As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

[infemous]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

Having exclusive agreements and the legal recourse to squash competition is not capitalist. It is anti capitalist. Someone posted that a million dollar investment in programmers is prohibitive. That is only because they can prevent anyone else from making a game. A million dollars is nothing to ea. At 60 bucks a game that 16,000 units. If 2k was coming out with a nfl game next year they would be willing to sink 50 million into the game. They don't listen to their most passionate customers for that reason. They don't have to. If nfl video games were operating under a capitalist system they would go out of business not listening to their customers. Remember the nfl is not capitalist either. It operates on a socialism for billionaires system.

true I got it twisted between the oligarchy that controls society with its marketed name capitalism lol

I should have said EA as a big nasty corporation, which is exactly what the NFL is too.

[Speedy]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

Thats millions of dollars though. Lets say they hired 10 programmers to work on cleaning up Madden's code. The lowest level software engineer at EA makes around 80k. The next level up makes about 90k. Now with benefits like health insurance, EA probably pays 100k per programmer.

https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Ele...ries-E1628.htm

So just for those 10 programmers, we are at 1 million in additional salary. Now some things dont require new animations like the statue AI but something like eliminating all suction block occurrences could require new OL/DL interactions and Mo Cap time.

Very true...I didnt think of the FTE cost to change current coding, just the cost of graphics and actors.

Great point.

So then, yes...it definitely would have to be part of the project plan for a given year's development cycle as that's a substantial cost that would have to be justified with forecasted/expected revenue (versus the big features done each year).

[pote14]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

Let's do more than hope. What do we want to see?

We want to see classic pocket passers (Brady, Big Ben, Brees, Eli etc) stay in pocket, but slide, move around, "feel" the pressure and react. We want the in between guys, (Tannehill, Jameis) to do the same but to get outside the pocket and run when necessary. And we want the true mobile guys (Wilson, Mariota, Cam) to take off and punish us with legs.

Its more than just running or moving, its knowing when to do that.

And this is all coupled with accuracy. As any of the above move, whether its run, slide, or roll out, accuracy has to go down. And for that to mean anything, there has to be SIGNIFICANT difference in accuracy between elites and scrubs.

Someone (rudy?) posted a video last year of launch and post-patch QB accuracy. They ran slants and the accuracy was realistic, the patch messed it up. In order for anything to matter, we need Brady and those guys to be very accurate but still bounce some passes. We need Siemian, Bortles and others to airmail throws and barely hit 60% of passes.

This right here is a great point. All QBs feel the same. I hate to sound like a 2K fanboy but if anyone has ever played APF 2K8, every QB felt different. Especially playing against the AI offline. If I was playing against Warren Moon, I'd really have to worry about him escaping the pocket and taking off vs playing against Dan Marino who I knew would be less likely to do that. This was a game with far less budget and resources (and now on a last-gen console), yet still has better AI and motion capture that recent Madden's.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[ehh]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

I'm about to go back to using two controllers/owners in my CFM and always controlling the team with the ball. I watched a few more videos since the start of this thread, the scrambling stuff is so bad. Not sure you'll be able to play a ton of games vs the CPU with this kind of issue.

[aholbert32]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

Understood. But what about the 2nd question? Where can this game go if the same limitations persist? I'm actually very interested in what you think there b/c you've said that not only do you work on a sports game, but also for EA. At some point, everyone, online or offline, whatever play style, will get tired of the same game over and over.

I dont know man. The game has been the same in a lot of ways for 15 plus years and people are still buying it. The overall public is still buying it.

UFC is different because its a smaller team with much smaller resources. Every single dev that I encountered with UFC wants to make the game great and I bet its the same with Madden. They all have grand plans/ideas that they want to add to the next version. Then they start working. They find out how much of a budget they have. They find out when the tentative release date is. Then they start realizing that they dont have enough time to do half of the things they want to do.

Lets say that they rebuilt the entire game. Its not as easy as it seems. Even if you replaced all of the code, fixed all of the legacy issues and redid the animations (which we all agree is expensive), you still have to guarantee that it works. Thats months and months of QC just to make sure there arent any game breaking modes.

You have no idea how difficult it is to avoid bugs. I'll be playing a build of a game in the morning where an aspect of the game works. Someone on the team will suggest a change and the devs will make it the same day. We will play the new build and now there is a new bug affecting the gameplay. I'm not making excuses for devs. I'm just trying to make people how difficult game development is.

Corporations arent risk takers. They will ride this game until people stop buying it and then they will make significant changes.

[aholbert32]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

I'm about to go back to using two controllers/owners in my CFM and always controlling the team with the ball. I watched a few more videos since the start of this thread, the scrambling stuff is so bad. Not sure you'll be able to play a ton of games vs the CPU with this kind of issue.

I feel like it was the same way last year. If people were able to play a CFM last year and ignore this issue,, they should be able to do it this year.

[therealsmallville]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

Let me ask you this. Did you play only the Xbox one X version of the game? Did they have xbox one and PS4 versions of the game also? I'm willing to bet, the reason why gameplay was so different at EA play is because it wasn't the xbox one/ps4 version of the game..... Which would also explain why they didn't want people filming.

