2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

[mestevo]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

I'm sure they will be made aware of anything that would infringe on the agreement - by the NFL, news outlets or an "inside" source - but I doubt these companies, especially 2 with such heated history, are in the business of "informing" each other of their development plans or goings on.

If anything the parameters were already set forth when they inked their deals with the NFL & NFLPA, respectively. I doubt those negotiations had anything involving EA "monitoring" their titles development(s) or what their future titles even are.

Official HQ of Bills Backer/Spurs Nation

I think this position is a bit far into the weeds, why does it matter how anyone finds out about the title? Just such an odd point to debate.

If it infringes on EA's contract with the NFL (either by being too much of a simulation game or by creating consumer confusion w/ a NFLPA-only 'not NFL' sim title) I think we can all agree billable hours will be had by all.

[J_Posse]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

I think this position is a bit far into the weeds, why does it matter how anyone finds out about the title? Just such an odd point to debate.

If it infringes on EA's contract with the NFL (either by being too much of a simulation game or by creating consumer confusion w/ a NFLPA-only 'not NFL' sim title) I think we can all agree billable hours will be had by all.

Not my point at all. My point is they won't be giving EA a "progress report" or stating to them (their competitor) what they plan on doing with their current licenses. They will find out just like the rest of us when 2K announces their first official title(s).

What "consumer confusion" would a non-NFL title (meaning it will have no NFL branding or in it's moniker) create? That is a silly point to make, my man.

I'm sure most consumers are aware of Madden NFL & whatever 2K makes with or without the NFL branding will be that "other 2K football game."

Not that hard to understand. And how would a game that doesn't have the NFL insignia or branding warrant EA "billing" their lawyers?

This situation has happened countless times in the past, especially in the 8-bit & 16-bit era, yet people are behaving like this is brand new or unprecedented. The main difference, just like in 2007, is Take - Two & 2K Sports will again be constrained, if they so chose, to make a title without the official NFL license & EA being the exclusive right's holder.



Official HQ of Bills Backer/Spurs Nation

[PVarck31]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

Not my point at all. My point is they won't be giving EA a "progress report" or stating to them (their competitor) what they plan on doing with their current licenses. They will find out just like the rest of us when 2K announces their first official title(s).

What "consumer confusion" would a non-NFL title (meaning it will have no NFL branding or in it's moniker) create? That is a silly point to make, my man.

I'm sure most consumers are aware of Madden NFL & whatever 2K makes with or without the NFL branding will be that "other 2K football game."

Not that hard to understand. And how would a game that doesn't have the NFL insignia or branding warrant EA "billing" their lawyers?

This situation has happened countless times in the past, especially in the 8-bit & 16-bit era, yet people are behaving like this is brand new or unprecedented.

Official HQ of Bills Backer/Spurs Nation

You keep going way back to the 90s with sports games. During that time league and player licenses were there if you wanted to pay for them. Yes, some did just NFLPA and some just NFL. This was very common in the Genesis and SNES days.This situation is so much different. In today's world, litigation is so commonplace. Look how we lost the NCAA games. Because two college kids sued EA for having a players that resembled them in the game. We had college sports way back to the Nintendo days, but one misstep, and the wrong person comes along and it's over just like that.

My point is, I don't think people think it's impossible to do, I just think they are 99% sure it won't happen so there is no reason to keep going on about it. People see it as a risk Take-Two isn't willing to take. And they are probably right.

And unless I missed something, he wasn't suggesting the each company would be handing out progress reports to each other.

[ksuttonjr76]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

You keep going way back to the 90s with sports games. During that time league and player licenses were there if you wanted to pay for them. Yes, some did just NFLPA and some just NFL. This was very common in the Genesis and SNES days.This situation is so much different. In today's world, litigation is so commonplace. Look how we lost the NCAA games. Because two college kids sued EA for having a players that resembled them in the game. We had college sports way back to the Nintendo days, but one misstep, and the wrong person comes along and it's over just like that.



My point is, I don't think people think it's impossible to do, I just think they are 99% sure it won't happen so there is no reason to keep going on about it. People see it as a risk Take-Two isn't willing to take. And they are probably right.



And unless I missed something, he wasn't suggesting the each company would be handing out progress reports to each other.

If you're trying to make a 11v11 game then why bother?

[PVarck31]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

If you're trying to make a 11v11 game then why bother?

