Is The New Aggressive Catch Overpowered? (Possible Tweak Coming In Tuning Update?)

[graphster21]

Re: Madden 16: Is the new Aggressive Catch overpowered?

On the flip side, I do think that the new options on defense are a really big step in the right direction, and I am glad to see that be added. Even more frustrating than the WR animations last year was (lack of) the DB animations, which felt really inconsistent. It's also nice that there's now a way to try and knock the ball out on contact more consistently.

[TTD71]

Re: Madden 16: Is the new Aggressive Catch overpowered?

Yeah, a way to make receivers react more aggressively towards the ball was long overdue. But i dont think anyone asked for more 1 handed catches and ridiculous animations that you end up seeing multiple times a game. I think thats where you lost some people with this new feature. Definitely a step in the right direction though.

The only way I can see this remotely positively - receivers react more aggressively towards the ball - is offline against the CPU. The problem is when you give head-to-head players tools to specifically "trigger" an animation, it will get abused to hell. Now, if the defense ALSO gets defenders react more aggressively towards the ball AND/OR receiver based on choice of the user...then that is at least offering a fighting chance.

My problem with new features is that they tend to be binary when rolled out - either "+" or "-", "1" or "2" and they need to be much more Paper-Rock-Scissors to keep the outcomes from becoming predictable or worse manipulated. Rocket catching, jet packing, face catching....whatever else someone wants to call it, all had a common problem - they were triggered animations. When the outcome is solely dependant on the timing of a button push and divorced from the ability of the QB, WR and DB, then you have a problem.

In my Rock-Paper-Scissors example, think of it as something like this: a great WR (rock) beats a middling DB (scissors) but needs something more to beat a great DB (paper). But a great DB (paper) can cover a decent WR (rock), but gets sliced up by a great QB (scissors). (Sorry, those puns are pretty bad...)

The idea is that outcomes that focus too much on canned determinations - ie. - a "spectacular catch" animation available to WR with a certain jump and SPC catch rating - is how Brian Finneran is a "legend". That is an insult to guys like Torry Holt, Isaac Bruce, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, and dozens of other WRs that were 10x the actual player that Fineran was....yet he is a "legend" in Madden 16...that should really tell you something about the new feature right there.

[D81SKINS]

Re: Madden 16: Is the new Aggressive Catch overpowered?

I like having these options on offense and defense. I see it bringing more strategy and game planning than not.
Defenses won't be able to just stack the box and still get away with good coverage deep ie. Cover 3
We may even have to spotlight a big play WR now to slow them down.

I could see a scenario play out were, big play WR gets 2 big catches in a row and then on the 3rd try(say it's in the redzone and they are going for the TD).
The defense adjusts and plays the WR, knocks the ball up and forces either an incomplete and they settle for 3 or better yet an Int!

If it's all based on players ratings, positioning, timing etc. How can we complain about the outcome. Well if it's not in our favor I guess it would be easy to complain.

I'm excited for this year's Madden and the direction it's going!
Can't wait to start practicing and making any adjustments to sliders for my franchise.

[jfsolo]

Re: Madden 16: Is the new Aggressive Catch overpowered?

Thanks for clarifying. I appreciate you fixed wrs coming back for curl routes and not turning upfield like in past games. I question whether different catch types were needed vs having them trigger situationally but at least I have a better understanding now.

I think that this mechanic will actually allow the catches to trigger situationally better than any Madden ever before. It should allow the User team CPU receivers and the CPU opponent receivers to play more realistically than ever before. In the past catches would quite often trigger that were wildly contextually inappropriate.

The thing is, Madden is never going to add a new core mechanic that can't be manually controlled by the User. Most of the people who play Madden absolutely want to have as much control as possible in every aspect of the game.

Now it seems that aggressive catch component of the mechanic may be too successful on default settings, but that is a separate issue from the the positives that the mechanic adds to the game.

Looking at a lot of the vids that have been released, User error has been the cause of much failure in the game, especially on the defensive side of the ball, where people are in love with going for the pick on every pass play, but also including choosing wrong types of receptions when the CPU would have chosen the right one. They're not complaining though, they're happy as a clam because they got to make the choice of how to play the ball.

I really think that for people like me, a User vs CPU player, who plays straight up sim style football adjusting the sliders to help shore up holes in the CPU's game, the new catching mechanic is going to contribute to producing a very solid gaming experience.

[BleedGreen710]

Re: Madden 16: Is the new Aggressive Catch overpowered?

Fineran was....yet he is a "legend" in Madden 16...that should really tell you something about the new feature right there.

to be fair, he was a legend on an earlier version too (whatever version had that madden 25th anniversary team)

[Cowboy008]

Re: Madden 16: Is the new Aggressive Catch overpowered?

I think that this mechanic will actually allow the catches to trigger situationally better than any Madden ever before. It should allow the User team CPU receivers and the CPU opponent receivers to play more realistically than ever before. In the past catches would quite often trigger that were wildly contextually inappropriate.

The thing is, Madden is never going to add a new core mechanic that can't be manually controlled by the User. Most of the people who play Madden absolutely want to have as much control as possible in every aspect of the game.

Now it seems that aggressive catch component of the mechanic may be too successful on default settings, but that is a separate issue from the the positives that the mechanic adds to the game.

Looking at a lot of the vids that have been released, User error has been the cause of much failure in the game, especially on the defensive side of the ball, where people are in love with going for the pick on every pass play, but also including choosing wrong types of receptions when the CPU would have chosen the right one. They're not complaining though, they're happy as a clam because they got to make the choice of how to play the ball.

