2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

[Blzer]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

Wouldn't take much for EA to send 2k a cease and desist related to any sort of game they think could compete with them. Good luck to 2k for getting over any sort of legal dispute over the semantics of what the word "simulation" means.

Yeah, but what if they make a carbon-copy NFL Blitz game, they make ten times more money than Madden does, and out of feeling threatened EA still issues that C&D order? After all, the semantics of "simulation" isn't so easily definable.

Obviously that is an extreme example, but this is what I don't like about this thing. It's like the gray area of the MPAA delivering certain film ratings. I know they have their definitions and thresholds, but it's not always so easily black-and-white from the outside looking in. I know a movie with three F-bombs that is still PG-13 (Dunkirk is one), and plenty of movies without any that are R-rated (The Matrix, for example).

Hopefully 2K knows exactly what they can and can't do so EA doesn't come swooping in after as a result of whatever happens, or so they don't somehow pay more money to strengthen the verbiage later.

[testorz]

Re: Take Two, NFLPA Officially Announce Partnership

Main question now is what does "non-simulation" mean? Since they said more info will be revealed at later deal, I expect to hear more info on games starting end of this year to early next year.

Going slightly off-topic, seeing the OneTeam helped facilitate licensing deal, I wonder if they could help facilitate a NIL licensing deal for college athletes for a potential return of NCAA sports titles if NCAA lightens up and allows group licensing in NIL bill.

That's my question as well and I'm going to guess it means a game in the vain of NFL Street or something similar.

Funny thing is EA has exclusive rights to "sim NFL games" and Madden is anything but a sim. It's a hybrid in my opinion.

[SmashMan]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

After all, the semantics of "simulation" isn't so easily definable.

For us.

But for the parties who negotiated and the lawyers who wrote the contracts? I’d be shocked if there weren’t specific guidelines spelled out.

[canes21]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

Yeah, but what if they make a carbon-copy NFL Blitz game, they make ten times more money than Madden does, and out of feeling threatened EA still issues that C&D order? After all, the semantics of "simulation" isn't so easily definable.

Obviously that is an extreme example, but this is what I don't like about this thing. It's like the gray area of the MPAA delivering certain film ratings. I know they have their definitions and thresholds, but it's not always so easily black-and-white from the outside looking in. I know a movie with three F-bombs that is still PG-13 (Dunkirk is one), and plenty of movies without any that are R-rated (The Matrix, for example).

Hopefully 2K knows exactly what they can and can't do so EA doesn't come swooping in after as a result of whatever happens, or so they don't somehow pay more money to strengthen the verbiage later.

I think if there is one thing we are safe to assume, it's that 2k, EA, and the NFL all have a list of items that are allowed and not allowed in 2k's game to maintain non-simulation. It's silly to think that they're saying the word simulation, but there's nothing written as to what that means.



As soon as 2k was in talks with getting the non-sim license I guarantee they knew exactly what they could and couldn't do with their game.

[steeleye5]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

Yeah, but what if they make a carbon-copy NFL Blitz game, they make ten times more money than Madden does, and out of feeling threatened EA still issues that C&D order? After all, the semantics of "simulation" isn't so easily definable.

Obviously that is an extreme example, but this is what I don't like about this thing. It's like the gray area of the MPAA delivering certain film ratings. I know they have their definitions and thresholds, but it's not always so easily black-and-white from the outside looking in. I know a movie with three F-bombs that is still PG-13 (Dunkirk is one), and plenty of movies without any that are R-rated (The Matrix, for example).

Hopefully 2K knows exactly what they can and can't do so EA doesn't come swooping in after as a result of whatever happens, or so they don't somehow pay more money to strengthen the verbiage later.

I would be willing to bet that it has been outlined very clearly as to what kind of game they can make and what kind of game they cannot make. I don't think 2k is stupid enough to enter a deal like this without exact verbiage so it's open for interpretation for everyone involved which ends up with them getting sued, cease and desist, and everything else in between.

