Take Two and NFL Decline to Comment on NFL 2K Game

[tsbmolina]

Re: Take Two and NFL Decline to Comment on NFL 2K Game

Not NFL 2K related but EA is a bunch of liars

https://insider-gaming.com/ea-fc-25-...k-competition/

They are definitely afraid of 2K competition. If 2K ever got the Fifa license. They'll figure out a way to lock out 2K just like they're doing with the NFL license.

EA has a proven track record that they rather have the playing field to themselves. To say they are not afraid of competition is comedic, but what are are they suppose to say when forced to answer the question. The real proof is in there history.

[spankdatazz22]

Re: Take Two and NFL Decline to Comment on NFL 2K Game

Not enough people spoke with their wallets because 2K did not produce a game which was compelling enough for their monetary speech. That's 2K's fault.

2K was always going to be at an extreme disadvantage given the constraints they were placed in when EA severely limited what avenues 2K could take in making a "compelling" football game.

EA signed exclusivity rights for the NFL, NCAA, and even Arena League if I'm not mistaken - all within a few months of each other. It's been nearly 20 years so my memory has kinda faded on it.

This idea that 2K needed to deliver some impossibly fantastical game that had remarkable gameplay, a deep franchise mode, full customization options, owner's mode, etc. imo is another reason why I can understand why 2K wouldn't want to make another attempt at making a simulation football game.

To me it's a wonder they even made APF2K8. I probably said this a long time ago, but they made that game essentially with one hand tied behind their back. And implemented/delivered gameplay concepts that stood the test of time for another decade+ and two console generations later? That's crazy.

APF2K8 surely could've been better; I'll even give you maybe it should have been better. But imo trying to absolve any consumer responsibility and place all the blame at 2K's feet is wrong. ESPECIALLY given the limited space they could operate in at the time.

[zello144]

Re: Take Two and NFL Decline to Comment on NFL 2K Game

2K was always going to be at an extreme disadvantage given the constraints they were placed in when EA severely limited what avenues 2K could take in making a "compelling" football game.

EA signed exclusivity rights for the NFL, NCAA, and even Arena League if I'm not mistaken - all within a few months of each other. It's been nearly 20 years so my memory has kinda faded on it.

This idea that 2K needed to deliver some impossibly fantastical game that had remarkable gameplay, a deep franchise mode, full customization options, owner's mode, etc. imo is another reason why I can understand why 2K wouldn't want to make another attempt at making a simulation football game.

To me it's a wonder they even made APF2K8. I probably said this a long time ago, but they made that game essentially with one hand tied behind their back. And implemented/delivered gameplay concepts that stood the test of time for another decade+ and two console generations later? That's crazy.

APF2K8 surely could've been better; I'll even give you maybe it should have been better. But imo trying to absolve any consumer responsibility and place all the blame at 2K's feet is wrong. ESPECIALLY given the limited space they could operate in at the time.

APF 2K8 could have been better if they had focused on the PS3/360 gen Madden's weaknesses and try to offer what those Maddens couldn't. I remember picking up Madden 06-09 on 360 when they were dirt cheap and they were HORRIBLE compared to the PS2 Maddens. The presentation was awful having the EA sports radio guy do the play by play was a terrible decision.

[Blzer]

Re: Take Two and NFL Decline to Comment on NFL 2K Game

APF 2K8 could have been better if they had focused on the PS3/360 gen Madden's weaknesses and try to offer what those Maddens couldn't. I remember picking up Madden 06-09 on 360 when they were dirt cheap and they were HORRIBLE compared to the PS2 Maddens. The presentation was awful having the EA sports radio guy do the play by play was a terrible decision.

What I hated about the "radio guy" was that it was simply an audio filter (and I suppose with a different kind of excitement and tempo). I imagined when they said radio that they meant it would be overly descriptive. Instead, it was much less. I think every so often he'd say: "Looks to kick it off" or whatever, but that's it.

Yeah, it sucked.

[illwill10]

Re: Take Two and NFL Decline to Comment on NFL 2K Game

Was the game ever going sell if it didn't have an NFL license, even if it had a deep franchise mode and excellent customization options?