What point are you trying to make here? Why bother making a game if you can't have 11-11?

I said before. I don't think 11-11 defines sim. You can have NFL Backyard BBQ where you flip burgers for extra points from the 90 yard line and still have 11-11.

[canes21]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

Again, the "grey area" as you continue to state it could be an unlicensed pro football title with full backing by the NFLPA.

Again, just like what EA Sports previously did with Madden 64 which was unlicensed by the NFL - but had NFLPA licensing - because those rights were held by Acclaim & the NFL Quarterback Club title.

It really isn't difficult to understand how it COULD happen - that doesn't mean it will - and I'm starting to wonder why some individuals can't understand that.

Another option I would love for them to explore, especially on mobile titles or Switch, is a "spiritual successor" to Tecmo Bowl. Even if they aren't the holder's of that IP there still is a market for that type of arcade title.

Official HQ of Bills Backer/Spurs Nation

Nobody is saying that this isn't a possibility, or at least I certainly am not and do not see anyone saying this isn't possible. However, like PV already mentioned, you are referencing something that happened near 30 years ago when things were completely different.

The fact of the matter is that everyone is speculating right now because we have no info provided to us. Some people think they know what sim means, but they don't. The way sim is being used with these licenses is not the way sim is used by the consumers.

I know we are all excited that 2k is partnered with the NFL and NFLPA again. That is something to be excited about, but we all need to understand that 2k has 100% been told what they can and cannot do. It is within reason that they could have been told that they cannot make a simulation game with real players and no NFL branding. That could 100% be a part of their agreement with the NFL or even the NFLPA.

It is also within reason that they are free to make that type of game. It's even possible that the NFL partnered with 2k to allow a playgrounds game to be made as well as a card game and then also is giving 2k a trial period to make a sim game with real players and no NFL branding. In that scenario the NFL is still getting money from 2k and 2k is given a chance to show why the license should either be opened up or why they should get the exclusive rights in 6 years.

That is all possible. Nobody is denying it. Does it sound probable or likely? I don't necessarily think it does. I do think 2k wants back into the NFL game... obviously... but I think if we knew what their goal was, it would clear things up.

It is entirely possible that 2k wants to revive 2k in the future and this was their first step towards getting on good grounds with the NFL and NFLPA. It's entirely possible that 2k only wants to get a small share of the market with some arcade games that are simple and they have no desire to get back to producing NFL 2k. They might have a plan that gets them a little bit of money in a profitable manner and they see that little bit of profit better than having none and being worth the effort.

What's causing so many people to go back and forth right now is the fact that we have zero idea as to what is driving 2k right now and what simulation entails. If we had any idea as to what 2k's plans were or what type of game we were getting, we'd have something to discuss. Right now this thread is just a bunch of people going around in circles with speculation because we are all excited for 2k to be involved again.

My personal wishes are that 2k found a loophole and does create an authentic NFL game, or at the very least creates a sim game with real players.

My expectations are conflicted. I initially expected a playgrounds game and a card game. The only things giving me pause are the 2k rep using the word authentic in his press release, and then the fact that 2k plans to release games annually. That doesn't fit the playgrounds model, but maybe it does fit the card game, but I personally don't see 2k paying for the license just to release a playgrounds game or two plus a card game each year. I'm not sure what to expect exactly.

[jfsolo]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

You keep going way back to the 90s with sports games. During that time league and player licenses were there if you wanted to pay for them. Yes, some did just NFLPA and some just NFL. This was very common in the Genesis and SNES days.This situation is so much different. In today's world, litigation is so commonplace. Look how we lost the NCAA games. Because two college kids sued EA for having a players that resembled them in the game. We had college sports way back to the Nintendo days, but one misstep, and the wrong person comes along and it's over just like that.

My point is, I don't think people think it's impossible to do, I just think they are 99% sure it won't happen so there is no reason to keep going on about it. People see it as a risk Take-Two isn't willing to take. And they are probably right.

And unless I missed something, he wasn't suggesting the each company would be handing out progress reports to each other.

Yeah, in the past companies have made a game with either one of the licences, never has a company had both licenses and made two separate games one with one of the licences and another with the other.

Nor have they tried something even more audacious and made one game with both the licences and another game with just the one in order to try and circumvent the restrictions imposed by the other licence.

