Joe Montana Football 16 Looks to be a Mobile Game, Utilizing Unreal Engine 4

[mestevo]

Re: Joe Montana Football 16 Looks to be a Mobile Game, Utilizing Unreal Engine 4

@tariqmma @G_ROB_80 @GeDDeN7 @PocketPasser9 @tazdevil20 good show. Nothing here at Super Bowl but we are delayed. Enjoy game guys

https://twitter.com/DamonGrow/status/561910551970709504

So maybe demoed, but they're delayed for some reason (and is why he backed away from his 'around SB' for new info)

[Gridiron]

Re: Joe Montana Football 16 Looks to be a Mobile Game, Utilizing Unreal Engine 4

To be honest, I got confused on what was being said and I'm prolly just overthinkin it. Like, is dude sayin they demoed it and it was fine they just arent ready for people outside who demoed it to see it? Or are they sayin there was no demo at all?

[kjcheezhead]

Re: Joe Montana Football 16 Looks to be a Mobile Game, Utilizing Unreal Engine 4

No one is asking them to show their hand. His post is talking about something totally different.

On the flipside, if they demoed it at the Super Bowl then that's showing your hand unless it was a very closed-door NDA-only event. Now, if it wasn't a closed-door NDA-only event then you have to worry a bit because nobody who has seen it has said a word about it and that could mean it wasn't good enough to say anything about it. I hope that's not the case.

Looking back at the tweets, it's hard to say if it was demoed or not. I'm not worried yet.

As for the feedback, I guess it just annoys me with millennials and this me generation. The devs need to talk to me, look at my vid, check out my channel, I know what the SIM community wants. It's ridiculous. It's 2015. The devs have access to information everywhere and dozens of ways of getting all sorts of feedback. Everyone wants to have their 2 cents in the game and that's not always good either.

Ian's team for Madden 10/11 was as visible as any developer and the experiment was a disaster. Good for us, but the game had guys loving/hating protak, fight for the fumble, the amount of time spent on online franchise, on offline franchise...
You had a SIM madden 10, an arcade 11 and Ian leaving the team shortly after probably from the stress of the situation.

Rex' s crew lurks, listens but doesn't usually interact. I think madden 15 was a stronger attempt than usual thanks to that approach. Still not my type of game but that's another thing all together. Point is, sometimes devs just gotta do their jobs and make the game they want. Damon says he loves 2k5. If that's his goal, he already has a great foundation with any fan saying a word.

[bringbacksimfootball]

Re: Joe Montana Football 16 Looks to be a Mobile Game, Utilizing Unreal Engine 4

As for the feedback, I guess it just annoys me with millennials and this me generation. The devs need to talk to me, look at my vid, check out my channel, I know what the SIM community wants. It's ridiculous. It's 2015. The devs have access to information everywhere and dozens of ways of getting all sorts of feedback.

This has nothing to do with people's ages or what mainstream media label "generation" you want to use. I'm also far too old to be included in that anyway and find that tone rather insulting. It's one thing to disagree it's another thing entirely to take it to that unnecessary level.

If he himself put out tweets--and he did--talking about how much feedback and other things they want from the "community", yet doesn't use said "community", don't blame the "community" or talk down to the "community" for seeing the way things have been handled as different from what they themselves talked about.

Ian's team for Madden 10/11 was as visible as any developer and the experiment was a disaster.

"Disaster"? That's preposterous.

Madden 10 was a better game (and every Madden since) because of the feedback and interaction that began at that time. I spent a lot of time there before Madden 10's reveal early in its development, and I can tell you right now that what the game was going to be versus what it turned out to be as a result of interaction with gamers is night and day. A very big change to Fight For The Fumble (among other things) was made from direct feedback; you may not have liked Fight for the fumble, but you would've thrown up if you'd seen what it was initially going to be.

And Madden 10 still today is regarded as the best Madden from last generation by many, and in terms of one-cycle effort I don't disagree. The reason Madden 11 was a downer is because they spent a ton more money than they'd anticipated on Madden 10's development and Ian himself stated this to me face-to-face, investors exploded publicly, and they had to hunker down. The fact that MUT came out in 10 (earlier than they'd initially planned) and the longer media blitz were a result of that; what they'd spent versus what was returning was not where they wanted it to be.

