2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

[kehlis]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

Only way I see it being a possibility is if the NFL gave 2k the go ahead to do something along these lines. Go make a simulation football game with no NFL branding, but only NFL players. Prove you can make a quality football game and then a few years down the line when the license with EA expires the NFL will make it non-exclusive for a certain price.

Now do I actually see this as being what happened? No.

We're getting NFL Playgrounds and maybe a card game. I don't expect anything else.

Everything about this makes sense other than the fact that 2k is paying for the NFL license. Not sure why they would take on that expense for an unproven game and not using the NFL license they are paying for.

[canes21]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

Everything about this makes sense other than the fact that 2k is paying for the NFL license. Not sure why they would take on that expense for an unproven game and not using the NFL license they are paying for.

The NFL license would be for NFL Playgrounds in this hypothetical situation if they were creating that along with the simulation game that had generic branding with real players.

[Blzer]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

So to play this back.

They finally got a new agreement with the NFL.

We know there is an agreement with EA to make the only "simulation" game.


And you realistically think 2K is going to be a rebel and create a simulation game with stipulations? Just play that through for a second because it makes zero sense.

(Think about it from a business perspective, not a consumer perspective)

No, I don't. Hopefully you saw my earlier post using the lemonade analogy. I think they want to maintain a good partnership with the NFL, and using their efforts on a backdoor might not necessarily bode very well with that.

I was just suggesting that could be a reason for somebody to sign both licenses but not necessarily use them synchronously.

[tsbmolina]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

I love how we all get stuck on what the meaning of "simulation football" means. I am not a lawyer nor I have I read the entire contract EA and the NFL signed, but I do use EA and the NFL agreement in teaching my Economics class. We do a case study each year no exclusive agreements and monopoly laws. I use EA as an example as most all my students play Madden. All the resources I have found on the deal between EA and the NFL is that EA has the exclusive right to make a football game using the NFL logo, NFL teams, and NFL owned properties and rights (ie Super Bowl, or Stadiums).

I have yet to find anything that said they are the only ones that can make a football game with real football rules. This allows for games like Maximum Football and Axis Football to enter the market place. They are a simulation of football but they are not a simulation of the NFL.

Whatever 2K is making they are banking on the fact people will be more out to buy their game if they have real players but with fake teams. I have seen videos of Maximum Football where people used their logo editor to add NFL logos. I would not think a small company like Canuck would risk lawsuit because it would put them out of business.

I for one would buy a game with real players with fake teams if it has a good franchise mode.

My thoughts on what differentiates simulation from arcade is the accuracy of stats and physics within the game. For example in Tecmo Bowl you could make an 80 yard run breaking tackles left and right. You could run for 300 yards or pass for 600 yards in one game doing things in an exaggerated way but still having the fun of football just not an actual simulation because of the inflated stats. I think 2K's football game will be 11on11 just the players will have superpower abilities therefore making it arcade.

[canes21]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

My thoughts on what differentiates simulation from arcade is the accuracy of stats and physics within the game. For example in Tecmo Bowl you could make an 80 yard run breaking tackles left and right. You could run for 300 yards or pass for 600 yards in one game doing things in an exaggerated way but still having the fun of football just not an actual simulation because of the inflated stats. I think 2K's football game will be 11on11 just the players will have superpower abilities therefore making it arcade.

Madden already has super powers in their simulation game, though.

[kehlis]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

My thoughts on what differentiates simulation from arcade is the accuracy of stats and physics within the game. For example in Tecmo Bowl you could make an 80 yard run breaking tackles left and right. You could run for 300 yards or pass for 600 yards in one game doing things in an exaggerated way but still having the fun of football just not an actual simulation because of the inflated stats. I think 2K's football game will be 11on11 just the players will have superpower abilities therefore making it arcade.

Our interpretation of what simulation means is 1000% irrelevant.

[canes21]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

Another thing that doesn’t make sense to me is why would the NFLPA piss off one of their (if not their) longest tenured business partner by allowing that to happen?


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

EA? The NFLPA can piss off EA as much as they want, EA is still going to come and get the rights to use all of the players in Madden. Madden is going nowhere and the NFL and the NFLPA have a ridiculous amount of power on their side with regards to EA.

