Would "Fog Of War" Be An Acceptable Addition To Madden's Default Passing View?

[Only1LT]

Re: Would "Fog Of War" Be An Acceptable Addition To Madden's Default Passing View?

As a QB you should know where are your players should be.

Is any system perfect ofcourse not. Madden is a videogame. You have to also take into consideration user vs user games. Besides you don't want to turn off the majority of your consumers implementing something completely different.

The double tap will force players with less aware QB to make presnap reads. If it does nothing more than that it's a huge sucess IMO.

I guess that's where we part. It's status quo for me.

[Only1LT]

Re: Would "Fog Of War" Be An Acceptable Addition To Madden's Default Passing View?

As a QB you should know where are your players should be.

Is any system perfect ofcourse not. Madden is a videogame. You have to also take into consideration user vs user games. Besides you don't want to turn off the majority of your consumers implementing something completely different.

The double tap will force players with less aware QB to make presnap reads. If it does nothing more than that it's a huge sucess IMO.

This isn't really true, but even if it was, you still would not know if they were open until you actually looked to see if they were. This is not even remotely replicated in the passing game, and this is one of my chief issues with it.

[da ThRONe]

Re: Would "Fog Of War" Be An Acceptable Addition To Madden's Default Passing View?

I guess that's where we part. It's status quo for me.

Status quo is not being penalized for having low awareness what so ever. Status quo is your QB having the ability to throw the ball to any pass catcher at any moment. A double tap would fix both of those. May not be as far from "status quo" for you liking but it would not be the same thing.

[da ThRONe]

Re: Would "Fog Of War" Be An Acceptable Addition To Madden's Default Passing View?

This isn't really true, but even if it was, you still would not know if they were open until you actually looked to see if they were. This is not even remotely replicated in the passing game, and this is one of my chief issues with it.

Once again no system will be perfect.

[Only1LT]

Re: Would "Fog Of War" Be An Acceptable Addition To Madden's Default Passing View?

Status quo is not being penalized for having low awareness what so ever. Status quo is your QB having the ability to throw the ball to any pass catcher at any moment. A double tap would fit both of those. May not be as far from "status quo" for you liking but it would not be the same thing.

For me, it's status quo. Those changes are cosmetic to me. It would not require that I do a single thing differently in order to play the game, save hit the same button twice.

You don't agree? That's fine, but again, for you it's a huge diff. To me, if I still do everything the same save for hit the button one extra time, it isn't a huge diff.

Sorry. Again, that's where we part.

[Only1LT]

Re: Would "Fog Of War" Be An Acceptable Addition To Madden's Default Passing View?

Once again no system will be perfect.

I missed the part where I asked for a perfect system lol.

[Broncos86]

Re: Would "Fog Of War" Be An Acceptable Addition To Madden's Default Passing View?

The whole idea of the double tap sounds similar to the basis of the vision cone. Hold down a button, press the WR icon, and your QB's vision cone locks on that WR.

No thanks. I understand the concept and what it's trying to emulate. However, it ignores the fact that a video game has specific "flaws" that will always separate itself from its real life counterpart.

If you want to make AWR mean something for player-controlled QBs, go a different route. Make the QB remember less audibles, or have the play art fade away quickly (and not come back) for QBs with lower AWR. Have the AWR affect trajectory on the ball. A higher AWR QB should have the smarts to arc a ball over a LB, or find passing windows through the defensive line.

[Only1LT]

Re: Would "Fog Of War" Be An Acceptable Addition To Madden's Default Passing View?

The whole idea of the double tap sounds similar to the basis of the vision cone. Hold down a button, press the WR icon, and your QB's vision cone locks on that WR.

No thanks. I understand the concept and what it's trying to emulate. However, it ignores the fact that a video game has specific "flaws" that will always separate itself from its real life counterpart.

If you want to make AWR mean something for player-controlled QBs, go a different route. Make the QB remember less audibles, or have the play art fade away quickly (and not come back) for QBs with lower AWR. Have the AWR affect trajectory on the ball. A higher AWR QB should have the smarts to arc a ball over a LB, or find passing windows through the defensive line.

Very interesting ideas, and ones that I haven't heard before.

I'm not opposed to any of them. I'm not even opposed to double tap. Maybe we are just talking about diff things. It seems like you guys are looking for a way to make the awareness rating matter. Although I am concerned with that too, I'm more concerned with making it feel more like I am actually playing QB than we currently are.

[da ThRONe]

Re: Would "Fog Of War" Be An Acceptable Addition To Madden's Default Passing View?