I know that peeps at Take Two gave the okay for the slot machines in NBA 2k during the height of the loot box/gambling fiasco, but this would be next level set of brass.

[J_Posse]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

You keep going way back to the 90s with sports games. During that time league and player licenses were there if you wanted to pay for them. Yes, some did just NFLPA and some just NFL. This was very common in the Genesis and SNES days.This situation is so much different. In today's world, litigation is so commonplace. Look how we lost the NCAA games. Because two college kids sued EA for having a players that resembled them in the game. We had college sports way back to the Nintendo days, but one misstep, and the wrong person comes along and it's over just like that.

My point is, I don't think people think it's impossible to do, I just think they are 99% sure it won't happen so there is no reason to keep going on about it. People see it as a risk Take-Two isn't willing to take. And they are probably right.

And unless I missed something, he wasn't suggesting the each company would be handing out progress reports to each other.

I'm quite aware it isn't the 90's anymore, thank you. And the loss of "amateur" sports videos games has a lot to do with the NCAA & their unwillingness to pay student athletes (who they make millions & billions off of). But, that is a separate can of worms that I frankly don't care as much about.

The reasons we don't see these type of deals or titles without complete licensing are many. Too numerous for me to go over, so I'll skip that issue, and go straight to PES. This, again, is another title that doesn't have full licensing of leagues and players - which are held by EA & their scary, big, bad lawyers that they only possess - yet the game still continues on (even while they lose more & more licenses to exclusivity & EA) with workarounds and "generic" teams/rosters.

So, again what would stop Take - Two/2K Sports from doing something similar if the threat of "litigation" isn't as big as y'all perceive it to be? Well, maybe it is cost of entry/re-acquiring licensing (NFL or NFLPA license probably ain't cheap), structuring a development team, development & also cost of acquiring assets (renders for stadiums, jerseys, player likenesses, etc.) is also very, very high.

So, why get into a partnership with the NFL when the cost of entry has, naturally, become astronomical thanks to the exclusive deal? They'll likely be losing money or hurt their quarterly projections (gotta appease those stockholders) if the SuperCard and/or "Playgrounds" flops. Then they are back in a "losing" deal similar to the one's they had with NHL & MLB.

The possibility - read that again, POSSIBILITY - exists that they could "go for broke" and try again with a APF - style title with a bigger budget, better marketing and an actual long-term strategy. Instead of the one - off, weak effort they gave us all last time.


I was clearly being facetious with the "progress report" line. In particular when people continue to claim that EA will be "made aware" or "told" what Take - Two/2K Sports has planned. And can admonish them or force them to change course, somehow.

Anyway, I was just having fun & speculating because the possibility of competition returning in the football space is so intriguing. Unfortunately, a lot of Debbie downers are taking this speculating too seriously & trying to temper other people's expectations. Especially with all the craziness in the world, and in the USA to be more specific, it had been fun.

I could see if I was arguing the case for IMV or some other vaporware product, but Take - Two/2K Sports have a track record in the football space.

Think I'll chill with speculating until concrete information is released & the "doubting Thomas's" can scream "see, I told you so."

Official HQ of Bills Backer/Spurs Nation

[J_Posse]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

Yeah, in the past companies have made a game with either one of the licences, never has a company had both licenses and made two separate games one with one of the licences and another with the other.

Nor have they tried something even more audacious and made one game with both the licences and another game with just the one in order to try and circumvent the restrictions imposed by the other licence.

I know that peeps at Take Two gave the okay for the slot machines in NBA 2k during the height of the loot box/gambling fiasco, but this would be next level set of brass.

Again, EA pulled a similar stunt back in the late 1990's with Madden 64. They couldn't use NFL licensing because that was held exclusively (on the N64) at the time by Acclaim & the NFL Quarterback Club title. This happened to them even though they had a working relationship with the NFL & held the NFL license on the original Playstation.

Of course, the big difference is their is a big, huge exclusivity contract that EA holds & they (apparently) have a lot of big, bad lawyers that have lost millions of dollars in likeness & anti-trust lawsuits.

Didn't the Take - Two lawyers win a judgement about tattoos that many, even a few lawyers on OS, swore they would lose? A similar lawsuit the "bad ***" EA lawyers **** the bed on and had to pay damages to Ricky Williams' tattoo artist. Anyway, I could give a **** about EA's legal team & that isn't the biggest hurdle.

