As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

[RogerDodger]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

Until they/if they bring back the T&R trait, I think it's a lost cause.
Playing Madden 25 watching how the DPP & T&R work so much better for the CPU.
I know you guys are tired of hearing about 25, but,
If my Internet was better, I'd share some videos of how the CPU ai (specifically dual threat qbs) take off and elude the pass rush.
I'm only avg 2-3 sacks per game as well. All-Pro w/ Int slider 25 on both.
See the DPP changes throughout the game on 25.
Also, I turned acc. Clock off and 9mins qtrs.
I see more rotation w/ acc clock off. The fatigue doesn't have enough time to recover.

Madden 25 was probably the time when they decided to abandon the single player experience altogether and go all-in on the H2H experience saving themselves a buck or two addressing CPU AI deficiencies.

[RogerDodger]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

It doesn't fix some core issues. It can help them, but some believe it can fix everything. I wouldn't think it can help with AI intelligence but I could be wrong.


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I'm sure you are correct, it doesn't deal with the core problem but the point is that somebody was able to at least make a positive improvement in gameplay that somehow EA themselves couldn't manage to.

[kiddlex]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

In the short time the game has been available, somebody has done EA's job for them and used sliders to fix the game? How and why can't they do that themselves?

The game hasn't officially dropped. From everything I've seen and played the last few years we are in great hands with this Dev team. Have faith, I have a sneaking suspicion when all is said and done this will be the GOAT Madden gameplay wise, and I've played them all.

[aholbert32]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

First, no one was defending the game just now. I've been watching Mills play CFM with Josh's settings for hours for the past 3 days and we haven't seen these issues. QB awareness has been pretty good abeit not perfect obviously.

Second, I'm well aware that these issues still exist as I was the one who posted THIS thread yesterday:

http://forums.operationsports.com/forums/madden-nfl-football/913478-two-videos-need-addressed-concerning.html

So I wasn't "defending the game". Again, we're trying to figure out where the issue lies with not only QB awareness but also DEFENSIVE awareness, because the last thing we want is for the devs to just throw a patch out and it ends up fixing one thing but breaking 3 other things.

I think Josh's settings matter but I did see this kind of play from a backup QB (Austin Davis). He did it twice and it was because his first target got open right as he threw it. When Wilson was in a similar situation, he ran because no one was open.


It may be an awareness thing.

Also Josh's settings are designed to get better play calling (less 4 verts) not better QB behavior.

Here is what I discovered playing yesterday. NO QB should have "Oblivious' as a sense pressure trait. If they do, they will take sacks. So I'm changing all of the QBs who have oblivious. More testing to come.

[young22]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

The question should be,
What would it take for EA/Tiburon to bring back those "core" CPU QB traits that they had on last gen?

It's night and Day playing VS the CPU QB w/ those special dual threat traits in M25 vs M17, and sad to say, the videos of the CPU QB play looks exactly the same (w/ a few more incompletes) on M18.
Another thing I noticed on M25,
The Traits are fluid based on the QB pressures, hits, sacks, completions, ints, etc.
The DPP changes throughout the game. So, if the qb is getting pressured alot, he could go from ideal in the pocket, to trigger happy.
And Vice Versa, if your not getting pressure.

So the DPP on last Gen was working so well and giving these CPU QB's a more life-like feel.
Don't take my word on it, test it for yourselves.

Madden 12 was the greatest Madden ever. CPU was actually good, QB would run. Even the slow guys would take off if nothing was there. And guys like Vick? Lethal.

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[JoshC1977]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

http://forums.operationsports.com/fo...7-sliders.html

I hear this is working like it did for last year making playcalling better

I want to be clear here....

A) I have not touched the game yet so I will not make any judgments until I actually play it.
B) What I am aware of people testing out is not the actual slider setup, but the gameplanning workaround (i.e. setting both user and CPU gameplans to "Red Zone Offense" and "Red Zone Defense"). This was ONLY done in M17 to keep the CPU from over-using the "gameplan" plays and to prompt more variety in their play-calling; it may work for M18 as well....but again, I will wait until I have first-hand experience.

[D81SKINS]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

I think Josh's settings matter but I did see this kind of play from a backup QB (Austin Davis). He did it twice and it was because his first target got open right as he threw it. When Wilson was in a similar situation, he ran because no one was open.


It may be an awareness thing.

