As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

[Toupal]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

There is scrambling ability, and then there is pocket mobility.

I have played against QB's in real life who would lose 40 yard dashes to linemen.

However, if you had to catch them in a phone booth, you couldn't get a hand on them.

That is what makes Tom Brady, Joe Montana, and some of the best QB's so great. Pocket mobility.

[kehlis]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

There is scrambling ability, and then there is pocket mobility.

I have played against QB's in real life who would lose 40 yard dashes to linemen.

However, if you had to catch them in a phone booth, you couldn't get a hand on them.

That is what makes Tom Brady, Joe Montana, and some of the best QB's so great. Pocket mobility.

And that is the crux of the issue and based on the thread title what we should be discussing in this thread.

*Based on the videos we've seen* there doesn't seem to be a uniqueness between any of the QB's, whether they be scramblers IRL or not.

Peyton Manning will never be discussed as a scrambling QB but like Brady, he knew when and where within the pocket to move if the opportunity was there or he knew when to take a knee (so to speak).

We aren't seeing this in the video's we've seen yet, even the most inept NFL quarterbacks should have some sort of pocket presence every now and again.

[khaliib]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

A lot of people expected new animations, physics and better AI with the engine-change, and, a realistic franchise mode....when i look at all the M18 gamplay videos it's almost the same like M17...only graphic changed, but AI and gameplay code remains the same........expensive? EA swims in money....but they keep the resources low....thats business....bad business...good for publishers, bad for consumers...

This is not true about gameplay being the same.

There was a change away from what we played at EA Play, but if "Sim" play Style is tuned back to those levels, I really believe there would be a renewed love affair with the game.

But no one that has played the game in any state, can say gameplay is the same as the past and it be the honest truth.

Some previous legacy issues, yes.
But same gameplay, absolutely no.

[bad_philanthropy]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

This is not true about gameplay being the same.

There was a change away from what we played at EA Play, but if "Sim" play Style is tuned back to those levels, I really believe there would be a renewed love affair with the game.

But no one that has played the game in any state, can say gameplay is the same as the past and it be the honest truth.

Some previous legacy issues, yes.
But same gameplay, absolutely no.

How dramatic would you say the change from EA play to what you see in the videos is? Obviously it's an inexact question since it's what you played versus what you're seeing, but if you can give some sort of comparison that would be interesting.

Did ai QB play look different in that build?

[jmurphy31]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

This is not true about gameplay being the same.

There was a change away from what we played at EA Play, but if "Sim" play Style is tuned back to those levels, I really believe there would be a renewed love affair with the game.

But no one that has played the game in any state, can say gameplay is the same as the past and it be the honest truth.

Some previous legacy issues, yes.
But same gameplay, absolutely no.

I'm curious to this as well.

On a side note I wonder if this is why they don't let filming in ea play any more. So people can't complain how things have changed since e3.

[aholbert32]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

A lot of people expected new animations, physics and better AI with the engine-change, and, a realistic franchise mode....when i look at all the M18 gamplay videos it's almost the same like M17...only graphic changed, but AI and gameplay code remains the same........expensive? EA swims in money....but they keep the resources low....thats business....bad business...good for publishers, bad for consumers...

Why would people expect better AI with a graphics engine change? Also, people are asking for a rebuild and thats what my point was addressing. Adding new animations and physics on top of the current system isnt a rebuild. FYI, there are new animations. There are new physics related to the running game.

Now a rebuild is expensive. Completely new mo-cap for every position group is expensive. You want RBs/WRs to have signature running styles....thats more mocap and thats expensive. More DL/OL interactions....more expensive mocap.
A complete rebuild means they probably have to sit out releasing a game for 2 yrs. EA swims in money? Well not after it decides not to release its second highest selling sports game for 1-2 years.

[bucky60]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

Now a rebuild is expensive. Completely new mo-cap for every position group is expensive. You want RBs/WRs to have signature running styles....thats more mocap and thats expensive. More DL/OL interactions....more expensive mocap.
A complete rebuild means they probably have to sit out releasing a game for 2 yrs. EA swims in money? Well not after it decides not to release its second highest selling sports game for 1-2 years.

They spent 4 years building Longshot (that you never play an NFL game in) and still released a product every year.

They created CCM (now CFM - barf) and still released a product every year.

They can do it. Probably will be expensive. Probably won't do it. Gameplay is harder to get right than franchise code. Especially when they dumb down franchise so much.

I agree with ya that they won't do it. But they could and still release a game every year.