The biggest hurdle would be making this licensing deal "profitable," the cost of developing a unlicensed pro football product in 2020 and, yes, endangering their new "friendly" partnership with the NFL.

A partnership that is or can be so tenuous that they'll shun a 10+ year partner(s) just because of a aggressive business tactic. Although, had that "cheap" pricing become the norm - it wasn't - their licensing agreements would have crashed in value.

Official HQ of Bills Backer/Spurs Nation

[kjcheezhead]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

This is all speculation of course and I see a lot of people saying they don’t see 2k endangering its new relationship with the NFL. But what if they aren’t endangering anything and they have been given a green light to make a non-NFL sim game?

2k and the NFL reaches this agreement roughly the same time EA and the NFL renewed the exclusive. There’s always the chance that during the EA/NFL negotiations the NFL realized they didn’t have as much leverage as they would’ve liked anymore. It takes years to make a football game with every mode gamers expect and no company is remotely close to competing with Madden.


This is actually a problem for the NFL at the moment. So they work out an agreement with 2k. 2k gets to make playgrounds and nonNFL sim with NFL players players. The NFL gets its exclusive contract money that it loves from EA regardless of whether Madden over or underperforms. Now the NFL also has leverage in its dealings with EA again. If EA ever balks at the NFLs asking price 2k has a game sitting there ready to be slapped with NFL logos.

The only real loser is EA but since they still have exclusive NFL rights they can’t say much anyways.


This is also classic NFL tactics. The NFL left Los Angeles without a team for years basically for leverage. Any time a city refused to build their team a new stadium, LA and it’s second biggest market share in the country was ready to take on that team. Now we have 2 Los Angeles teams and and empty San Diego and St Louis because those cities wouldn’t play ball with the NFL.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[kehlis]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

But what if they aren’t endangering anything and they have been given a green light to make a non-NFL sim game?

We don’t know much about the agreement but one thing we know is that part of the agreement there is exact verbiage that prevents 2K from making a simulation game.

[ksuttonjr76]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

We don’t know much about the agreement but one thing we know is that part of the agreement there is exact verbiage that prevents 2K from making a simulation game.

That's in the NFL agreement...

[mercalnd]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

We don’t know much about the agreement but one thing we know is that part of the agreement there is exact verbiage that prevents 2K from making a simulation game.

A simulation game with the NFL license that is. He is saying that perhaps the NFL knows and is is ok with 2K intending to make an NFLPA sim game along an NFL non-sim game. It seems unlikely but he does make some good points about leverage in future dealings.

[kjcheezhead]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

A simulation game with the NFL license that is. He is saying that perhaps the NFL knows and is is ok with 2K intending to make an NFLPA sim game along an NFL non-sim game. It seems unlikely but he does make some good points about leverage in future dealings.

I admit it’s a total guess with no evidence to back it up but is it really that unlikely?

Why would 2k get an agreement for just playgrounds and a card game? That wouldn’t make a ton of money, and playgrounds isn’t set up to be a yearly release.

According to the ESPN press release I read 2k is currently developing multiple games. So it’s not just playground anyways. Another game is in the works. Maybe the second is a card game but an APF type sim with real players seems very possible to be the second game. It fits 2ks development model and 2k doesn’t have to try and screw the NFL after just reaching an agreement with them for the first in years. In fact I think the NFL would benefit from this game


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[canes21]

Re: 2K Partners with NFLPA to Allow NFL Players in Multiple Football Games

That's been something thrown around a few times in here now. The speculation is going to cause us to all drive ourselves crazy haha.

I don't think it is out of reach for 2k to make a sim game with real players, but no NFL branding. I think they 100% would need to be greenlit by the NFL for that to happen, though.

It is entirely possible that the NFL sees how successful NBA 2k is. They might also wonder why Madden sells less than 2k despite the NFL being so much more popular. This might be a reason they would greenlight such a thing.

The NFL also may have realized they have plenty of power behind their logo still. They might have a model showing them how to make even more money with two major games than one exclusive license. They may think they hold the power to get both 2k and EA to pay more than half of what the exclusive license would go for while making a profit still. This means both companies make a profit and the NFL still makes even more money than they otherwise would.

Or we might just see Playgrounds and a card game.

I literally have no idea what to expect anymore at this point.