Rex' s crew lurks, listens but doesn't usually interact. I think madden 15 was a stronger attempt than usual thanks to that approach. Still not my type of game but that's another thing all together. Point is, sometimes devs just gotta do their jobs and make the game they want. Damon says he loves 2k5. If that's his goal, he already has a great foundation with any fan saying a word.

I loved NFL 2K5. But there are a lot of things from NFL 2K5 that I would absolutely not want to see in a football game in 2015, not to mention the fact that All-Pro Football is more fundamentally sound and plays a better game of football. The only thing I'd want from NFL 2K5 is its overall production values which no other football game has been able to match.

[kjcheezhead]

Re: Joe Montana Football 16 Looks to be a Mobile Game, Utilizing Unreal Engine 4

This has nothing to do with people's ages or what mainstream media label "generation" you want to use. I'm also far too old to be included in that anyway and find that tone rather insulting. It's one thing to disagree it's another thing entirely to take it to that unnecessary level.

If he himself put out tweets--and he did--talking about how much feedback and other things they want from the "community", yet doesn't use said "community", don't blame the "community" or talk down to the "community" for seeing the way things have been handled as different from what they themselves talked about.

Who says he isn't? As useless as it seemed to me he said he watched a fans video and thanked him for making it. Neither of us know if he has used any said feedback or not.

"Disaster"? That's preposterous.

Madden 10 was a better game (and every Madden since) because of the feedback and interaction that began at that time. I spent a lot of time there before Madden 10's reveal early in its development, and I can tell you right now that what the game was going to be versus what it turned out to be as a result of interaction with gamers is night and day. A very big change to Fight For The Fumble (among other things) was made from direct feedback; you may not have liked Fight for the fumble, but you would've thrown up if you'd seen what it was initially going to be.

And Madden 10 still today is regarded as the best Madden from last generation by many, and in terms of one-cycle effort I don't disagree. The reason Madden 11 was a downer is because they spent a ton more money than they'd anticipated on Madden 10's development and Ian himself stated this to me face-to-face, investors exploded publicly, and they had to hunker down. The fact that MUT came out in 10 (earlier than they'd initially planned) and the longer media blitz were a result of that; what they'd spent versus what was returning was not where they wanted it to be.

If the original fight for the fumble would've made me throw up, that's on the devs for creating a poor design. As it was, it was awful. The same cut scene every time, triggered even when it looked like a clear recovery. The got the feedback about if people would like/hate it and made a terrible mini game.

Same with protak. Feedback said the fans wanted multiple defenders involved in tackles and they created a magnet that had players latch on like legos and then allowed small running backs to bust through 3 defenders but big backs to get tackled high by dbs.

The team had plenty of feedback going in, but made poor design decisions. I disagree that direct feedback had that much value to the final product. It may have made a feature or two slightly better, but protak and MUT were going to be a focus either way. Too much money to be made with MUT to push it off.

I loved NFL 2K5. But there are a lot of things from NFL 2K5 that I would absolutely not want to see in a football game in 2015, not to mention the fact that All-Pro Football is more fundamentally sound and plays a better game of football. The only thing I'd want from NFL 2K5 is its overall production values which no other football game has been able to match.

2k5 is 10+ years old. It's showing its age. For its time it looked more like football than anything had. It had the VIP system to improve the ai, the crib, deep franchise. If the goal is to make a 2015 game that looks and moves like the actual sport. That's all I need to know. Again, I hope I don't need to make a vid like this to show the devs what kind of game we want. If we do, then we're in trouble.

https://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=YBP6IHh0v5w

[bringbacksimfootball]

Re: Joe Montana Football 16 Looks to be a Mobile Game, Utilizing Unreal Engine 4

Who says he isn't? As useless as it seemed to me he said he watched a fans video and thanked him for making it. Neither of us know if he has used any said feedback or not.

If the game is coming in the 3rd quarter, a couple of guys on Twitter sending YouTube links is practically of no use now. Last year, more useful. But now? Not so much, especially not some of the things they're asking for which would be massive undertakings at this point--if they haven't done them already--that would require more time than they probably have at this point. Sure, he thanks them for it because it's the professional thing to do, doesn't mean he can do anything with them now.

If the original fight for the fumble would've made me throw up, that's on the devs for creating a poor design. As it was, it was awful. The same cut scene every time, triggered even when it looked like a clear recovery. The got the feedback about if people would like/hate it and made a terrible mini game.