[aholbert32]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

They spent 4 years building Longshot (that you never play an NFL game in) and still released a product every year.

They created CCM (now CFM - barf) and still released a product every year.

They can do it. Probably will be expensive. Probably won't do it. Gameplay is harder to get right than franchise code. Especially when they dumb down franchise so much.

I agree with ya that they won't do it. But they could and still release a game every year.

You are talking about modes. I'm talking about rebuilding the core of the game. Big difference.

[bucky60]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

You are talking about modes. I'm talking about rebuilding the core of the game. Big difference.

I did recognize that, and mentioned gameplay is much more difficult to do. But they have worked on things in parallel with releases before.

Still agree with ya that they won't do it.

[schnaidt1]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

I'm not sure what you mean by they won't speak on it.

Clint has already said they are looking at, which is better than having it ignored on Twitter.

Clint stated this before this thread was born and I posted it in one or two of the video threads.

I'm not sure what more we can get out of them than that at this point.

In my opinion, it's been acknowledged.

Here is the short Twitter exchange:

Just a concern I noticed: it appears that CPU qbs do not move in the pocket or scramble. Is there a tuning that can fix it?

We're looking at that

you see, they have acknowledge things in the past...aka the sack issue of 15, and qb accuracy last year....and did we ever get fixes?? heck...they came out and said "after extensive testing, we see nothing wrong with the sack rates in madden 15" yet how many threads and gameplay videos were on here of ppl getting 8 to 10 sacks a game!?!?!

the issue isnt them acknowledging the issue, its getting them to actually commit to fix it for us....and of this years game...not say its something they "hope" to get to for madden 18.

[roadman]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

you see, they have acknowledge things in the past...aka the sack issue of 15, and qb accuracy last year....and did we ever get fixes?? heck...they came out and said "after extensive testing, we see nothing wrong with the sack rates in madden 15" yet how many threads and gameplay videos were on here of ppl getting 8 to 10 sacks a game!?!?!

the issue isnt them acknowledging the issue, its getting them to actually commit to fix it for us....and of this years game...not say its something they "hope" to get to for madden 18.

And you know how precisely how that goes, they won't commit to fixing it until during the patch process(if we are lucky) or when the patch/fix drops.

[jmarcguy]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

The Running Backs have issues too. I've seen guys with open space decide to juke and get tackled. If they just ran straight they would've picked up major yards.


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[schnaidt1]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

And you know how precisely how that goes, they won't commit to fixing it until during the patch process(if we are lucky) or when the patch/fix drops.

lol i know exactly how it goes....all the love and gameplay fixes go to mut and online competitive.

zero for the offline sim gamers...

i mine we might get a few small things that 90% of us didnt even know was an issue that needed fixing...but will the touch the major issues for offline gameplay? not a chance. we paid our 60$...but those MUT players...they invest hundreds....they get the love. not us

[khaliib]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

How dramatic would you say the change from EA play to what you see in the videos is? Obviously it's an inexact question since it's what you played versus what you're seeing, but if you can give some sort of comparison that would be interesting.

Did ai QB play look different in that build?

EA Play consisted mostly of H2H Play, but I did squeeze in a couple of series before another jumped on the sticks.

The big difference I see between what was played to what I see in the vids, is the coverage was very tight on pass plays.
- you couldn't wait until a guy was open to throw to him
- Passing windows were small
- crossing routes were difficult to complete for gains
- User QB's were forced to step up, couldn't just run outside tackles and outrun
- Stamina during gameplay was very pronounced
- Speed of the game was slower

They've heard the displeasures about the change in gameplay since EA Play, so many will see on Thursday what's what.

One thing for sure, the "Sim" community better get their act together and come together on things they would like tuned per Sim Play Style.

So splintered right now as a group.

[bad_philanthropy]

Re: As a community we cannot accept the current CPU QB play.

Very interesting stuff as usual Khalib.

I know you've been under the hood of EA football games a lot over the years.

Do you have any idea what it is that causes the apparent difference in player awareness/ability to navigate the field in a precise manner?

Like we're seeing ai QB's move awkwardly, and RB's cutting when they don't need to cut, ballcarriers seemingly oblivious to holes and even bodies in front of them.

Do you have any knowledge about what sort of tuning causes the difference in awareness, and incisiveness and precision of player movements like we've seen in past Madden games and NCAA 14 versus this version?

The ballcarrier behavior I've seen in the videos is very reminiscent of the NCAA series from about 08-13.