Higher resolution of the X1X/PS4 Pro won't make the AI play better.

The PS4 Pro & the Xbox One X aren't new consoles, they're just upgrades; the same disc you buy for the X1X will also play in the base Xbox One model, for instance. A.I. (as in, how the cpu is programmed to play, how tight/loose coverages are, etc) will be exactly the same across all units. The Pro & the 1X will just have better resolution. That's it.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[UtahUtes32]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

I'm not good with that. I'm not so desperate to get a better football game that I would encourage EA to fire American workers and outsource American jobs.

I work in I.T. , outsourcing work with computers usually brings what you pay for.

[SyncereBlackout]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

I understand the cost analysis component to this but let me ask you guys this: If they don't re-do this thing from scratch, what is the future of this game? How is it going to advance beyond where it's stuck now keeping the same technological limitations in place?

I see this current version being simply once again ported over to the next round of consoles and the next and so on. So in keeping the status quo here, this is what Madden will be for the rest of its life cycle. Is that what we really want?

How much $$ and human 'resources' has EA spent to keep patching and putting band aid fixes on this thing? The $100K costing programmers are spending extremely valuable time constantly fixing what was there and not innovating enough towards what could and should be there.

QB's are standing like statues now b/c some old code got in the way of something else and when they changed something else, QB pocket awareness became 'bugged'. It's a perpetual cycle of tinkering madness.

Do we have any understanding of why they stand in the pocket? I do not think it needs to be re-built to fix the "issue"


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[vrtkolman]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

Understood. But what about the 2nd question? Where can this game go if the same limitations persist? I'm actually very interested in what you think there b/c you've said that not only do you work on a sports game, but also for EA. At some point, everyone, online or offline, whatever play style, will get tired of the same game over and over.

At some point this game will have to be rebuilt. There is still a robotic feel ported over from the ps2 days. To me, it's an eyesore when all 5 offensive lineman leave the huddle and lineup the exact same way at the exact same time, like an assembly line. Or when a wide receiver runs a 90 degree straight line, cuts at a perfect 90 degree angle, and proceeds to catch the ball near the sideline and run out of bounds.

10 years from now when sports games are more and more realistic, more gamers will notice the gap if Madden keeps only building on what they have.

[SyncereBlackout]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

Let's do more than hope. What do we want to see?

We want to see classic pocket passers (Brady, Big Ben, Brees, Eli etc) stay in pocket, but slide, move around, "feel" the pressure and react. We want the in between guys, (Tannehill, Jameis) to do the same but to get outside the pocket and run when necessary. And we want the true mobile guys (Wilson, Mariota, Cam) to take off and punish us with legs.

Its more than just running or moving, its knowing when to bounce some passes.

I'm not sure what we mean by slide around in the pocket (assuming a pocket can be created) and what would be the basis for sliding around in the pocket without stepping into one of those fancy new reach sacks.

Would the sense pressure trait be the determining factor for escaping the pocket and throwing. Would they have to roll out around the tackle or would this happen between tackle and guard?

As far as scrambling mariota scrambled 60 times in 15 games last season. So if he scrambles once per quarter is that enough? Based on some fact pattern of the pocket breaking down. If the answer isn't yes then let me know what I'm missing.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[aholbert32]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

At some point this game will have to be rebuilt. There is still a robotic feel ported over from the ps2 days. To me, it's an eyesore when all 5 offensive lineman leave the huddle and lineup the exact same way at the exact same time, like an assembly line. Or when a wide receiver runs a 90 degree straight line, cuts at a perfect 90 degree angle, and proceeds to catch the ball near the sideline and run out of bounds.

10 years from now when sports games are more and more realistic, more gamers will notice the gap if Madden keeps only building on what they have.

The Ps2 days. The sales of this game havent dropped significantly in all that time. There are games like NBA 2k and the Show who have done more from an AI, player likeness, franchise and realism aspect....and the sales still dont drop significantly.

Whats funny is even when they do drop, the execs dont say "We need to make this game more realistic". They think "We need to do more to get casual fans to play the game". Thats the reason we have Longshot this year.

[Speedy]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

The thread doesn't exactly stick with the issue of QB play but rather a revamp of the current EA engine....but I've enjoyed reading thru the responses.

Who knew a Madden thread could be enjoyable reading?

[bad_philanthropy]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

The thread doesn't exactly stick with the issue of QB play but rather a revamp of the current EA engine....but I've enjoyed reading thru the responses.

Who knew a Madden thread could be enjoyable reading?

Well I think the theory presented is that the lacking QB play is symptomatic of the larger issue of an ancient code base ill-suited for propping up a contemporary AAA video game.

[vrtkolman]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

The Ps2 days. The sales of this game havent dropped significantly in all that time. There are games like NBA 2k and the Show who have done more from an AI, player likeness, franchise and realism aspect....and the sales still dont drop significantly.

Whats funny is even when they do drop, the execs dont say "We need to make this game more realistic". They think "We need to do more to get casual fans to play the game". Thats the reason we have Longshot this year.

Not yet, but eventually it could happen. When (if) The Show and NBA2k implement virtual reality features for example, sports gamers might leave Madden in the dust.