I doubt it. Keep in mind that Madden still had some goodwill from it's PS2 days, customization wasn't quite what it is today, 2KSports wasn't what it is today, etc.

So when 2K/VC said that APF was to 1. create one last game for 2K football fans and 2. test if there was a market for another football game, I tend to believe them. I thought the legends didn't really expand their audience but alot of 2K fans enjoyed that game for a very long time.

Backbreaker, Blitz, Maximum Football all essentially came and went. Imo, APF probably had the most longevity of any of them but it was never going to last as a simulation without the NFL license.

Back then, I don't think it would sell wel. Now, I want to say that type of game of would do well, but I'm not definitive. Back then, I think the Shield and having real current players were more important. I don't think the casual fan really knew/care about most of the Bronze and Silver players like Bernie Kosar or Herman Moore. I don't know what would have been considered a success because APF2K8 seemed like a reboot. I want to say that type of game would do well now because of the resources available. Social Media didn't really boom before 2008-09. I do think EA or 2K could release a game like that now, and they have the reputation and resources to do well. I just don't know how a game like Super Mega Baseball 4 did for EA. I just think a Football or Basketball game would do better than a baseball

[Hooe]

Re: Take Two and NFL Decline to Comment on NFL 2K Game

But imo trying to absolve any consumer responsibility and place all the blame at 2K's feet is wrong. ESPECIALLY given the limited space they could operate in at the time.

The idea that you, me, or any sports video game consumer had any hand in the end of 2K football is flat-out ridiculous. It's not anyone's fault 2K made a game which didn't resonate with people except 2K's. What limitations they faced don't matter, they knew what the limitations were when they greenlit the game's production.

What were people supposed to do to be in the moral right here, buy APF 2K8 as an act of charity supporting a humble multi-billion-dollar for-profit corporation? Come on now.

[spankdatazz22]

Re: Take Two and NFL Decline to Comment on NFL 2K Game

The idea that you, me, or any sports video game consumer had any hand in the end of 2K football is flat-out ridiculous. It's not anyone's fault 2K made a game which didn't resonate with people except 2K's. What limitations they faced don't matter, they knew what the limitations were when they greenlit the game's production.

What were people supposed to do to be in the moral right here, buy APF 2K8 as an act of charity supporting a humble multi-billion-dollar for-profit corporation? Come on now.

The idea is not all that different than a neighborhood mom & pop restaurant that provides good food/an experience chain restaurants don't. The community can't sit back and say they want additional options but don't support it. There should be an implied understanding the mom & pops store may not have as extensive a menu as Cheesecake Factory. Or may not offer 20 different kinds of beer. The limitations 2K faced DID matter; you're trying to act like the playing field was equal and it was no where close to being that.

EA did pretty much everything they could to keep 2K from having a path to making a legitimate football game. They even signed an exclusive license with the Arena League(!!?). It's a wonder they didn't sign some high-profile high schools to exclusivity at the time.

It's completely disingenuous to imply ANY non-NFL/NCAA licensed football game would have a reasonable chance of being competitive. A developer could make the best playing, most customizable, game ever. How much interest would there be in playing with a bunch of unknown players? For the few people that would take the time, they'd likely use the customization options to try to make the game look like the NFL or NCAA.

Which is why making a successful non-NFL/NCAA licensed game is a huge longshot. I'm sure the developer isn't in business to essentially make a how-to for EA Tiburon to make a football game. I think it's safe to say the vast majority of consumers are going to choose to play a good-great NFL/NCAA game versus a good-great non-licensed game.

So if having a choice mattered, it's on the community to understand that. It's not some act of charity. It's understanding the playing field isn't equal, and giving appropriate weight to that fact.