This information just hasn't been made available to the public which is why we're sitting here speculating on what it could be. It's anyone guess at this point, which some have been good and others not so much. My hope is that we get thoroughly surprised, but the game also gives 2k a good base to expand upon in the future. Hopefully, something comes out about it soon but until then we can only speculate.

[khaliib]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

The EA deal does not give exclusivity to making an 11vs11 football game.
Neither EA nor NFL or NCAA “own” legal exclusivity to American style football.
They simply have legality over the Teams/Logos of their respective leagues, that’s it.

Maximum Football is evident that an 11vs11 American football is viable.

The NFLPA and it’s players are a separate entity/product and 2K can reflect that product as accurately as they choose, meaning their models don’t have to be in a cartoonish Blitz Football manner.

2nd since there’s revenue involved that’s geared strictly towards the Players whom are always in constant battles with NFL owners for more inclusive piece of the NFL money pie, it stands to believe that this financial deal for the players wouldn’t come about with a bunch of limitations imposed by these same NFL owners.

26yrs ago at my Chargers tryout, the talk was players felt the OVR $$$ distribution should be at least a 55/45% split in favor of the players since they drive the sport.
- can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard players say around this topic, “we are the league”
- the new CBA for players is looking at 48.5-48.8% increase.

Naturally owners are not going to go for that so what we’re seeing today with these large contract with so much guaranteed up front dollars, is players forcing NFL owners to pull more out their piece of the revenue pie to assist with Cap increases to support these big player contracts from their top marketing players.

I’m sure the EA/NFL Licensing deal gave the NFLPA a small revenue piece, but this deal with 2K is definitely geared towards the players.

Even with all this and not knowing any of the specific verbiage, still will have to wait and see how 2K intends to use the Licensing deal.

[jbrew2411]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

I love how we all get stuck on what the meaning of "simulation football" means. I am not a lawyer nor I have I read the entire contract EA and the NFL signed, but I do use EA and the NFL agreement in teaching my Economics class. We do a case study each year no exclusive agreements and monopoly laws. I use EA as an example as most all my students play Madden. All the resources I have found on the deal between EA and the NFL is that EA has the exclusive right to make a football game using the NFL logo, NFL teams, and NFL owned properties and rights (ie Super Bowl, or Stadiums).

I have yet to find anything that said they are the only ones that can make a football game with real football rules. This allows for games like Maximum Football and Axis Football to enter the market place. They are a simulation of football but they are not a simulation of the NFL.

Whatever 2K is making they are banking on the fact people will be more out to buy their game if they have real players but with fake teams. I have seen videos of Maximum Football where people used their logo editor to add NFL logos. I would not think a small company like Canuck would risk lawsuit because it would put them out of business.

I for one would buy a game with real players with fake teams if it has a good franchise mode.

[canes21]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

I love how we all get stuck on what the meaning of "simulation football" means. I am not a lawyer nor I have I read the entire contract EA and the NFL signed, but I do use EA and the NFL agreement in teaching my Economics class. We do a case study each year no exclusive agreements and monopoly laws. I use EA as an example as most all my students play Madden. All the resources I have found on the deal between EA and the NFL is that EA has the exclusive right to make a football game using the NFL logo, NFL teams, and NFL owned properties and rights (ie Super Bowl, or Stadiums).

I have yet to find anything that said they are the only ones that can make a football game with real football rules. This allows for games like Maximum Football and Axis Football to enter the market place. They are a simulation of football but they are not a simulation of the NFL.

Whatever 2K is making they are banking on the fact people will be more out to buy their game if they have real players but with fake teams. I have seen videos of Maximum Football where people used their logo editor to add NFL logos. I would not think a small company like Canuck would risk lawsuit because it would put them out of business.

I for one would buy a game with real players with fake teams if it has a good franchise mode.

