Madden NFL 11 Blog: Run Blocking Improvements

[Tyrant8RDFL]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Blog: Run Blocking Improvements

For those that think that it is acceptable how the defense is playing on Rookie is fine.

I really hope your right, but I can't see that. How many times have we seen things not done correctly in videos or trailers in the past, only to see it exist when the game releases.

Listen I hope I'am wrong and your right with the whole rookie excuse, because if that is not the case. I can see players beefing bigtime on how easy it is to run for 300yrds plus in the game, and how diffcult it is to play defense.

To me no level should perform that way, also I feel what we might witness is how ratings will not play a part in this game. It's going to be based on the fact that there is a player there to make the block and he will. We won't have the fact that this stud defender shedded his block on this weak blocker , and made the tackle, because now this is how they improved run blocking.

We shall see won't we.

[Palo20]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Blog: Run Blocking Improvements

For those that think that it is acceptable how the defense is playing on Rookie is fine.

I really hope your right, but I can't see that. How many times have we seen things not done correctly in videos or trailers in the past, only to see it exist when the game releases.

Listen I hope I'am wrong and your right with the whole rookie excuse, because if that is not the case. I can see players beefing bigtime on how easy it is to run for 300yrds plus in the game, and how diffcult it is to play defense.

To me no level should perform that way, also I feel what we might witness is how ratings will not play a part in this game. It's going to be based on the fact that there is a player there to make the block and he will. We won't have the fact that this stud defender shedded his block on this weak blocker , and made the tackle, because now this is how they improved run blocking.

We shall see won't we.

Just pop in Madden 10 and run a few plays on Rookie. Defenders will watch the ballcarrier run past them; it's that bad sometimes. Night and day different game than All Pro.

Not saying we have nothing to worry about, but we definitely should not judge the game on Rookie.

[Only1LT]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Blog: Run Blocking Improvements

Nice try but the sole purpose of the "Rookie" difficulty is to make it easier for the user. Simply put the sliders are in the user's favor and severely handi-cap the CPU A.I.. If you want the sliders even where both sides react equally I suggest you request a vid done on All-Pro.

You are explaining to me how it works. I know how it works. My point is that I don't think it should work that way.

[Tyrant8RDFL]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Blog: Run Blocking Improvements

Just pop in Madden 10 and run a few plays on Rookie. Defenders will watch the ballcarrier run past them; it's that bad sometimes. Night and day different game than All Pro.

Not saying we have nothing to worry about, but we definitely should not judge the game on Rookie.

Well hearing this sounds good. I did not enjoy Madden 10 so I did not play it much at all, and never try the rookie level.

Thank for this info, and I really hope this is the case.

[Only1LT]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Blog: Run Blocking Improvements

No... on rookie difficulty the computer players react slowly, lack awareness, and lack fundamentals, because the whole point is for the game to be easier for the player.



That's because you're thinking of difficulty setting as an offense vs. defense difficulty, rather than a difficulty for the user.



Except that some people aren't as good as others at sports games. Difficulty levels exist to make the game easier or harder based on the experience you, as a user, want.



Sliders are for fine tuning. As it stands, however, the difficulty setting adjusts the sliders and vica virca. Yes, you can adjust sliders independently, but if you go too far one direction or another with them, you change the difficulty (speaking of M10 here).

I used to do a lot of slider work... testing and coming up with realistic sliders. The way it used to work was that the difficulty setting essentially effected the frequency of AI updates, and also was a modifier to CPU player attributes. At rookie, the CPU would update it's AI very slowly, and the players would all have attribute penalties. At All Madden, the AI would update frequently, and the CPU players would have substantial attribute bonuses.

Pro and All Pro had no penalties or bonuses, but the All Pro AI Updates were more frequent (personally, I've always wanted something between all-pro and all madden... more AI updates, no attribute bonus).

This isn't technical, it's observation. I could be wrong in my interpretation of what I've seen, but that's what I suspect. AI Updates--- to explain, AI in most games "updates" at regular intervals. Usually several times per second. This is when the AI looks at essentially a screenshot and decides how to proceed based on the existing circumstances. Faster AI updates means the CPU reacts more quickly. AI doesn't "think" in real time the way we do, it has to constantly reevaluate what it's looking at and respond to circumstances at intervals.

So what you see with the slow reaction time at rookie is the computer responding to it's last AI update. When it updates again, the AI will react to the new circumstances.