Same with protak. Feedback said the fans wanted multiple defenders involved in tackles and they created a magnet that had players latch on like legos and then allowed small running backs to bust through 3 defenders but big backs to get tackled high by dbs.

The team had plenty of feedback going in, but made poor design decisions.

You're conflating the merits of feedback/early idea gathering (and attempting to discredit it) with the abilities (or lack thereof) of a specific development team.

Because the development team was unable to deliver at a certain level doesn't mean the feedback was somehow useless. Those are development ability/resource issues, that has nothing to do with the quality of feedback nor does it mean it lacks usefulness.

I disagree that direct feedback had that much value to the final product.

Yeah, but you weren't there to see how seriously it was being taken and how much it became a part of development. I was there. You may not have liked the game and maybe even felt like many of the things they did were done poorly, I felt the same way too, but that's a separate issue.

One important part I recall was in November of 2008 during a later stage planning meeting for Madden 10 and I saw gamer feedback written all over whiteboards, written all over notes, and put up on the overhead projector (most of it came from OS and Madden Mania), then listened as they discussed them for about 2 hours where they talked about what ideas had been added at that point and what they were planning for the upcoming stages of development, and that also included how they were going to handle upcoming community days. Many of these ideas did wind up in the game.

I'm not the biggest fan of Madden right now, but honestly just imagining what the game would be like today had they not had that interaction back then, yikes. It would be much worse today. What they were planning to do after Madden 09 was basically more of the same before they decided to take reading boards and interacting seriously. Love or hate Madden 10, I would take Madden 10 over what Madden 09 was every day of the week.

I remember having a conversation with Ian the next year where he expressed being upset at how people reacted to Madden 10. He said he felt that he and the team really tried to put in as much as they could of what people were asking for and felt they did a really good job. What I told Ian was that I think some people did appreciate the effort and could understand what was being done, but that a lot of things weren't executed very well and that's where a lot of the push back was coming from. He disagreed on the execution front, but stated regret over how much was spent on The Extra Point, and saying that it really bombed (his words not mine... but I agreed).

It may have made a feature or two slightly better, but protak and MUT were going to be a focus either way. Too much money to be made with MUT to push it off.

As I've said, MUT was delivered into Madden earlier than they'd planned because of Madden 10's unfavorable sales performance. MUT was going to be a thing eventually anyway, but still.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Joe Montana Football 16 Looks to be a Mobile Game, Utilizing Unreal Engine 4

If the game is coming in the 3rd quarter, a couple of guys on Twitter sending YouTube links is practically of no use now. Last year, more useful. But now? Not so much, especially not some of the things they're asking for which would be massive undertakings at this point--if they haven't done them already--that would require more time than they probably have at this point. Sure, he thanks them for it because it's the professional thing to do, doesn't mean he can do anything with them now.




You're conflating the merits of feedback/early idea gathering (and attempting to discredit it) with the abilities (or lack thereof) of a specific development team.

Because the development team was unable to deliver at a certain level doesn't mean the feedback was somehow useless. Those are development ability/resource issues, that has nothing to do with the quality of feedback nor does it mean it lacks usefulness.



Yeah, but you weren't there to see how seriously it was being taken and how much it became a part of development. I was there. You may not have liked the game and maybe even felt like many of the things they did were done poorly, I felt the same way too, but that's a separate issue.

One important part I recall was in November of 2008 during a later stage planning meeting for Madden 10 and I saw gamer feedback written all over whiteboards, written all over notes, and put up on the overhead projector (most of it came from OS and Madden Mania), then listened as they discussed them for about 2 hours where they talked about what ideas had been added at that point and what they were planning for the upcoming stages of development, and that also included how they were going to handle upcoming community days. Many of these ideas did wind up in the game.

I'm not the biggest fan of Madden right now, but honestly just imagining what the game would be like today had they not had that interaction back then, yikes. It would be much worse today. What they were planning to do after Madden 09 was basically more of the same before they decided to take reading boards and interacting seriously. Love or hate Madden 10, I would take Madden 10 over what Madden 09 was every day of the week.

