Is madden building on a broken foundation?

[roadman]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

And? It's no different than working within a budget and not spending beyond your means. Which it seems is pretty much what every other developer out there is doing. To me it sounds like a person spending the bulk of their budget on clothes then complaining they don't have enough left for food. The first few NBA Live's this generation were going down the same path, placing a disproportionate amount of emphasis on the players on the court than on the environment surrounding the players - they quickly changed that tune primarily because of what their competition was doing. I'm pretty sure we'd have seen the same from Madden if they had to deal with similar circumstances. While Madden is certainly a pretty game, it's not so beautiful that it's other visual issues like animations and lack of peripheral detail can be ignored.

I agree with most of this, but you can't ignore the improvements made from 11 to 12, either.

And Smoke, if you don't like the direction Madden is headed, then don't buy it or rent it.

I don't purchase more than 2 to 3 games/year and not any outside the sports arena, so, I'll need to take your word for it about the other games. I have 0 opinion on those.

I feel strongly that the broadcast cameras will be enough to hold my interest.

[raz77]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

APF did 22 players on the field AND realtime refs AND realtime sidelines (I'd guess) because they took the approach of allocating resources appropriately for such things. They were kinda doing that last generation w/2K4 & 2K5. It's obvious such things can be done with the "limited" hardware resources available. Tiburon seems to have taken the approach placing a disproportionate amount of resources into the 22 players on the field, and the result is what we see today. We're seeing developers across the board make some pretty spectacular games this generation, on both systems. Hardware resources aren't the problem.

I have to agree. I feel madden kinda went about things backwards which is why a lot of areas got both better and worse looking over this gen. The basics never really got nailed down first so we got super high res jerseys before players with correct proportions. Then we got the 3D grass in 07 when things like getting the refs on the field and the field goal nets weren't done. Meanwhile you had people skating and warping all over the place which made the game look pretty weird in motion(Props to Ian for trying to tackle that in his time there) while more and more detail was poured into or taken away from various areas.

So basically it seemed like a dive right into the super high detail the new consoles could provide without making sure very basic things like having the correct personnel and equipment on the field or making sure they move and look like human beings were done.

[bkrich83]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

So basically it seemed like a dive right into the super high detail the new consoles could provide without making sure very basic things like having the correct personnel and equipment on the field or making sure they move and look like human beings were done.

I think that's a fair assessment.

[mojo6911]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

Tbh of all my issues with Madden graphics aren't one of them. I'd rather they spent more resources on the players. I could care less what the crowd or the players on the sideline look like.

If I had to chose I am glad they emphasize on the field graphics. Graphically the biggest issue for me is their color palette particularly the darker colors like navy blue or emerald green. They tend to look bland or washed out.

Now if we want to talk X's and O's or franchise mode I got a pile of gripes to unload.

The problem is that nearly every aspect of the game is broken. Penalties, Ratings, Speed, Robotic running game, Line interaction, WR/DB interaction, Online Franchise, Sidelines, etc.

[warrior7807]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

i dont think the issue will be resolved until the next generation of consoles. if they were to rebuild now it would be a lost cause IMO

[bkrich83]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

The problem is that nearly every aspect of the game is broken. Penalties, Ratings, Speed, Robotic running game, Line interaction, WR/DB interaction, Online Franchise, Sidelines, etc.

That wasn't what we were talking about not to mention several of those are debatable at best.

[Armor and Sword]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

The problem is that nearly every aspect of the game is broken. Penalties, Ratings, Speed, Robotic running game, Line interaction, WR/DB interaction, Online Franchise, Sidelines, etc.

The biggest cliche I have ever seen about posts on sports games.

Maybe it's broken for you. But their are millions of people who do not find the game broken. I have said it so many times in the past. You either are a Madden player or your not.

The game IMO has had the same (foundation and style) feel for over 15 years strong (ever since the move to PS1). On this gen of consoles it has been a rocky ride no question. But with 10, 11 and now 12 the game is hitting it's stride.

You either like it or you don't. It is not changing drastically (gameplay feel and look) for those who are stuck in the 2K mind set. I don't want a flame war to break out but I just scratch my head at stuff like this. The game is not broken. Is it amazing? No. Is Madden 12 going to be the best Madden to date...my money will be on yes. And I say this because Madden 11 was the most fun I have had with Madden since PS2 2007 and the improvements from 11 to 12 are going to be huge. A much deeper franchise mode, DPP, HDR lighting, Broadcast Cameras galore etc etc etc. This is going to be the Madden that I at least have been waiting for on the New Gen consoles. It took them a little longer to get here than on PS2 but the PS2/XBOX Maddens had some severe growing pains with 2001-2003. Things really got better with Madden 2010.

Anyway off my soap box.

[43M]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

The problem is that nearly every aspect of the game is broken. Penalties, Ratings, Speed, Robotic running game, Line interaction, WR/DB interaction, Online Franchise, Sidelines, etc.

Im far from a Madden apologist, but this is complete bunk.

Either you are simply hating or have no idea what "broken" actually is.