The sliders, on the other hand, give direct attribute bonuses and penalties to specific areas of the game. Raising QB Accuracy for the CPU makes all CPU QBs play as though their Throwing Accuracy ratings were higher.

Thus, having difficulty levels AND sliders makes me better able to fine tune my game the way I want it.



Not having difficulty settings would be terrible for new players and veteran players. Some people are simply better than others. Stick skills vary greatly, and the game is no fun if you're either too good for the game to challenge you or too bad to be competitive.

There was a game... the original MVP Baseball... where the developers elected not to have sliders. They said "if you make the game right in the first place, you don't need sliders." A lot of people agreed with them. Then the game came out, and it wasn't perfect. No game with sliders ever goes without their sliders untouched, simple as that. Every game can be improved. There is no sense in not giving us the tools to improve it.

I'm still pissed that FIFA doesn't have sliders.

Again, you are telling me how it works. I'm telling you how I think it should work. I am not in favor of making one aspect of the game behave unrealistically in order to represent difficulty.

You and the other poster are not seeing what implications this has on the game. So at Rookie level the defense stands still and watches the runner go past him. Ok. What happens on All Madden then? He reacts the second that the play is called and knows exactly where to go? Hmmmm. This kinda sounds like how it works now. That's a problem in my opinion.

You also said that having one difficulty is bad for the user. How so? Don't most people have a particular difficulty that they agree on as being most realistic? Don't the devs set one set difficulty that you can play ranked games on. Not saying that this is actually the best representation of real life, but they are obviously saying that this is the closest. So if it is, why waste time on the other "fake" one's?

And I can tell you that I have never adjusted a single game slider on any sports game ever. If I can't use it online, or even against someone in person, because maybe they play differently, what is the point in learning to play the game a certain way that I will never use?

And those makers of MVP are right. If the game is made right in the first place, there is absolutely no need for sliders. Don't use the fact that you use sliders in Madden as proof that that statement is false. I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but Madden isn't made "right".

[at23steelers]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Blog: Run Blocking Improvements

Well hearing this sounds good. I did not enjoy Madden 10 so I did not play it much at all, and never try the rookie level.

Thank for this info, and I really hope this is the case.

Yeah, I agree with what you're saying. The difficulty rating is the main influence behind how you're team performs, not the ratings. You could have an all-star team against the Browns, but your players will drop the ball and your QB's accuracy will be greatly affected no matter who you're QB and WR's are. It seems that the difficulty creates how the game is played out, so when you face a team, this creates little discrepancy between a Revis and William Gay. Instead, if they do have a difficulty, have the AI outsmart you, not unfairly overmatch you.

[blklightning]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Blog: Run Blocking Improvements

I hope their's D to stop these runs ; It looks like offense is going to dominate Madden 11

+1

it seems like every time they improve something on offense, they forget to counter that with defensive adjustments. we'll see, i guess.

[adembroski]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Blog: Run Blocking Improvements

Again, you are telling me how it works. I'm telling you how I think it should work. I am not in favor of making one aspect of the game behave unrealistically in order to represent difficulty.

You and the other poster are not seeing what implications this has on the game. So at Rookie level the defense stands still and watches the runner go past him. Ok. What happens on All Madden then? He reacts the second that the play is called and knows exactly where to go? Hmmmm. This kinda sounds like how it works now. That's a problem in my opinion.

You also said that having one difficulty is bad for the user. How so? Don't most people have a particular difficulty that they agree on as being most realistic? Don't the devs set one set difficulty that you can play ranked games on. Not saying that this is actually the best representation of real life, but they are obviously saying that this is the closest. So if it is, why waste time on the other "fake" one's?

And I can tell you that I have never adjusted a single game slider on any sports game ever. If I can't use it online, or even against someone in person, because maybe they play differently, what is the point in learning to play the game a certain way that I will never use?

And those makers of MVP are right. If the game is made right in the first place, there is absolutely no need for sliders. Don't use the fact that you use sliders in Madden as proof that that statement is false. I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but Madden isn't made "right".

Online, you want more of a challenge, you play against a tougher opponent. If you're not as skilled at the game, you play users that aren't as skilled as well. Difficulty is a way to mirror those options if you're more of an offline/franchise type of player.