I remember having a conversation with Ian the next year where he expressed being upset at how people reacted to Madden 10. He said he felt that he and the team really tried to put in as much as they could of what people were asking for and felt they did a really good job. What I told Ian was that I think some people did appreciate the effort and could understand what was being done, but that a lot of things weren't executed very well and that's where a lot of the push back was coming from. He disagreed on the execution front, but stated regret over how much was spent on The Extra Point, and saying that it really bombed (his words not mine... but I agreed).




As I've said, MUT was delivered into Madden earlier than they'd planned because of Madden 10's unfavorable sales performance. MUT was going to be a thing eventually anyway, but still.

Honestly, I disagree with almost everything you posted here and that you've been posting on twitter. You are obsessed with a game being made by the "community" instead of a game being made by a developer. Honestly, just look at what madden has become based on "community feedback". If it were up to me, there would be very little community involvement. All that you need to make a football game lies in front of you without the mouths of 1000s of spoiled brats telling you what they THINK should be in the game. We are not building world of warcraft here. If anything, this nonsensical community feedback (which doesn't work anyway) has made Madden into a comical calamity that resembles almost nothing of the real thing. Making a sports simulation is about REPLICATION and COPYING. It is not about INVENTING. Sure, there are things that can be taken as feedback that can enhance the game, but ultimately, if you are building a football game to emulate the real thing, all of the resources you need are freely available.

BBSFB, I appreciate your passion (greatly I might add), but you keep using phrases like, "They better do this..." or "they MUST add this"... They better or what? Let them make their game. They are trying to copy the real thing, which is exactly the opposite of what the Madden team does. The Madden team is making a competitive video game that is based on NFL football. It's a completely different mindset.

Let's just be patient and see what happens instead of instantly obsessing over the fact that since they didn't get direct feedback from a few guys on the internet that it's going to be a failure. If it doesn't measure up, so what? We aren't any worse off than we are now.

EDIT:

I remember having a conversation with Ian the next year where he expressed being upset at how people reacted to Madden 10. He said he felt that he and the team really tried to put in as much as they could of what people were asking for and felt they did a really good job. What I told Ian was that I think some people did appreciate the effort and could understand what was being done, but that a lot of things weren't executed very well and that's where a lot of the push back was coming from. He disagreed on the execution front, but stated regret over how much was spent on The Extra Point, and saying that it really bombed (his words not mine... but I agreed).

Wanted to respond to this section. This here sums up the EXACT problem I have, and always will have, with the development team that works on Madden. There is a HUGE difference between working hard and producing results. This is the exact mindset that makes them a hopeless group. Just because they felt like they put in "all of this work" (Madden 10), they feel like it was something great. First of all, Madden 10 was not a good football game, it was just a lot less terrible than the other maddens that came immediately before it. They still were missing a TON of things from past games, and the player movement, line play, ball physics, lack of penalties and game modes were all absent or implemented extremely poorly. Yet - the attitude of the team is still, "we created something great, you guys are just haters". I laugh at them, I really do. They don't get it, and they won't ever get it. It's the EXACT same mindset that exists there today. Just listen to REx's latest interview, where he basically re-iterates this same mentality. He mentions sales and Meta-Critic scores. Once again, laughable. I can work 100 hours a week on building a car for months. However, if the car doesn't start, brakes don't work and the gas pedal sticks, no one who buys the car is going to give a crap about how many hours I may have worked. Especially when company B, who has 100 less employees, smaller budgets and less time built a car that is less in price, looks nicer and everything actually works.

[bringbacksimfootball]

Re: Joe Montana Football 16 Looks to be a Mobile Game, Utilizing Unreal Engine 4

@GiantBlue76

To say I'm "obsessed" with anything regarding this game (or any other game for that matter) is utterly ridiculous hyperbole with no basis in fact or reality.

Also, the game can't be "made by the community" nor was that ever the concept being offered up in the first place. I have no idea what you're talking about.

Making a game is a helluva lot more than just posting some random ideas on a message board, and that's all the "community" can do anyway and that's all I've ever mentioned them having the opportunity to do; what you've interpreted it as is a total misunderstanding of that and an exaggeration of the basic idea, and unfortunately you're not the first to do that, and this tells me that those doing that are not really listening, or even trying for that matter. I'm not making some kind of wild off-the-wall notion; it's something that's literally done all the time. Just off the top of my head, look up something called "Game Guru" (formerly FPS Creator) and look at their message board where they openly ask for direct user ideas and have been doing so for over a decade, and currently doing it with their new product. Good thing they followed that approach and not your way of thinking, otherwise their products would've never evolved to where they are now as some of their very best features came directly from their community.