[Kanobi]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

So to play this back.

They finally got a new agreement with the NFL.

We know there is an agreement with EA to make the only "simulation" game.


And you realistically think 2K is going to be a rebel and create a simulation game with stipulations?

Take-Two wouldn't be "rebelling" against anything. They don't need the NFL's blessing to make a pro football simulation with the NFLPA. Those are two seperate entities and thus two seperate contractual agreements.

If 2k's plan was to create a simulation game with NFL players, but fake teams, then why go out and secure the NFL license also? It only makes sense if 2k is going to release two different games each year, but I don't think that's what is going to happen.

Given Saber Interactive's previous pattern with major sports-licensed titles (namely NBA Playgrounds and now WWE Battlegrounds), their NFL game would not be an annual release. So, if anything the NFL "Playgrounds" title would release in 2021 and the NFLPA-licensed sim football title 2022.

[SmashMan]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

EA? The NFLPA can piss off EA as much as they want, EA is still going to come and get the rights to use all of the players in Madden. Madden is going nowhere and the NFL and the NFLPA have a ridiculous amount of power on their side with regards to EA.

He (hypothetically, I’m assuming) asked why they would, not if they could. Obviously they could, but if they’re happy with their current deal why would they? What’s the incentive?

[canes21]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

He (hypothetically, I’m assuming) asked why they would, not if they could. Obviously they could, but if they’re happy with their current deal why would they? What’s the incentive?

In this hypothetical situation the incentive would be making more money for the players while knowing full well that EA is basically going to need your PA for Madden because we all know full well EA would never make Madden without the real players.

[Blzer]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

Another thing that doesn’t make sense to me is why would the NFLPA piss off one of their (if not their) longest tenured business partner by allowing that to happen?


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

As far as my opinionated *** is concerned, the only thing the NFL has ever gotten from EA is their money, and nothing else like "a good game" or "awesome representation of their product."

What does the NFL gain by bringing 2K back into the picture? More money, for one. But again, as far as my opinionated *** is concerned, they are also getting: (1) a different kind of product; (2) potentially a better product than Madden; (3) perhaps a better partner to deal with six years from now.

For the past 15 years, I've been asking why the NFL would turn their back on 2K and do the deal with EA. Besides money, I didn't know they shed any animosity in 2K's way until just a couple of days ago. Here's to hoping that can be mended, and we can see 2K be a proud partner of theirs again.

Given Saber Interactive's previous pattern with major sports-licensed titles (namely NBA Playgrounds and now WWE Battlegrounds), their NFL game would not be an annual release. So, if anything the NFL "Playgrounds" title would release in 2021 and the NFLPA-licensed sim football title 2022.

If this is the route they took, this would be my guess as well. If eight months from now all we hear about is a Playgrounds game, I'm still holding onto hope they're doing something else with the NFLPA license down the line.

However...

Take-Two wouldn't be "rebelling" against anything. They don't need the NFL's blessing to make a pro football simulation with the NFLPA. Those are two seperate entities and thus two seperate contractual agreements.

If a football sim with real players and team/stadium/league customization to simulate a NFL season/franchise knockoff, that would certainly be ruffling feathers.

[kehlis]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

Take-Two wouldn't be "rebelling" against anything. They don't need the NFL's blessing to make a pro football simulation with the NFLPA. Those are two seperate entities and thus two seperate contractual agreements.

So do you believe EA would be okay if 2K put together anything close to what we would consider to be a simulation?

I really respect your opinion but I can't imagine you think this is a realistic proposition.

[J_Posse]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

So do you believe EA would be okay if 2K put together anything close to what we would consider to be a simulation?

I really respect your opinion but I can't imagine you think this is a realistic proposition.

Look, this has happened in the past - when EA made Madden 64 sans the NFL license which was held by Acclaim & the Quarterback Club game on Nintendo 64 - and the NFL gladly continued to work with EA.

Now, that doesn't mean it is likely to happen again or that the NFL would be pleased if 2K made this move. It just shows that these situations have occurred in the past & nothing would legally be stopping Take - Two from doing so if they chose to.