There is no single perfect difficulty setting because there's no single perfect Madden player. We all have different skill levels, yet we want a challenging but realistic game. I don't agree with how difficulty affects Rookie and All-Madden, personally. I don't like giving bonuses, but changing the frequency of AI updates is perfectly reasonable... it's like playing a user with faster or slower reflexes.

Like it or not, some things have to be made abstract in video games, because they cannot mirror real life. If you want a sim without a need for difficulty settings, play a text sim. Stick skills are meaningless.

[Tyrant8RDFL]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Blog: Run Blocking Improvements

Again, you are telling me how it works. I'm telling you how I think it should work. I am not in favor of making one aspect of the game behave unrealistically in order to represent difficulty.

You and the other poster are not seeing what implications this has on the game. So at Rookie level the defense stands still and watches the runner go past him. Ok. What happens on All Madden then? He reacts the second that the play is called and knows exactly where to go? Hmmmm. This kinda sounds like how it works now. That's a problem in my opinion.

You also said that having one difficulty is bad for the user. How so? Don't most people have a particular difficulty that they agree on as being most realistic? Don't the devs set one set difficulty that you can play ranked games on. Not saying that this is actually the best representation of real life, but they are obviously saying that this is the closest. So if it is, why waste time on the other "fake" one's?

And I can tell you that I have never adjusted a single game slider on any sports game ever. If I can't use it online, or even against someone in person, because maybe they play differently, what is the point in learning to play the game a certain way that I will never use?

And those makers of MVP are right. If the game is made right in the first place, there is absolutely no need for sliders. Don't use the fact that you use sliders in Madden as proof that that statement is false. I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but Madden isn't made "right".

I agree with you all of the way, not becuase we both love the Giants , but simply because I see it the same exact way you do.

I started a thread a long time ago. It was titled "Are levels of gameplay ruining the game"

I strongly feel that if players ratings really mattered that levels of play along with sliders would not be needed, and we would play our games with a true gameplan, not just using the same plays over and over that work no matter what team is out there.

This is deep and I have the ideas and layout that would make one level of play work perfectly, but I would be writing the longest post ever.

Now for sliders. I really agree with MVP on this. Sliders are horrible for the game. If I'am a programmer and made the accuracy for Qb's , why would I have a accuracy slider?? What was the point of me doing all that hard work , just to add a slider. That does not say much for my work.

also for the players not as well educated in the game of football as others. Trust me if they love the sport they will learn. No one just picks up of football game unless they are a fan. Especially a football game, if you dont understand you want noithing to do with it.

Anyways LT I'm with you all the way on this.

Yeah, I agree with what you're saying. The difficulty rating is the main influence behind how you're team performs, not the ratings. You could have an all-star team against the Browns, but your players will drop the ball and your QB's accuracy will be greatly affected no matter who you're QB and WR's are. It seems that the difficulty creates how the game is played out, so when you face a team, this creates little discrepancy between a Revis and William Gay. Instead, if they do have a difficulty, have the AI outsmart you, not unfairly overmatch you.

Im glad im not alone in seeing this. Im with you brother.

[s38s38s]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Blog: Run Blocking Improvements

If developers and gaming companies thought like ^ they'd be bankrupt. People with your mind set are the minority. Difficulty levels are needed in all things in video games and life alike. If you can't swim you gonna go jump into nine feet because someone said if you wanna learn this is all we got? Hell no, you're gonna learn in the shallow end get your feet wet and progress. Same concept for video games you get used to the game on the lower levels, then as you learn you move up in difficulty to increase the challenge. It's a very simple concept that people ruin by OVER-THINKING.

[achain]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Blog: Run Blocking Improvements

I've been a cynic now for a few years, but that actually made me a little excited.

Consider my curiosity piqued.

[Tyrant8RDFL]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Blog: Run Blocking Improvements

If developers and gaming companies thought like ^ they'd be bankrupt. People with your mind set are the minority. Difficulty levels are needed in all things in video games and life alike. If you can't swim you gonna go jump into nine feet because someone said if you wanna learn this is all we got? Hell no, you're gonna learn in the shallow end get your feet wet and progress. Same concept for video games you get used to the game on the lower levels, then as you learn you move up in difficulty to increase the challenge. It's a very simple concept that people ruin by OVER-THINKING.

Your right I'am in the minority I will not argue that, but you can not say that if they did it my way they would be bankrupt.