I also, obviously, disagree entirely with your view regarding how utilizing community concepts can work, not based on conjecture, but based on seeing it work firsthand countless times in my career, so you're not going to change my mind on that.

You also need to understand that using the failures of the Madden dev team as an example to paint a broad stroke across how this works for the whole industry is short-sighted, captive thinking which lacks perspective or personal experience. The gaming industry is much bigger than EA Tiburon and there are a number of great development teams outside of that company that do just fine incorporating user engagement information.

As I've said before, whether their approach works or not for this game will play out in the final results. I have reservations (and I'm not the only one), you don't have them, that's cool. Let's see what happens.

[Hooe]

Re: Joe Montana Football 16 Looks to be a Mobile Game, Utilizing Unreal Engine 4

He mentions sales and Meta-Critic scores. Once again, laughable.

You say that, yet the entire video game industry uses Metacritic and sales to gauge how they are doing.

Metacritic scores are used by publishers for projecting sales for games, evaluating game proposals by studios to sign a publishing deal, (controversially) tying game dev studio bonuses to Metacritic scores, (in specific cases and also controversially) job listings, etc. Consumers obviously use Metacritic scores as a guide for making purchases. Metacritic absolutely matters, and I say that bemoaning the fact. Even retail outlets use Metacritic scores to showcase quality products and encourage purchases.

As to sales, people generally speaking buy games they find enjoyable and games which receive positive critical consensus, and video game studios generally need to sell games to stay in business.

If sales and reviews aren't reasonable indicators for the success of a video game, what is?

I can work 100 hours a week on building a car for months. However, if the car doesn't start, brakes don't work and the gas pedal sticks, no one who buys the car is going to give a crap about how many hours I may have worked. Especially when company B, who has 100 less employees, smaller budgets and less time built a car that is less in price, looks nicer and everything actually works.

Your metaphor is demonstrably off-base; go boot Madden NFL 15 up and play a game to completion. The game starts, it doesn't crash, at no point during operation does it become grossly unplayable and/or non responsive, you can call plays, you can run the ball, you can pass the ball, linemen block, defenders defend, you can score touchdowns, and your opponent - AI or online human - may do the same. Hundreds of thousands of people do this daily. It may have some bugs, physics wonkiness, and/or some questionable design decisions - what game doesn't have some amount of these - but the game works as intended and people play it and enjoy it.

And let's not pretend that other game by that other team, as functional and quality of a game as it was, didn't have its fair share of bugs and design problems, either.

We are not building world of warcraft here.

No, but I'd contend that one would be wise to apply any relevant game designs and lessons learned from the highest-grossing video game franchise in the history of the medium. Video games exist foremost to make money.

First of all, Madden 10 was not a good football game [...] Yet - the attitude of the team is still, "we created something great, you guys are just haters". I laugh at them, I really do.

Your opinion on the game is your own and that's fine. That allowed, several million people bought and enjoyed Madden NFL 10 as a video game. The team behind it has every right to be proud of themselves for creating a game which such a large audience enjoys. If I ever am fortunate to build a video game that's purchased and enjoyed by millions of people, you best your last dollar I'm going to be proud of myself, "haters" be damned.

If it were up to me, there would be very little community involvement. All that you need to make a football game lies in front of you without the mouths of 1000s of spoiled brats telling you what they THINK should be in the game.

I certainly see your point with respect to having too many cooks in the kitchen when making a game. I've worked on projects with that problem, and unsurprisingly they didn't work out. I've also worked on games where direct feedback from the community resulted in a better game. There's a line to draw between changing a game in response to community feedback and sticking to the design pillars the game was built upon. Bungie is facing this problem right now with Destiny, for example.

That said, if this is truly your attitude towards community in game development - disregarding community input entirely and speaking disrespectfully of your target audience - you will fail as a game developer. A video game franchise is only as strong as its community, and all things considered I'd say Madden NFL's community is pretty lively, in some part due to active fostering and stewardship of said group of fans by the people who make the game and in part because people like talking about shared interests in the general case.