[kjcheezhead]

Re: Take Two and NFL Decline to Comment on NFL 2K Game

Back then, I don't think it would sell wel. Now, I want to say that type of game of would do well, but I'm not definitive. Back then, I think the Shield and having real current players were more important. I don't think the casual fan really knew/care about most of the Bronze and Silver players like Bernie Kosar or Herman Moore. I don't know what would have been considered a success because APF2K8 seemed like a reboot. I want to say that type of game would do well now because of the resources available. Social Media didn't really boom before 2008-09. I do think EA or 2K could release a game like that now, and they have the reputation and resources to do well. I just don't know how a game like Super Mega Baseball 4 did for EA. I just think a Football or Basketball game would do better than a baseball

APF2k8 wouldn’t do well today. The big thing that’s overlooked is that these companies want these games to be yearly releases and get those micro transactions in.


If 2k made the perfect football game, it’s one and done. Especially with generic players. Madden has the advantage of selling basically a roster update every year and the game is always “a step in the right direction”. That’s on purpose. EA ( and any gaming company really) want you to feel like you always need the years game.

Without real players, real teams, ultimate team modes. Gaming companies aren’t developing a sports game


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[illwill10]

Re: Take Two and NFL Decline to Comment on NFL 2K Game

APF2k8 wouldn’t do well today. The big thing that’s overlooked is that these companies want these games to be yearly releases and get those micro transactions in.


If 2k made the perfect football game, it’s one and done. Especially with generic players. Madden has the advantage of selling basically a roster update every year and the game is always “a step in the right direction”. That’s on purpose. EA ( and any gaming company really) want you to feel like you always need the years game.

Without real players, real teams, ultimate team modes. Gaming companies aren’t developing a sports game


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

You're right. Every time I suggested that this type of game would work now, I never considered the modern state of sports games. It's microtransaction heavy and the focus is live service content. In theory, you can have a MyTeam/UT with APF. But, how interested is the casual fan in buying legend cards and how interested are the legends in participating

In general, I don't feel Arcade sports games aren't suited to being an annual sports title. As you said, best case would be an one and done that they update over time. If it has success, than it can be a 2-3 year release title

[JSK1979]

Re: Take Two and NFL Decline to Comment on NFL 2K Game

EA has a proven track record that they rather have the playing field to themselves. To say they are not afraid of competition is comedic, but what are are they suppose to say when forced to answer the question. The real proof is in there history.

I think Smashman has a point here. Game developers catch the ire from the gaming community for decisions that are often made by people that they probably never see, don't know, or have never met.

The execs at the publisher are the ones who keep negotiating the licensing extension. The exclusivity deal is actually not good for the developers in a way. Due to the games' substandard quality (which is the thing that is in their control) they get all of the attention and all of the anger and frustration is aimed at them when the game sucks year after year.

I'm not taking up for EA, and I'm not even taking up for the devs either, really. I just believe we need to be directing the frustration at the correct people.

Sent from my SM-F946U using Operation Sports mobile app

[JSK1979]

Re: Take Two and NFL Decline to Comment on NFL 2K Game

The idea is not all that different than a neighborhood mom & pop restaurant that provides good food/an experience chain restaurants don't. The community can't sit back and say they want additional options but don't support it. There should be an implied understanding the mom & pops store may not have as extensive a menu as Cheesecake Factory. Or may not offer 20 different kinds of beer. The limitations 2K faced DID matter; you're trying to act like the playing field was equal and it was no where close to being that.

EA did pretty much everything they could to keep 2K from having a path to making a legitimate football game. They even signed an exclusive license with the Arena League(!!?). It's a wonder they didn't sign some high-profile high schools to exclusivity at the time.

It's completely disingenuous to imply ANY non-NFL/NCAA licensed football game would have a reasonable chance of being competitive. A developer could make the best playing, most customizable, game ever. How much interest would there be in playing with a bunch of unknown players? For the few people that would take the time, they'd likely use the customization options to try to make the game look like the NFL or NCAA.

Which is why making a successful non-NFL/NCAA licensed game is a huge longshot. I'm sure the developer isn't in business to essentially make a how-to for EA Tiburon to make a football game. I think it's safe to say the vast majority of consumers are going to choose to play a good-great NFL/NCAA game versus a good-great non-licensed game.

So if having a choice mattered, it's on the community to understand that. It's not some act of charity. It's understanding the playing field isn't equal, and giving appropriate weight to that fact.

