the CPU doesn't progress players based on scheme

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  • Hooe
    Hall Of Fame
    • Aug 2002
    • 21555

    #31
    Re: the CPU doesn't progress players based on scheme

    Personally, I don't think the CPU should aggressively min-max their player progression by railroading all their roster to progress via whatever their scheme setting is.

    To provide one example where this works poorly: if the CPU were to min-max aggressively, that would mean a team like the Cowboys - set to Balanced 4-3 by default - would railroad DT David Irving to progress as a Run Stopper (the DT setting for Balanced 4-3). David Irving is an accomplished pass rusher and a 3-technique for the Cowboys. His primary role isn't to stop the run, but rather to attack the quarterback. He's not a Run Stopper, and shouldn't be made to be one at the expense of developing his ability to attack the quarterback.

    My opinion is that the scheme system introduced this year at the team-building level is far to rigid. The player archetype system to streamline progression is great, but there aren't enough scheme types to get all the way there and there's no consideration for different roles players have on a team. Compound that with the issue that the available scheme settings are outdated - especially on defense - and you have a system which I'm honestly not fully happy with. The icing on the cake is that the massive progression bonus provided by perfect scheme matches. That bonus should be determined the same way the scheme fit percentage is calculated, in my opinion (if the player's scheme OVR is within 3 OVR points of being his best OVR, he counts as a fit for the percentage; why is the progression bonus different? That's unnecessarily confusing).

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    • extremeskins04
      That's top class!
      • Aug 2010
      • 3868

      #32
      Re: the CPU doesn't progress players based on scheme

      I mean if the CPU teams aren't going to maximize the progression of their players based on their scheme, then what is the point of even trying to build your team into a winner?

      That's like the Carolina Panthers bringing in a new coach and him trying to change the offense to be Vertical Passing Schemed and he tries to develop Cam Newton into an Aaron Rodgers. That's just not going to work, that's not who he is.

      If the CPU team has a set scheme, then they should develop the players to best fit that scheme, not the complete opposite ..which is the point BleedGreen is trying to make.

      If the scheme doesn't work, then by all means make changes, but don't go with one scheme but progress your players in a totally different direction. That actually makes no sense to do.

      Comment

      • BleedGreen710
        Eagles Fan
        • Oct 2012
        • 4025

        #33
        Re: the CPU doesn't progress players based on scheme

        Originally posted by CM Hooe
        Personally, I don't think the CPU should aggressively min-max their player progression by railroading all their roster to progress via whatever their scheme setting is.
        I agree and I think you gave a great example. my solution would be to make it so the CPU only commits to the scheme fit if a player is within 3 points of matching the scheme.

        Comment

        • Therebelyell626
          MVP
          • Mar 2018
          • 2892

          #34
          Re: the CPU doesn't progress players based on scheme

          I am surprised anyone is actually surprised by the fact that nothing has changed with this mode. EA slapped a fresh coat of paint on it which probably took very little man power and very few resources to accomplish. Everyone needs to accept EA does not care about this mode anymore. They have not figured out a way to monetize it, and unfortunately EA business model is if they can't find a way to juice you out of every penny they can they simply don't care.

          Fortunately for me I have been enjoying the game because gameplay is so good this year. But once again this game will be stale in a few weeks and will be on gamestops shelf. then I will be patiently anticipating NBA 2k.

          Comment

          • Phillyboi207
            Banned
            • Apr 2012
            • 3159

            #35
            Re: the CPU doesn't progress players based on scheme

            Originally posted by CM Hooe
            My opinion is that the scheme system introduced this year at the team-building level is far to rigid. The player archetype system to streamline progression is great, but there aren't enough scheme types to get all the way there and there's no consideration for different roles players have on a team.
            I think this is the crux of the issue and a great point.

            Hopefully they expand on the different roles and player archetypes.

            I would love to see assistant coaches and their own schemes so we can get more hybrid schemes.

            Also have thresholds for athleticism /size. Coaching staffs have criteria when deciding who to draft

            Comment

            • King Gro23
              MVP
              • Jan 2008
              • 2548

              #36
              Re: the CPU doesn't progress players based on scheme

              Originally posted by extremeskins04
              I mean if the CPU teams aren't going to maximize the progression of their players based on their scheme, then what is the point of even trying to build your team into a winner?

              That's like the Carolina Panthers bringing in a new coach and him trying to change the offense to be Vertical Passing Schemed and he tries to develop Cam Newton into an Aaron Rodgers. That's just not going to work, that's not who he is.