It has never been done, so to make that statement is foolish and ignorant. It is easy to say what is happening when it has taken place, but to see things in a creative way is something else, and only when it is a reality, and the results are in. Then you can say accurately what the outcome is.

The problem is you only speak of the obvious. You do not understand that by human nature if we are given something a certain way and have to adjust to it , that we will, and guess what that now becomes the norm.

What I describe above is vet very deep, and if I had the opportunity to sit with EA and consult them all the way with the A.I logic. TRUST ME that Madden would be the best football game EVER CREATED.

Till my idea becomes a reality, you and I will never know. Right now we just agree to disagree.

Also your comparison with swimming and football do not work.

Levels of play do not teach you the game of football. Tutorials teach you the game of football, so levels of play are not needed tutorials are.

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Blog: Run Blocking Improvements

Your right I'am in the minority I will not argue that, but you can not say that if they did it my way they would be bankrupt.

It has never been done, so to make that statement is foolish and ignorant. It is easy to say what is happening when it has taken place, but to see things in a creative way is something else, and only when it is a reality, and the results are in. Then you can say accurately what the outcome is.

The problem is you only speak of the obvious. You do not understand that by human nature if we are given something a certain way and have to adjust to it , that we will, and guess what that now becomes the norm.

What I describe above is vet very deep, and if I had the opportunity to sit with EA and consult them all the way with the A.I logic. TRUST ME that Madden would be the best football game EVER CREATED.

Till my idea becomes a reality, you and I will never know. Right now we just agree to disagree.

Also your comparison with swimming and football do not work.

Levels of play do not teach you the game of football. Tutorials teach you the game of football, so levels of play are not needed tutorials are.

You know that you and I are different on this too from last year.

I piddle around with sliders for a few months till I get it as close as NFL stats as possible. I do the same with baseball and basketball games.

If your idea would guarantee me stats in line with the NFL, I would take you up on your idea.

Otherwise, I feel we should allow people to tinker with the sliders to get the game they want.

[s38s38s]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Blog: Run Blocking Improvements

Your right I'am in the minority I will not argue that, but you can not say that if they did it my way they would be bankrupt.

It has never been done, so to make that statement is foolish and ignorant. It is easy to say what is happening when it has taken place, but to see things in a creative way is something else, and only when it is a reality, and the results are in. Then you can say accurately what the outcome is.

The problem is you only speak of the obvious. You do not understand that by human nature if we are given something a certain way and have to adjust to it , that we will, and guess what that now becomes the norm.

What I describe above is vet very deep, and if I had the opportunity to sit with EA and consult them all the way with the A.I logic. TRUST ME that Madden would be the best football game EVER CREATED.

Till my idea becomes a reality, you and I will never know. Right now we just agree to disagree.

Also your comparison with swimming and football do not work.

Levels of play do not teach you the game of football. Tutorials teach you the game of football, so levels of play are not needed tutorials are.

Nah bruh. Bankrupt.

[Tyrant8RDFL]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Blog: Run Blocking Improvements

You know that you and I are different on this too from last year.

I piddle around with sliders for a few months till I get it as close as NFL stats as possible. I do the same with baseball and basketball games.

If your idea would guarantee me stats in line with the NFL, I would take you up on your idea.

Otherwise, I feel we should allow people to tinker with the sliders to get the game they want.

The problem is how can I get it done? I can't I'm not a developer or in the position to consult EA when they are coding the A.I logic or creating the playbook, so obviously gamers have to tinker with sliders.

With the way EA implements the A.I logic sliders are needed. They way I would do it sliders would not be needed.

The reason why you need sliders now is because how the difficulty levels are done. They either really dumb the game down. Like in the video where they showcased the new blocking, or they really boost the players abilities. Players that suck will perform solid on ALL Madden level, and players that are solid would suck on rookie.

You now have to find that medium and tinker from there with the sliders to find what? To find players playing in a realistic manner cause your trying to get realistic stats.

That is not the way to go. 1 level "realistic" where the players play to their true abilities and ratings, and for those players that need help. Changing the speed of the game can aid them along with a tutorial.

This is why ratings mean nothing in the game. The A.I is done wrong.

Roadman Its more than just the A.I. It is how they implement new features. They seem to focus on making that feature shine with no counter to it. Football is a real deep sport, and they seem to not think as deep as they should.

Nah bruh. Bankrupt.

Bruh really??? wow you were better off saying nothing at all.