Let's just be patient and see what happens

I absolutely agree with this much, with respect to Joe Montana Football 16.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Joe Montana Football 16 Looks to be a Mobile Game, Utilizing Unreal Engine 4

You say that, yet the entire video game industry uses Metacritic and sales to gauge how they are doing.

Metacritic scores are used by publishers for projecting sales for games, evaluating game proposals by studios to sign a publishing deal, (controversially) tying game dev studio bonuses to Metacritic scores, (in specific cases and also controversially) job listings, etc. Consumers obviously use Metacritic scores as a guide for making purchases. Metacritic absolutely matters, and I say that bemoaning the fact. Even retail outlets use Metacritic scores to showcase quality products and encourage purchases.

As to sales, people generally speaking buy games they find enjoyable and games which receive positive critical consensus, and video game studios generally need to sell games to stay in business.

If sales and reviews aren't reasonable indicators for the success of a video game, what is?



Your metaphor is demonstrably off-base; go boot Madden NFL 15 up and play a game to completion. The game starts, it doesn't crash, at no point during operation does it become grossly unplayable and/or non responsive, you can call plays, you can run the ball, you can pass the ball, linemen block, defenders defend, you can score touchdowns, and your opponent - AI or online human - may do the same. Hundreds of thousands of people do this daily. It may have some bugs, physics wonkiness, and/or some questionable design decisions - what game doesn't have some amount of these - but the game works as intended and people play it and enjoy it.

And let's not pretend that other game by that other team, as functional and quality of a game as it was, didn't have its fair share of bugs and design problems, either.



No, but I'd contend that one would be wise to apply any relevant game designs and lessons learned from the highest-grossing video game franchise in the history of the medium. Video games exist foremost to make money.



Your opinion on the game is your own and that's fine. That allowed, several million people bought and enjoyed Madden NFL 10 as a video game. The team behind it has every right to be proud of themselves for creating a game which such a large audience enjoys. If I ever am fortunate to build a video game that's purchased and enjoyed by millions of people, you best your last dollar I'm going to be proud of myself, "haters" be damned.



I certainly see your point with respect to having too many cooks in the kitchen when making a game. I've worked on projects with that problem, and unsurprisingly they didn't work out. I've also worked on games where direct feedback from the community resulted in a better game. There's a line to draw between changing a game in response to community feedback and sticking to the design pillars the game was built upon. Bungie is facing this problem right now with Destiny, for example.

That said, if this is truly your attitude towards community in game development - disregarding community input entirely and speaking disrespectfully of your target audience - you will fail as a game developer. A video game franchise is only as strong as its community, and all things considered I'd say Madden NFL's community is pretty lively, in some part due to active fostering and stewardship of said group of fans by the people who make the game and in part because people like talking about shared interests in the general case.



I absolutely agree with this much, with respect to Joe Montana Football 16.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion. You just don't seem to separate your developer hat from your consumer hat.

As for my metaphor being off-base, sorry but I can't agree with you there either. Madden 15 (like many maddens) has in fact had massive issues with crashes and disconnects. Apparently you didn't experience the desync issue? You've never played a game and had it just go to the dashboard? Happens pretty frequently. In all honesty, I can live with that and all games have those types of bugs. What I can't live with is claims such as QB inaccuracy, line play improvements, ball physics, animations (never same tackle twice) etc. etc. which are all false IMO. I guess everyone has different standards as far as what actually "works". Fair enough.

Also, as far as the sales mention goes, let's see, where to begin here...

Let's use steaks as an example. It is a fact that Waffle House sold the most T-Bone steaks in the US. Therefore, are we to say that Waffle House T-Bone steaks are the best? I mean, how else do you measure quality? Sorry, but that statement is so incredibly absurd to me I am having a hard time formulating what I want to say.

Waffle House steaks must clearly be better than Flemmings, Ruth's Chris or Sullivan's. Better yet, why don't we make a new law that no longer allows any other restaurants to make or sell steaks other than Waffle House. Now - if you want steak you HAVE to get it from Waffle House. Now according to you, we should be able to deduce that Waffle House makes a quality steak because they sell them. The steaks have no maggots in them, the meat is sufficiently cooked and they are eatable. Therefore, we can say that the Waffle House steaks provide a more than adequate product to the consumer base, and Waffle House produces best quality because they sell a lot of them.

