Is The New Aggressive Catch Overpowered? (Possible Tweak Coming In Tuning Update?)

[kjcheezhead]

Re: Madden 16: Is the new Aggressive Catch overpowered?

...so hit the button for RAC or let the computer catch it for you.

Again, so why is it necessary? Couldn't you catch it yourself or let the cpu do it for you in 15? What does having an option to aggressive catch a screen add other than a possible exploit or the possibility of hitting the "wrong" catch type?

[4thQtrStre5S]

Re: Madden 16: Is the new Aggressive Catch overpowered?

Again, so why is it necessary? Couldn't you catch it yourself or let the cpu do it for you in 15? What does having an option to aggressive catch a screen add other than a possible exploit or the possibility of hitting the "wrong" catch type?

More user control, yes? Adding more of a risk/reward system?

[Old Mr T]

Re: Madden 16: Is the new Aggressive Catch overpowered?

As a co-op player who enjoys playing WR/TE, I'm really pleased that they've introduced this option.

As with any new Madden feature there are concerns, namely:
* can I switch the catch prompt icons off?
* can I do an aggressive or possession catch whenever I like? i.e. if I misjudge the pass height/velocity then I can get punished for making the least effective reception or attempted reception
* will it be overpowered and make receiving too easy?

I haven't followed much Madden 16 build up, but I'd like DBs to have the same receiving options as offense. Every NFL season you see spectacular interceptions & knockdowns, so it'd be great to determine defensive outcomes based on DB receiving choices.

[jeb4056]

Re: Madden 16: Is the new Aggressive Catch overpowered?

I still don't see how this helps the situation. So you're throwing into the endzone. You can scratch rac catch off the list right away. Now it's a matter of ball placement. High jump balls or fade equal aggressive. Curl, low passes on a drag is a possession.

If we need to choose the correct catch animation to prevent the game from choosing a poor one, that's terrible programming by the developers. Otherwise its just a gimmick.

I guess I'd rather have the option to jump for the ball, then not have an option at all.

[teeteegardner]

Re: Madden 16: Is the new Aggressive Catch overpowered?

As with any new Madden feature there are concerns, namely:
* can I switch the catch prompt icons off?
* can I do an aggressive or possession catch whenever I like? i.e. if I misjudge the pass height/velocity then I can get punished for making the least effective reception or attempted reception
* will it be overpowered and make receiving too easy?

yea would like to get feedback for this. if we knew the answers to these itll basically make or break me buying the game.

[bcruise]

Re: Madden 16: Is the new Aggressive Catch overpowered?

yea would like to get feedback for this. if we knew the answers to these itll basically make or break me buying the game.

First two are yes. I've seen streams with the prompts turned off, and yes - assuming you have time to actually press the catch button before a catch animation starts, you'd probably be able to attempt any catch type.

Third question is not going to be answered that quickly or easily. So much more goes into it than just guys labbing in practice mode.

[RexDEAFootball]

Re: Madden 16: Is the new Aggressive Catch overpowered?

I don't know if it's overpowered. I don't understand the need for different catch types. Why would you aggressive catch a crossing route over the middle where mlbs and safeties would kill a wr high pointing the pass? Why would you possession catch a deep pass? Why would you hit RAC on a curl route?

I haven't seen a feature scream gimmick this much since the old spice swagger rating.

"Why would you aggressive catch a crossing route"
You would aggressive catch a crossing route when a DB on the backside or over the top is breaking on the ball (vs. going for a knockout with play receiver). I think one key point here that people keep forgetting: The aggressive catch and RAC catch mechanic ALTER THE RECEIVERS PATH TO THE BALL. For years you guys have been asking for a mechanic so that receivers can 'fight back to the ball'. The aggressive catch is that mechanic. RAC's move the receiver up the field. Aggressive Catches come back to the ball. Hope that helps clear things up.

"Why would you possession catch a deep pass?"
If it is the back of the end zone and you need to trigger a 'get your feet down' catch, you would use possession on a deep pass.

"Why would you hit RAC on a curl route?"
Glad you asked! Remember in past Madden's where you throw a curl route and the receiver 'comes back' to the ball and you lose 3 yards. So in M16, if that curl is open, use the RAC mechanic to A) prevent the receiver from coming back to the ball and B) Catch the curl and quickly turn up field to gain yards.