Also Josh's settings are designed to get better play calling (less 4 verts) not better QB behavior.

Here is what I discovered playing yesterday. NO QB should have "Oblivious' as a sense pressure trait. If they do, they will take sacks. So I'm changing all of the QBs who have oblivious. More testing to come.

See in M25, if they are "Oblivious" by default, and they start taking sacks/hits, they would adjust to be balanced or even paranoid. So, the CPU ai was more fluid.
Now, I'm afraid, not so much.

[RogerDodger]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

The game hasn't officially dropped. From everything I've seen and played the last few years we are in great hands with this Dev team. Have faith, I have a sneaking suspicion when all is said and done this will be the GOAT Madden gameplay wise, and I've played them all.

I've played them all, at least since Madden 97. Sadly, the lack of franchise improvements will influence my assessment of this version whether the AI is eventually improved or not. Graphically, it's gorgeous though, no doubt it's the best looking ever.

[aholbert32]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

See in M25, if they are "Oblivious" by default, and they start taking sacks/hits, they would adjust to be balanced or even paranoid. So, the CPU ai was more fluid.
Now, I'm afraid, not so much.

That doesnt matter to me given that we can edit the rosters.

[young22]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

Just popped in M12. First play, Vick drops back, takes off, 75 yard score. Didn't even go through progressions. It looked like he looked at his primary and took off. This will never happen in Madden these days.

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[kehlis]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

Just popped in M12. First play, Vick drops back, takes off, 75 yard score. Didn't even go through progressions. It looked like he looked at his primary and took off. This will never happen in Madden these days.

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How often does that happen in real life these days?

Care to share the most recent example?

[schnaidt1]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

How often does that happen in real life these days?

Care to share the most recent example?

ill bite..

https://youtu.be/CMq4wKl3xl8

https://youtu.be/lPd1jTRcIjg

https://youtu.be/WAhiy9XfwdU

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[kehlis]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

ill bite..

https://youtu.be/CMq4wKl3xl8

https://youtu.be/lPd1jTRcIjg

https://youtu.be/WAhiy9XfwdU

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To preface this, I've already acknowledged a problem with the early build videos so I don't disagree with the perceived problem. I've also seen videos with the day one patch that show enough evidence that it might not be as much of a concern as we all initially thought.

I appreciate the links and the links but none of them really illustrate the concern. Your first video is a great example but that's from 2015 which just illustrates that it doesn't happen often so you are essentially making an argument against yourself.

The concern isn't that QB's can't run, it's that they don't have pocket awareness or move out when pressure comes.

Most of the "best runs of" videos were QB's getting out of broken plays and were less than 30 yards(at most). Getting out of broken plays isn't the current concern.

Some of those videos were even designed running plays which again, isn't a concern (I understand you didn't put the montage of video's together).

So all in all, you showed one video from 2015 where a QB made a quick read and took off and scored which was the post I responded to.

So again I ask, to you this time, how often does that specific scenario actually happen?

[young22]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

How often does that happen in real life these days?

Care to share the most recent example?

It doesn't happen every game on M12. But it will never ever happen on 17, or 18 from what I've seen. On 12, guys move, and will take off.

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[Sooners319]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

To preface this, I've already acknowledged a problem with the early build videos so I don't disagree with the perceived problem. I've also seen videos with the day one patch that show enough evidence that it might not be as much of a concern as we all initially thought.



I appreciate the links and the links but none of them really illustrate the concern. Your first video is a great example but that's from 2015 which just illustrates that it doesn't happen often so you are essentially making an argument against yourself.



The concern isn't that QB's can't run, it's that they don't have pocket awareness or move out when pressure comes.



Most of the "best runs of" videos were QB's getting out of broken plays and were less than 30 yards(at most). Getting out of broken plays isn't the current concern.



Some of those videos were even designed running plays which again, isn't a concern (I understand you didn't put the montage of video's together).



So all in all, you showed one video from 2015 where a QB made a quick read and took off and scored which was the post I responded to.



So again I ask, to you this time, how often does that specific scenario actually happen?

I think we can point out how often that a real QB will escape pressure and take off and acknowledge that it happens at a significantly higher rate than what you see in M18.

I mean, if we wanted to go that route (which I'm sure wasn't your exact intention), how often to we see QB's sit in the pocket for 5+ seconds until a sack occurs?


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