I don't necessarily think 2k is going to be banking on people buying a game with real players and fake teams. They went out and got the NFL license and struck a deal with the PA. They would need both of those secured to make an NFL Playgrounds game. If 2k's plan was to create a simulation game with NFL players, but fake teams, then why go out and secure the NFL license also? It only makes sense if 2k is going to release two different games each year, but I don't think thats what is going to happen. I want it to, but I don't expect 2k to make NFL Playgrounds and another sim game with real players.

[Pray_iv_m3rcy]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

I'm not so quick to imagine player models that look like NFL Blitz. I mean why get the NFLPA license if you cant use a players likeness?

[canes21]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

I'm not so quick to imagine player models that look like NFL Blitz. I mean why get the NFLPA license if you cant use a players likeness?

They still need the agreement with the PA to use real NFL players even if they made NFL Blitz type models.

[kehlis]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

I love how we all get stuck on what the meaning of "simulation football" means. I am not a lawyer nor I have I read the entire contract EA and the NFL signed, but I do use EA and the NFL agreement in teaching my Economics class. We do a case study each year no exclusive agreements and monopoly laws. I use EA as an example as most all my students play Madden. All the resources I have found on the deal between EA and the NFL is that EA has the exclusive right to make a football game using the NFL logo, NFL teams, and NFL owned properties and rights (ie Super Bowl, or Stadiums).

I have yet to find anything that said they are the only ones that can make a football game with real football rules. This allows for games like Maximum Football and Axis Football to enter the market place. They are a simulation of football but they are not a simulation of the NFL.

Whatever 2K is making they are banking on the fact people will be more out to buy their game if they have real players but with fake teams. I have seen videos of Maximum Football where people used their logo editor to add NFL logos. I would not think a small company like Canuck would risk lawsuit because it would put them out of business.

I for one would buy a game with real players with fake teams if it has a good franchise mode.

We're stuck on what simulation means because that is the only term and specific we know. You haven't read the contract because it isn't public.

Question for you though, why would 2K have paid to acquire the NFL license if they were planning on a game they couldn't use it with?

If I'm understanding your premise, that is what you're suggesting they are planning on doing.

[Grey_Osprey]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

It would be interesting to know how "sim" is defined by EA, the NFL, and NFLPA. Is MUT, Superstar KO, or Draft Champions sim? Or what about Super Mega Baseball? Is that considered "sim"?

You would think they've done their homework and have a good idea what they can and can't do, and how far they can push the "non-simulation" aspect. May end up being a corny mobile game, but I'm curious to see how this plays out.

[Blzer]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

We're stuck on what simulation means because that is the only term and specific we know. You haven't read the contract because it isn't public.

Question for you though, why would 2K have paid to acquire the NFL license if they were planning on a game they couldn't use it with?

If I'm understanding your premise, that is what you're suggesting they are planning on doing.

It could be that they're making multiple games. One of them could be like what jbrew2411 mentioned, and then another could be a Playgrounds-like arcade format.

[kehlis]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

It could be that they're making multiple games. One of them could be like what jbrew2411 mentioned, and then another could be a Playgrounds-like arcade format.

So to play this back.

They finally got a new agreement with the NFL.

We know there is an agreement with EA to make the only "simulation" game.


And you realistically think 2K is going to be a rebel and create a simulation game with stipulations? Just play that through for a second because it makes zero sense.

(Think about it from a business perspective, not a consumer perspective)

[canes21]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

So to play this back.

They finally got a new agreement with the NFL.

We know there is an agreement with EA to make the only "simulation" game.


And you realistically think 2K is going to be a rebel and create a simulation game with stipulations? Just play that through for a second because it makes zero sense.

(Think about it from a business perspective, not a consumer perspective)

Only way I see it being a possibility is if the NFL gave 2k the go ahead to do something along these lines. Go make a simulation football game with no NFL branding, but only NFL players. Prove you can make a quality football game and then a few years down the line when the license with EA expires the NFL will make it non-exclusive for a certain price.

Now do I actually see this as being what happened? No.

We're getting NFL Playgrounds and maybe a card game. I don't expect anything else.