Not a lot of Ferrari's are sold compared to Subaru Outbacks. Are we to believe the quality of the Ferrari is less than that of the Outback? Come on man, you work in games and software. I refuse to believe that you actually believe what you are writing here. There are countless products out there that are high(er) quality that don't sell as well due to many factors. There are also lots of low quality products that still sell despite poor quality.

Anyway, I've stated my opinion, you stated yours, no sense in going back and forth. We won't ever agree so it's pointless. That being said, I respect your opinion just the same.

[kjcheezhead]

Re: Joe Montana Football 16 Looks to be a Mobile Game, Utilizing Unreal Engine 4

That said, if this is truly your attitude towards community in game development - disregarding community input entirely and speaking disrespectfully of your target audience - you will fail as a game developer. A video game franchise is only as strong as its community, and all things considered I'd say Madden NFL's community is pretty lively, in some part due to active fostering and stewardship of said group of fans by the people who make the game and in part because people like talking about shared interests in the general case.

I'm a bit confused by this part here. Specifically the disregarding community input and speaking disrespectfully of the target audience. Are you referring to the JMF 16 team? Because, if you are, I just don't see it. They've released next to no info, but just like I tried to explain to BringBackSim, I don't see them disregarding community input here. I can find countless posts on this site that say all the poster wants is APF with a franchise mode, or the route based passing, or a good story mode for a my player mode. It's all right here already because we've been begging for a new game for years. Silence does not mean they are ignoring community input.

And how are they disrespecting the target audience? Damon has mentioned 2k5 half a dozen times now always hinting that that game is the bar to strive towards. When people post vids on his Twitter or ask for certain features he comments and says he enjoys watching them. He's been nothing but respectful and anyone can tell he knows this group.

Posters like myself doubt the value of these vids and this "look at my request" he gets, but he's never been what I would call disrespectful or ignored his community in any way.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Joe Montana Football 16 Looks to be a Mobile Game, Utilizing Unreal Engine 4

I'm a bit confused by this part here. Specifically the disregarding community input and speaking disrespectfully of the target audience. Are you referring to the JMF 16 team? Because, if you are, I just don't see it. They've released next to no info, but just like I tried to explain to BringBackSim, I don't see them disregarding community input here. I can find countless posts on this site that say all the poster wants is APF with a franchise mode, or the route based passing, or a good story mode for a my player mode. It's all right here already because we've been begging for a new game for years. Silence does not mean they are ignoring community input.

And how are they disrespecting the target audience? Damon has mentioned 2k5 half a dozen times now always hinting that that game is the bar to strive towards. When people post vids on his Twitter or ask for certain features he comments and says he enjoys watching them. He's been nothing but respectful and anyone can tell he knows this group.

Posters like myself doubt the value of these vids and this "look at my request" he gets, but he's never been what I would call disrespectful or ignored his community in any way.

No, he wasn't referring to Damon, he was referring to me hypothetically due to my views on community involvement.

[kjcheezhead]

Re: Joe Montana Football 16 Looks to be a Mobile Game, Utilizing Unreal Engine 4

No, he wasn't referring to Damon, he was referring to me hypothetically due to my views on community involvement.

I didn't explain that well. I understand he meant you, but I get the idea that people feel like the silence from this team means this team is actually doing that same thing. I'm still trying to explain my position that just because this team didn't put up a poll asking what's important to us doesn't mean they haven't gotten useful feedback for this game from sites like this.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Joe Montana Football 16 Looks to be a Mobile Game, Utilizing Unreal Engine 4

I didn't explain that well. I understand he meant you, but I get the idea that people feel like the silence from this team means this team is actually doing that same thing. I'm still trying to explain my position that just because this team didn't put up a poll asking what's important to us doesn't mean they haven't gotten useful feedback for this game from sites like this.

Right, or maybe they are actually copying the real thing rather than listen to a bunch of guys who flip out because their QB overthrew a WR, a penalty was called out of their control or they weren't able to cover the entire field with their 90 speed MLB...

[kjcheezhead]

Re: Joe Montana Football 16 Looks to be a Mobile Game, Utilizing Unreal Engine 4

So Damon tweeted that they are in a "Sprint" leading up to a push out. To any developer types in here, is there a typical time for a Sprint? Like an insane final 3-4 days, or is it a week or two or a whole month? Does it vary on the project? Just trying to get a better idea to how close we are to info.