The NFL had the ability to make the license non-exclusive, but decided to remain with their longest tenured partner (that makes sense). Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on your perspective, that leaves a desire in the market for competition that indie development houses (Axis & Canuck Sports) & 2K Sports are or may attempt to fill.

The marketing & branding without the official NFL shield would be difficult, but I don't believe it is impossible.

And they could still "appease" the NFL by pushing a solid SuperCard & "Playgrounds" esque title with official NFL branding, teams & logos.

How EA "feels" about it is actually irrelevant since Take-Two has come to terms with the necessary license holders. That doesn't involve EA IF - huge if - they decide to greenlight a APF sequel and they've (meaning EA) done everything in the past to remove Take - Two/2K Sports from the market.

Blocking them from signing more HOF'ers, snatching up the Arena & NCAA licenses (which were exclusive for a time). Even the rumors of "hostile takeover" years ago similar to the bull**** they attempted with Ubisoft.

So, I'm sure the executives at Take - Two & 2K Sports could give two, three, four or a million ****s about how EA "feels."

Pardon if my tone comes across as hostile. That is in no way my intention but the reality is EA has dreaded the day Take - Two/2K Sports/Visual Concepts (if they are a development house assigned to one of the games) would return to the football space. In particular with any NFL or NFLPA licensing in tow.

They could settle for small fries like NFL Playgrounds & NFL SuperCard, but they'll eventually want something with a wider scope that can be monetized, IMO. Like NBA 2K & the much maligned MyCareer, MyTeam & Park experiences.

Official HQ of Bills Backer/Spurs Nation

[Kanobi]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

So do you believe EA would be okay if 2K put together anything close to what we would consider to be a simulation?

I really respect your opinion but I can't imagine you think this is a realistic proposition.

If Take-Two used the NFLPA license to make a pro football "sim" using current players (with fictional teams, stadiums, logos, etc) then legally EA couldn't do anything about it.

Based on what we know, it is only if Take-Two attempted a football "sim" using the NFL license that EA would have legal grounds to intervene.

[kehlis]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

Look, this has happened in the past - when EA made Madden 64 sans the NFL license which was held by Acclaim & the Quarterback Club game on Nintendo 64 - and the NFL gladly continued to work with EA.

Now, that doesn't mean it is likely to happen again or that the NFL would be pleased if 2K made this move. It just shows that these situations have occurred in the past & nothing would legally be stopping Take - Two from doing so if they chose to.

The NFL had the ability to make the license non-exclusive, but decided to remain with their longest tenured partner (that makes sense). Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on your perspective, that leaves a desire in the market for competition that indie development houses (Axis & Canuck Sports) & 2K Sports are or may attempt to fill.

The marketing & branding without the official NFL shield would be difficult, but I don't believe it is impossible.

And they could still "appease" the NFL by pushing a solid SuperCard & "Playgrounds" esque title with official NFL branding, teams & logos.

How EA "feels" about it is actually irrelevant since Take-Two has come to terms with the necessary license holders. That doesn't involve EA IF - huge if - they decide to greenlight a APF sequel and they've (meaning EA) done everything in the past to remove Take - Two/2K Sports from the market.

Blocking them from signing more HOF'ers, snatching up the Arena & NCAA licenses (which were exclusive for a time). Even the rumors of "hostile takeover" years ago similar to the bull**** they attempted with Ubisoft.

So, I'm sure the executives at Take - Two & 2K Sports could give two, three, four or a million ****s about how EA "feels."

Pardon if my tone comes across as hostile. That is in no way my intention but the reality is EA has dreaded the day Take - Two/2K Sports/Visual Concepts (if they are a development house assigned to one of the games) would return to the football space. In particular with any NFL or NFLPA licensing in tow.

They could settle for small fries like NFL Playgrounds & NFL SuperCard, but they'll eventually want something with a wider scope that can be monetized, IMO. Like NBA 2K & the much maligned MyCareer, MyTeam & Park experiences.

Official HQ of Bills Backer/Spurs Nation

If Take-Two used the NFLPA license to make a pro football "sim" using current players (with fictional teams, stadiums, logos, etc) then legally EA couldn't do anything about it.



Based on what we know, it is only if Take-Two attempted a football "sim" using the NFL license that EA would have legal grounds to intervene.

Let me know when it happens.