[The JareBear]

Re: Madden 16: Is the new Aggressive Catch overpowered?

"Why would you aggressive catch a crossing route"
You would aggressive catch a crossing route when a DB on the backside or over the top is breaking on the ball (vs. going for a knockout with play receiver). I think one key point here that people keep forgetting: The aggressive catch and RAC catch mechanic ALTER THE RECEIVERS PATH TO THE BALL. For years you guys have been asking for a mechanic so that receivers can 'fight back to the ball'. The aggressive catch is that mechanic. RAC's move the receiver up the field. Aggressive Catches come back to the ball. Hope that helps clear things up.

"Why would you possession catch a deep pass?"
If it is the back of the end zone and you need to trigger a 'get your feet down' catch, you would use possession on a deep pass.

"Why would you hit RAC on a curl route?"
Glad you asked! Remember in past Madden's where you throw a curl route and the receiver 'comes back' to the ball and you lose 3 yards. So in M16, if that curl is open, use the RAC mechanic to A) prevent the receiver from coming back to the ball and B) Catch the curl and quickly turn up field to gain yards.

You are definitely right Rex, we have wanted our WRs to fight for the ball for a long time. I applaud the effort your team has put in to give us tools to make WRs dangerous again, truly.

For me, and I think a few others as well, it isn't that we don't like being able to go up and Moss someone, it's just concern regarding the balance. I am just being honest, not trying to be rude or confrontational, but the majority of aggressive catch attempts I have seen in all the videos have been completed, and the one handed crazy OBJ catches are popping up way too often in my very humble opinion.

I don't think the new catching system is bad. I think it is a great step forward, as well as the DB interactions/animations to go with them, I just want balance. I want a balanced game. Last year the pass rush was overpowered and now, instead of balancing it, in all the user H2H games I have seen it (the pass rush) looks severely nerfed. It bothers me because guys rarely leave HB or TE in to help pass protect and they wont get rid of the ball yet they wonder why they are getting sacked.

Subtle tuning, as opposed to widespread nuking of an aspect of the game, can go a long way for Madden, in my opinion.

I don't think anyone in this thread already wants you to get rid of aggressive catches, we just want a fair, balance, realistic outcome. Gameplay that looks like what we see on Sundays.

As always, thank you very much for taking the time to visit our forum and interact with the sim community here. Truly appreciate it.

[BleedGreen710]

Re: Madden 16: Is the new Aggressive Catch overpowered?

everytime Rex says something, it makes me more and more excited for the game

thanks for replying to this thread man we appreciate it

[TTD71]

Re: Madden 16: Is the new Aggressive Catch overpowered?

For anyone who has been around the block a few times, you already KNOW the answer to the OP question...will it be OP?
OF COURSE IT WILL!!!

Think back to things like the NCAA Gamebreaker feature....or the Home Field Advantage....or Playmaker Control in '04....or Hit Stick 1.0....or Hit Stick 2.0...or Vision Cone...or any animation based catches ("JetPack", "Rocket Catch", "Face Catch", etc.)...or just about any other damn new feature over the past 20 years or so. They are ALWAYS over powered when they are introduced; without failure, whether its true or not, people with claim it is over-powered and unfair and breaking the game and the hive-mind of the forums will split into factions that believe one way or the other, but are certain that those who do not agree are fools, agents of Satan or foolish agents of Satan.

Madden is Madden. Period. Full stop.

I don't say all of this as "news" or to slam the game either...as I have played over 4,000 head-to-head games (which breaks down to 125 complete 24 hours DAYS of non-stop play) since 2008 (really further than that, I just don't know how many games I played earlier than '08), so clearly I have gotten my entertainment value from those purchases. I have also gotten my aggravation, frustration and soul-crushing loss of faith in humanity as well.

I have seen absolutely nothing to date that would make me believe anything but the catching being a complete mess and making offense, which was already too easy, even easier this year. But then again, I loathe the spread option in college and would prefer to watch a 14-10 slugfest to a 58-57, 3OT "thriller"...so I'm just old enough now to officially be an anachronism!

[graphster21]

Re: Madden 16: Is the new Aggressive Catch overpowered?