Some of those things arent up to par, but the only one Id say is "broken" is penalties, because they are virtually non existent for some reason.

Ratings are not broken. Do they affect the game like they should? Not all of them, but the ratings system has improved drastically. It always makes me laugh when people say last gens ratings were better when they were definitely not.

Robotic running game doesnt mean its broken....it doesnt feel natural, I agree, but its definitely not "broken".

Line interaction is far from perfect, but again, its much better than it has been in the past and not broken at all.

WR/DB interaction...to a point, AT TIMES, you could make a case that its broken, so I wont harp on that. But this years game looks like it improved on it a bit.

Online franchise may be lame, but its far from perfect. Tons of people still enjoy it. Offline franchise was just addressed this year. Offline franchise is more important than online, so Im sure more stuff will be added in time as they get offline chise up to par.

Not sure what you mean by sidelines.

Madden isnt even close to where it should be, but a broken game is virtually unplayable. People who act like Madden is THAT bad obviously never played ACTUAL "broken" games.

To answer the OP...its not a broken foundation, but it is completely outdated and limits how good the game can actually be. IMO, there is no chance the actual gameplay will ever be much better until they start over, which wont be until next gen 3-4 years from now. And if they start off bad again, well....could be looking at a repeat.

Not bashing EA, but I really hope they lose the NFL license by then. Compeition is needed to make these games better.

[Broncos86]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

IMO, considering how far Madden has come with madden 10, 11, and now 12, I think vast improvement is on the way and can still be made. Run-blocking is a prime example of how quickly it was fixed.

[mjhyankees]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

I get my $60 worth even when the game isn't stellar.

Later

Certainly I"ve got my money's worth on M11. Play constantly.

[kjcheezhead]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

The biggest cliche I have ever seen about posts on sports games.

Maybe it's broken for you. But their are millions of people who do not find the game broken. I have said it so many times in the past. You either are a Madden player or your not.

The game IMO has had the same (foundation and style) feel for over 15 years strong (ever since the move to PS1). On this gen of consoles it has been a rocky ride no question. But with 10, 11 and now 12 the game is hitting it's stride.

You either like it or you don't. It is not changing drastically (gameplay feel and look) for those who are stuck in the 2K mind set. I don't want a flame war to break out but I just scratch my head at stuff like this.The game is not broken. Is it amazing? No. Is Madden 12 going to be the best Madden to date...my money will be on yes. And I say this because Madden 11 was the most fun I have had with Madden since PS2 2007 and the improvements from 11 to 12 are going to be huge. A much deeper franchise mode, DPP, HDR lighting, Broadcast Cameras galore etc etc etc. This is going to be the Madden that I at least have been waiting for on the New Gen consoles. It took them a little longer to get here than on PS2 but the PS2/XBOX Maddens had some severe growing pains with 2001-2003. Things really got better with Madden 2010.

Anyway off my soap box.

Gotta disagree on the bold part. Madden 10 made some improvements in keys areas and was a huge upgrade over the nighmare years of 06-09, Madden 11 however, lost ground in so many areas that I found it well...not technically "broken", but too frustrating and downright boring to bother to play. Now the jury is very much still out on 12, the demo hasn't even dropped yet and while at times it looks improved, at other times it looks indistinguishable from madden 11.

To say the team is "hitting their stride" after a mediocre Madden 10, a horribly arcadish Madden 11, and not even playing a down of Madden 12 is a bit premature.

[bucky60]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

one has very limited availability in terms of memory and capabilities. No I'm not gonna say which one.. it doesn't matter, it is what it is. You have to remember that they are programming on hardware that was outdated within a month of when it was released.

Solved by making it available for the PC w/o the console limitations.

[TheDelta]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

To say the team is "hitting their stride" after a mediocre Madden 10, a horribly arcadish Madden 11, and not even playing a down of Madden 12 is a bit premature.

Well not everyone agrees with this. For me, personally, M11 felt like a step forward from M10, if not a huge one, and I know there are many who feel the same way. So yes, right now I got the feeling they're moving in the right direction.

[Broncos86]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

Gotta disagree on the bold part. Madden 10 made some improvements in keys areas and was a huge upgrade over the nighmare years of 06-09, Madden 11 however, lost ground in so many areas that I found it well...not technically "broken", but too frustrating and downright boring to bother to play. Now the jury is very much still out on 12, the demo hasn't even dropped yet and while at times it looks improved, at other times it looks indistinguishable from madden 11.

To say the team is "hitting their stride" after a mediocre Madden 10, a horribly arcadish Madden 11, and not even playing a down of Madden 12 is a bit premature.

You won't like M12, unless you play franchise mode and sim every game.

[jobforacreebree]

Re: Is madden building on a broken foundation?

One thing that I'd love to see come to Madden would be a real time physics engine that actually works in a realistic sense. If racing games can do it nearly perfectly, why can't a football game?

That aside, I do think a lot of the foundation for this franchise needs to be scrapped and the series reworked from the ground up. Probably won't happen until there's a dip in sales (a significant one) or competition.