EA has never had exclusive rights to the NCAA. If they did, 2K would've never been able to make Collge Hoops games, which ended with CH 2K8, and that was because of the O'Bannon case. They got out when it got really hot. If your next argument is that you're talking about football not basketball, it's still incorrect. Being that they weren't negotiating with players or a players union/agency, the licensing deal was with the NCAA as an entity, the conferences and the schools.

That's what they did for CFB 25, that's why it's not called NCAA 25 and why all of the branded trophies/awards aren't in the game. The same with soccer. They stopped paying for the license to FIFA, and that's why the game is now just called FC 25.

Sent from my SM-F946U using Operation Sports mobile app

[spankdatazz22]

Re: Take Two and NFL Decline to Comment on NFL 2K Game

EA has never had exclusive rights to the NCAA. If they did, 2K would've never been able to make Collge Hoops games, which ended with CH 2K8, and that was because of the O'Bannon case. They got out when it got really hot. If your next argument is that you're talking about football not basketball, it's still incorrect. Being that they weren't negotiating with players or a players union/agency, the licensing deal was with the NCAA as an entity, the conferences and the schools.

That's what they did for CFB 25, that's why it's not called NCAA 25 and why all of the branded trophies/awards aren't in the game. The same with soccer. They stopped paying for the license to FIFA, and that's why the game is now just called FC 25.

Sent from my SM-F946U using Operation Sports mobile app

https://www.gamedeveloper.com/game-platforms/electronic-arts-signs-exclusive-deal-with-ncaa

From April 10, 2005
Officials from Electronic Arts have announced that the company has signed a six year exclusive agreement with the Collegiate Licensing Company (CLC) that will grant the publisher exclusive rights to the NCAA teams, stadiums and schools for use in its college football video games. The agreement is for all video game consoles, including online features and handheld devices. The first title under the new contract will be NCAA Football 2006, which is due to be released this summer. Financial terms of the agreement were not disclosed, but are not expected to have been anywhere near the huge sum paid for the exclusive NFL license, since the NCAA games are not sold internationally and, as of last year at least, Electronic Arts was the only company to publish a college football game. Even so, the giant publisher still managed to sell over 1 million copies of NCAA Football 2005 last year. The move might be seen as a further block to Take Two Interactive, who Electronic Arts may have been imagining would seek to use the NCAA license after losing both the NFL and ESPN rights to EA in the last few months. "Our NCAA football franchise is a key element in our EA Sports brand line-up and we are pleased to have secured the NCAA license," said Jeff Karp, Group Vice President of Marketing for Electronic Arts. "There is an unrivaled loyalty our fans have for the game, and this agreement with CLC allows EA to continue to deliver to fans the best, most innovative college football experience now and for years to come."

[Freebirdz]

Re: Take Two and NFL Decline to Comment on NFL 2K Game

^ It's weird that 2k didn't want any part of the NCAA. They could have reskinned 2k5 to an NCAA game back in the day. The money must not be there for college sports games compared to professional sports.

[illwill10]

Re: Take Two and NFL Decline to Comment on NFL 2K Game

^ It's weird that 2k didn't want any part of the NCAA. They could have reskinned 2k5 to an NCAA game back in the day. The money must not be there for college sports games compared to professional sports.

Back then, it really wasn't for College Sports. Games like NCAA/March Madness and CHoops ended because of sales, not because of the O'Bannon case. I think NCAA Football was only selling 1-3M copies a year before it stopped. What benefited EA CFB25 was being away for over a decade, the desire, and how a lot of people feel about Madden. CFB25 did numbers so far, but wouldn't surprise if the yearly sales regress back

[Dead2009]

Re: Take Two and NFL Decline to Comment on NFL 2K Game

Not NFL 2K related but EA is a bunch of liars

https://insider-gaming.com/ea-fc-25-...k-competition/

They are definitely afraid of 2K competition. If 2K ever got the Fifa license. They'll figure out a way to lock out 2K just like they're doing with the NFL license.

EA doesn't control the FIFA branding anymore. If 2K wanted to make a soccer game and name it "FIFA 2K25", they can.