I really think that for people like me, a User vs CPU player, who plays straight up sim style football adjusting the sliders to help shore up holes in the CPU's game, the new catching mechanic is going to contribute to producing a very solid gaming experience.

The thing is though I was watching a stream and the guy was playing a CFM game on All-Madden and was just throwing it deep and his receivers came down with it. So the question is will the cpu always go for a pick or will they try to play the receiver?

[The JareBear]

Re: Madden 16: Is the new Aggressive Catch overpowered?

The thing is though I was watching a stream and the guy was playing a CFM game on All-Madden and was just throwing it deep and his receivers came down with it. So the question is will the cpu always go for a pick or will they try to play the receiver?

This, my friend, is a very good question. I think AI controlled DBs programmed to play the man unless they have a clear pick on high point passes could go a long way for this mechanic to work out fairly

[kjcheezhead]

Re: Madden 16: Is the new Aggressive Catch overpowered?

I think that this mechanic will actually allow the catches to trigger situationally better than any Madden ever before. It should allow the User team CPU receivers and the CPU opponent receivers to play more realistically than ever before. In the past catches would quite often trigger that were wildly contextually inappropriate.

The thing is, Madden is never going to add a new core mechanic that can't be manually controlled by the User. Most of the people who play Madden absolutely want to have as much control as possible in every aspect of the game.

Now it seems that aggressive catch component of the mechanic may be too successful on default settings, but that is a separate issue from the the positives that the mechanic adds to the game.

Looking at a lot of the vids that have been released, User error has been the cause of much failure in the game, especially on the defensive side of the ball, where people are in love with going for the pick on every pass play, but also including choosing wrong types of receptions when the CPU would have chosen the right one. They're not complaining though, they're happy as a clam because they got to make the choice of how to play the ball.

I really think that for people like me, a User vs CPU player, who plays straight up sim style football adjusting the sliders to help shore up holes in the CPU's game, the new catching mechanic is going to contribute to producing a very solid gaming experience.

I personally believe there is such a thing as too much user control. Past madden have sacrificed realism for user input and that's too often caused problems like zig zag running and psychic defenders that instantly react to plays they have no right to.

It keeps madden a simcade game, maddenball instead of football.

[roadman]

Re: Madden 16: Is the new Aggressive Catch overpowered?

I personally believe there is such a thing as too much user control. Past madden have sacrificed realism for user input and that's too often caused problems like zig zag running and psychic defenders that instantly react to plays they have no right to.

It keeps madden a simcade game, maddenball instead of football.

I agree, out of the box, there is maddenball.

Slider adjustments allow me to play more sim.

[D81SKINS]

Re: Madden 16: Is the new Aggressive Catch overpowered?

The more this discussion goes on, the more I'm thinking of sliders being a big factor in how our offline or online vs cpu chise will go.

I'm anxious to find out, does PRT allow for more DBs playing the man? Does the Int slider = more DBs going for the Int or does it just make them smarter in playing the WR and the INT better?

Man you guys got me licking my chops! I'm ready to get my Xbox one w/ Madden bundle now!

[jfsolo]

Re: Madden 16: Is the new Aggressive Catch overpowered?

I personally believe there is such a thing as too much user control. Past madden have sacrificed realism for user input and that's too often caused problems like zig zag running and psychic defenders that instantly react to plays they have no right to.

It keeps madden a simcade game, maddenball instead of football.

I agree, out of the box, there is maddenball.

Slider adjustments allow me to play more sim.

I totally agree, but I know that that there are some aspects of Madden that will never change. So I always just hope for the opportunity to tune it back to reality as closely as I can.

[RexDEAFootball]

Re: Madden 16: Is the new Aggressive Catch overpowered?

This video represents a much more realistic look at what is actually going on and shows off some counter strategies to the aggressive catch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXsNnLP5Seg&feature=youtu.be

[BleedGreen710]

Re: Madden 16: Is the new Aggressive Catch overpowered?

This video represents a much more realistic look at what is actually going on and shows off some counter strategies to the aggressive catch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXsN...ature=youtu.be

the defense looked great in that video, but thats only specifically for fade routes, which I dont think i've seen any complaints about

in all the vids i've seen jump balls play out much different when not in a goaline situation (as u would expect really).

[charter04]

Re: Madden 16: Is the new Aggressive Catch overpowered?

This video represents a much more realistic look at what is actually going on and shows off some counter strategies to the aggressive catch.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXsN...ature=youtu.be

Really appreciate you interacting with us Rex. The guys on here don't always agree with everything but, that's just the passion guys have. It's awesome that you care enough to converse. I hope to see more of this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[2_headedmonster]

Re: Madden 16: Is the new Aggressive Catch overpowered?

i have my concerns about the implementation of the mechanic, but i will make two points:

1) One of my pet peeves with the madden franchise for the longest was the terrible lack of catching animations and starting with Madden 15 that problem has been aggressively addressed. I can respect a regime that holds true to their word when they say they are going to tackle a problem and at the least make an earnest attempt. It seems as if Madden 16 has added even more catch animations to keep things fresh.

2) I like that this 'fight for the ball' stuff has a more realistic look to the interactions besides all the one handed hero catches. Since the removal of the offensive strafe, if you didnt do some controller wizardry ( face catch, rocket catch, swerve catch) then the DB had a 70/30 right to ownership of a deep ball. They could square up, strafe, and launch themselves in a way that the wide receiver just couldn't compete with. I like that thats been addressed , even if a patch might have to balance it a bit.

what i dont like is that it doesn't seem very organic at the moment, but i dont have a control in my hand or hours to experiment, so time will tell.