I think that adding the new catch mechanics are good -- even necessary. It was frustrating last year when it felt unresponsive in terms of getting the WR to attempt the animation that you wanted. Both in terms of the deep balls/fades, and in terms of WR's catching short passes with no defenders around and then stumbling out of bounds instead of turning upfield. That felt like the ratings did not always translate to the on-field result.

But it does seem like the aggressive catching is a bit over-effective, in terms of the WR's completing the catch. Even for elite WR's, some of these catches should be relatively rare, even against bad CBs (or air). Again, it's good that there's a way to trigger some of these animations, but it seems like they are over-effective in terms of the WR completing very difficult catches. This is based on what I have seen in videos and streams -- not just in draft champions but in other modes, like practice mode and offline vs the CPU.

It is unclear how easily it can be countered by good user play on defense, but it still presents an issue when playing against the computer. Kind of ruins the game if you know that you can always complete streaks or fades whenever you need a play.

[BleedGreen710]

Re: Madden 16: Is the new Aggressive Catch overpowered?

or just about any other damn new feature over the past 20 years or so. They are ALWAYS over powered when they are introduced; without failure

idk man I thought the QB vision cone was pretty balanced

kinda funny thats the one thing that got scrapped immediately tho lol

[The JareBear]

Re: Madden 16: Is the new Aggressive Catch overpowered?

I think that adding the new catch mechanics are good -- even necessary. It was frustrating last year when it felt unresponsive in terms of getting the WR to attempt the animation that you wanted. Both in terms of the deep balls/fades, and in terms of WR's catching short passes with no defenders around and then stumbling out of bounds instead of turning upfield. That felt like the ratings did not always translate to the on-field result.

But it does seem like the aggressive catching is a bit over-effective, in terms of the WR's completing the catch. Even for elite WR's, some of these catches should be relatively rare, even against bad CBs (or air). Again, it's good that there's a way to trigger some of these animations, but it seems like they are over-effective in terms of the WR completing very difficult catches. This is based on what I have seen in videos and streams -- not just in draft champions but in other modes, like practice mode and offline vs the CPU.

It is unclear how easily it can be countered by good user play on defense, but it still presents an issue when playing against the computer. Kind of ruins the game if you know that you can always complete streaks or fades whenever you need a play.

True, I agree.

We will see how it turns out. I hope for the no-switch leagues out there the AI controlled DBs play man more often than play ball

[BleedGreen710]

Re: Madden 16: Is the new Aggressive Catch overpowered?

I think one key point here that people keep forgetting: The aggressive catch and RAC catch mechanic ALTER THE RECEIVERS PATH TO THE BALL. For years you guys have been asking for a mechanic so that receivers can 'fight back to the ball'. The aggressive catch is that mechanic. RAC's move the receiver up the field. Aggressive Catches come back to the ball. Hope that helps clear things up.

Yeah, a way to make receivers react more aggressively towards the ball was long overdue. But i dont think anyone asked for more 1 handed catches and ridiculous animations that you end up seeing multiple times a game. I think thats where you lost some people with this new feature. Definitely a step in the right direction though.

[kjcheezhead]

Re: Madden 16: Is the new Aggressive Catch overpowered?

"Why would you aggressive catch a crossing route"
You would aggressive catch a crossing route when a DB on the backside or over the top is breaking on the ball (vs. going for a knockout with play receiver). I think one key point here that people keep forgetting: The aggressive catch and RAC catch mechanic ALTER THE RECEIVERS PATH TO THE BALL. For years you guys have been asking for a mechanic so that receivers can 'fight back to the ball'. The aggressive catch is that mechanic. RAC's move the receiver up the field. Aggressive Catches come back to the ball. Hope that helps clear things up.

"Why would you possession catch a deep pass?"
If it is the back of the end zone and you need to trigger a 'get your feet down' catch, you would use possession on a deep pass.

"Why would you hit RAC on a curl route?"
Glad you asked! Remember in past Madden's where you throw a curl route and the receiver 'comes back' to the ball and you lose 3 yards. So in M16, if that curl is open, use the RAC mechanic to A) prevent the receiver from coming back to the ball and B) Catch the curl and quickly turn up field to gain yards.

Thanks for clarifying. I appreciate you fixed wrs coming back for curl routes and not turning upfield like in past games. I question whether different catch types were needed vs having them trigger situationally but at least I have a better understanding now.