The whole idea of the double tap sounds similar to the basis of the vision cone. Hold down a button, press the WR icon, and your QB's vision cone locks on that WR.

No thanks. I understand the concept and what it's trying to emulate. However, it ignores the fact that a video game has specific "flaws" that will always separate itself from its real life counterpart.

If you want to make AWR mean something for player-controlled QBs, go a different route. Make the QB remember less audibles, or have the play art fade away quickly (and not come back) for QBs with lower AWR. Have the AWR affect trajectory on the ball. A higher AWR QB should have the smarts to arc a ball over a LB, or find passing windows through the defensive line.

I think composure should be in Madden.

As far as awareness impacting ball trajectory I really don't like that. Just because your dumb doesn't mean you can't make all the proper throws. I think double taps are the good things about about the vision cone and none of the bad. You should not be able to throw to a player/area you aren't even looking at that to me is basic football(You hear that Drew Brees)

[Only1LT]

Re: Would "Fog Of War" Be An Acceptable Addition To Madden's Default Passing View?

I think composure should be in Madden.

As far as awareness impacting ball trajectory I really don't like that. Just because your dumb doesn't mean you can't make all the proper throws. I think double taps are the good things about about the vision cone and none of the bad. You should not be able to throw to a player/area you aren't even looking at that to me is basic football(You hear that Drew Brees)

I don't understand this statement. You could throw to someone in real life without looking at them if you were dumb enough too. Sometimes I swear that's exactly what Eli does lol. You would just have to accept the consequences of doing so, if that was your choice. Isn't that the same with the Cone?

[Broncos86]

Re: Would "Fog Of War" Be An Acceptable Addition To Madden's Default Passing View?

Very interesting ideas, and ones that I haven't heard before.

I'm not opposed to any of them. I'm not even opposed to double tap. Maybe we are just talking about diff things. It seems like you guys are looking for a way to make the awareness rating matter. Although I am concerned with that too, I'm more concerned with making it feel more like I am actually playing QB than we currently are.

This is how I feel, and I don't think things such as double tap, vision cone, etc make the difference. Otherwise, AWR = how strong your QB's neck muscles are (i.e. how fast they turn their heads ). Before things such as these are talked about, the basics of the throwing game need to be fixed. RBP, better ball trajectory, better "touch" on throws, etc. After that, I'm more inclined to suggest pre-snap aspects to apply. Identifying the "mike" for blocking schemes, for example.

[LiquorLogic]

Re: Would "Fog Of War" Be An Acceptable Addition To Madden's Default Passing View?

I like the idea of going through a progression with the QB by first having to select the receiver then pressing again to pass. Although, in reality people will just doubletap the receiver icon instead of actually scanning the field with the QB. And a doubletap adds maybe a tenth of a second to the total time it'll take to get a pass off. I don't think that'll really make a difference.

About rumble, I generally don't play with it so I can't really say. But as a QB you can kind of feel when the pocket is collapsing behind you. Its those complete unblocked guys from the blindside (DBs, Looping Backers, Stunting linemen etc) that are usually the surprise.
I still think that it is a bigger problem that the CPU QB has no conept of blindside though and that they always gravitate to the right side. This kills RE stats. And its probably something that could be fixed much easier.

You're half right. It won't make a difference in the total time that it will take the user to get the pass off, and that is a good thing; it won't piss people off. What will make the difference is the time that it will take for user to switch from one receiver to the next. With Brady, Manning, or Brees it will be easy to get to your 4th read. With an inexperienced QB like Newton, you may have to do what he did in Auburn which is take off if you're first read isn't open. It will put a lot more pressure on the user to make the correct pre-snap read.

As far as the Rumble, sometimes it could rumble, but many times it wouldn't unlike the side we the QB isn't blind. It could rumble more based on awareness and mobility. Some QB's play like they have eyes in the back of their head, while other QB's are clueless. They could also make it not rumble at all, for inexperience, or rattled, QBs, or they could make it rumble for no reason at all to simulate a QB seeing, or feeling pressure, when it's not there. Basically, the more aware and mobile the QB is, the more reliable the rumble feature would be.

[Landlordos7]

Re: Would "Fog Of War" Be An Acceptable Addition To Madden's Default Passing View?

Here's my fix idea:

First, one of the triggers is now a pass button.

Take the god view camera, zoom it in some (not a ton, think of it as a halfway point between madden and backbreaker) to where you can't see the entire field at one time, but you can still see most of it, say...70%.