              If the CPU team has a set scheme, then they should develop the players to best fit that scheme, not the complete opposite ..which is the point BleedGreen is trying to make.

              If the scheme doesn't work, then by all means make changes, but don't go with one scheme but progress your players in a totally different direction. That actually makes no sense to do.
              But the panthers have been trying to do that in different seasons. iRL.
              Its football. Xp is a gimmick. The quantities of XP are gimmicks.

              Every team is going to build and develop. Now the complaint of well I make 25,000 extra xp from my scheme fits per season compared to the cpu.
              So of those players how many are retaining in the offseason admist all of the player moves?
              Cpu loses players too.
              Players moves teams and may become scheme fits.

              There's so many factors.

              I wish it was all based on statistical stats and some form of off-season programs. Which is very shallow to my point.

              At this point I realize I'm not being very productive as I'm trying to reason why this isn't too big of an issue for me. But we all are entitled to our opinions

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              Comment

              • Airfaron23
                Rookie
                • Aug 2015
                • 247

                #37
                Re: the CPU doesn't progress players based on scheme

                I'm not too worried about the teams not drafting according to their scheme. I mean, the Chiefs drafted Mahomes and he was the polar opposite of Alex Smith..

                The free agent logic does scare me a bit though
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                Comment

                • Phillyboi207
                  Banned
                  • Apr 2012
                  • 3159

                  #38
                  Re: the CPU doesn't progress players based on scheme

                  Originally posted by Airfaron23
                  I'm not too worried about the teams not drafting according to their scheme. I mean, the Chiefs drafted Mahomes and he was the polar opposite of Alex Smith..

                  The free agent logic does scare me a bit though
                  Maybe have each head coach get a rating to determine how closely they like to follow the scheme?

                  Reid takes a lot of risks and is willing to make talent fit. Others are more rigid and abide by their schemes

                  Comment

                  • JayD
                    All Star
                    • Mar 2004
                    • 5457

                    #39
                    Re: the CPU doesn't progress players based on scheme

                    Originally posted by Airfaron23
                    I'm not too worried about the teams not drafting according to their scheme. I mean, the Chiefs drafted Mahomes and he was the polar opposite of Alex Smith..

                    The free agent logic does scare me a bit though
                    I'm not saying you're wrong but what is the point of schemes and archetypes if the CPU doesn't utilize them? It's basically a gimmick.

                    Comment

                    • tdawg3782
                      I hate you Norv
                      • Nov 2003
                      • 4803

                      #40
                      Re: the CPU doesn't progress players based on scheme

                      Originally posted by BleedGreen710
                      I agree and I think you gave a great example. my solution would be to make it so the CPU only commits to the scheme fit if a player is within 3 points of matching the scheme.
                      Lol. This was going to be my rough rule when I progressed my players.

                      Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

                      Comment

                      • scitychamps87
                        MVP
                        • Apr 2010
                        • 1201

                        #41
                        Re: the CPU doesn't progress players based on scheme

                        Originally posted by extremeskins04
                        Why do I feel like I remember Clint specifically saying in an interview that teams were progressing, drafting and using Free Agency to fit their schemes that they're running....

                        I know I remember that cause I was finally excited cause it was needed.
                        I also remember this

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                        • adembroski
                          49ers
                          • Jul 2002
                          • 5829

                          #42
                          Re: the CPU doesn't progress players based on scheme

                          Originally posted by JayD
                          I'm not saying you're wrong but what is the point of schemes and archetypes if the CPU doesn't utilize them? It's basically a gimmick.
                          To drastically improve the progression system, which it does.
                          There are two types of people on OS: Those who disagree with me, and those who agree.

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                          • GrayDawg
                            Pro
                            • Aug 2013
                            • 864

                            #43
                            Re: the CPU doesn't progress players based on scheme

                            My question is if the ratings selected are random. Is the archetype the cpu selects also random or does it select the same one week after week?

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                            • Sucram7777
                              Rookie
                              • Aug 2014
                              • 332

                              #44
                              Re: the CPU doesn't progress players based on scheme

                              Originally posted by adembroski
                              To drastically improve the progression system, which it does.

                              But you don't have a problem with how the AI interacts with this though?
                              Or better - "lack thereof"?

                              Comment

                              • JayD
                                All Star
                                • Mar 2004
                                • 5457

                                #45
                                Re: the CPU doesn't progress players based on scheme

                                Originally posted by adembroski
                                To drastically improve the progression system, which it does.
                                Schemes are just a gimmick IMO. No point at all. Also, not sure how you don't see the unfair advantage the user has over the CPU when it comes to extra XP?

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