about the future.

If you guys want to speculate and think you know more about the direction of CFM then I do when I talked to Kolbe and John in person for over an hour each, that's fine but don't be surprised when you see what they reveal for CFM in the future versions.

I gave the dev from "Other Football Game" some flak because in all of his interviews he basically saying a bunch of "we want" and "if's". To me all of this talk about the future of CFM is pretty similar situation which is basically I'm tired of the lip service and want to start seeing results.

M16 will be the 4th Year of CFM and it's time for them to show me something. I'm not talking about them slightly tweaking or improving this or that (that is already in the game), I'm talking about real significant ADDITIONS.

[Toupal]

Re: IF the gameplay is good enough, can it make up for what CFM appears to be lacking

I gave the dev from "Other Football Game" some flak because in all of his interviews he basically saying a bunch of "we want" and "if's". To me all of this talk about the future of CFM is pretty similar situation which is basically I'm tired of the lip service and want to start seeing results.

M16 will be the 4th Year of CFM and it's time for them to show me something. I'm not talking about them slightly tweaking or improving this or that (that is already in the game), I'm talking about real significant ADDITIONS.

Amen! I'm just think back to when CFM came out in Madden 13, and I can't think of hardly any big, actual improvements. It has been tweaking to scouting, XP, things like that.

Meanwhile, other video games are making entire game modes over 1 year. And the sad part is, they don't seem to run into the same problems or excuses EA runs into year after year.

I play The Show and NBA 2k all the time. I have never had to post on the forums because year in and year out they give me what I want. However with Madden, I feel like I have written a books worth trying to get them to put even just a little of customization to the rosters in CFM.