All your receivers still have icons, but hitting the icon for (example) my (X) receiver doesn't pass it to (X) receiver, it just shifts focus to him, much like the vision cone system (if he's in the same general area as the currently focused receiver the camera won't change at all, since it still shows a good amount of the field at all times). You have to be "focused" or selected on your receiver to throw it to them with the new pass button.

I feel this could work if they implemented it well and in a way to where users could still get passes off lightning quick after deciding where to go with it. It takes away most of the frustration with accidentally hitting the wrong receiver button (hopefully you'll have time to switch to the right one before taking a sack), it simulates reads and checkdowns and etc., but it doesn't make it impossible or entirely human either.

Edit: I should note, with the new camera angle, the biggest difference isn't that it's zoomed in, it's that it's lower (closer to the level of the field) and slightly more upfield, meaning you can't see ten yards behind your quarterback for pressure coming from behind, but maybe cut that in half or so. It is still slightly zoomed as well, however.

Do not quote with the mean to be arrogant, but I am wondering what other people think of this. There are obviously problems with this idea playing coop on the same screen, but what about single player or online?

[LiquorLogic]

Re: Would "Fog Of War" Be An Acceptable Addition To Madden's Default Passing View?

Sorry, I was using your post as an example for those who want it to be a quick double tap method, which is what I see the most.

I still don't think it is the best implementation, even with a delay, and still isn't much diff than what we currently have. The main reason being that you can still see all the receivers at once and you never have to actually highlight anyone except for the receiver that you decide to finally throw to.

Is it better? Slightly, yes, but the whole mechanic becomes a waste of time. You could just as easily accomplish what you want to do by just changing the QB's animation to actually setup slower to throw to the receiver. The worse the awareness, the longer/ slower the animation. Now you mimic your double tap system, and again, you still see the whole field, but you hit the button once and wait, as opposed to hit the button once and wait and hit it again.

If you can do the same thing with a new animation as you can with a new control mechanic, then is the control mechanic really changing much, is my question?

That's a better illustration of my ambivalence towards a double tap method.

I don't see how it's only slightly better. With a smart QB you can get to your fourth read. With a less intelligent QB, most of the time, if you're first or second read isn't open, you have to take off, or take a sack. This method makes is harder to find the open man with stupid QB no matter how strong or accurate his arm is.

If you're starting a franchise with the Panthers, and you start Newton, you may have to take off if the first read isn't open. Years down the line, he may get to his fourth read like an elite QB.

Also, with your suggestion, you can't look off receivers. With the double tap system ( obviously the receiver would be highlighted in some way) you can look defenders off. With inexperienced, or stupid QBs, looking off defenders might not be an option. With elite Qbs it will.

[Thinking Out Loud]

Re: Would "Fog Of War" Be An Acceptable Addition To Madden's Default Passing View?

When I say "make everyone happy", I mean that you want to stay within the framework of what is here. That's fine, but if you really want to improve Madden, why not put forth your best ideas, regardless of whether they mean drastic changes or otherwise?

If someone is wearing a hideous shirt, I'm going to tell them they are wearing a hideous shirt and they need to stop wearing it. I'm not going to tell them to put a pretty handkerchief in the pocket to dress it up. To me, that seems like a waste of time.

Our difference of opinion is in the details of that scenario. If the person plans on wearing that hideous shirt out some wear I am not going, then yeah, I will tell them they should wear another shirt and I couldn't give 2 funks if they listen or not. However, if they plan on wearing that hideous shirt and hanging out with ME, then I would suggest things I think they will actually do, to make that same shirt more presentable.

Madden has been rocking that hideous shirt for 20+ years and I could of cared less about their whole outfit until 6 years ago, when hanging out with them became the only way to play NFL video games.

Obviously, you do what you want, but my $.02, Tiburon isn't likely to change much of anything (the game has played extremely similar for at least 10yrs now), regardless if it's a drastic change or an easy one, so why waste time giving them your C level input? Give them your A level input. If they don't listen, that's their prerogative, but you've done your job as a member of the community. Given constructive feedback. What they do with it is out of your control.

You never know. Maybe the stars align and they actually like something you have to say.

You say that as if any request for change in Madden just falls on deaf ears but I don't agree. I have seen them add things like broadcast cam, correct equipment and dreads because people rallied behind them and they were not too drastic a change. That is the same way I am approaching the current passing mechanic. Not because I am some wide eyed optimist "wishing on a star" but because I am practical person that has seen this approach work before.

I have a pretty good idea about your take on EA concerning Madden and I respect it. However, I would rather take a practical approach trying to improve things than a potentially cynical "que sera sera" approach.