He's being put in for career achievement numbers wise, period. Moon was anything but a winner. In that respect he was viewed back then, much how Peyton Manning is now.
Warren Moon is not Hall worthy
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Re: Warren Moon is not Hall worthy
Originally posted by feeq14
He's being put in for career achievement numbers wise, period. Moon was anything but a winner. In that respect he was viewed back then, much how Peyton Manning is now.PSN: JISTIC_OS
XBOX LIVE: JISTIC
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Re: Warren Moon is not Hall worthy
Originally posted by JisticIf you're going to now paint Moon as a winner, you'd better find a new argument. When it counted, 3-7 in the playoffs, actually has the same amount post season wins as Vinny.
He's being put in for career achievement numbers wise, period. Moon was anything but a winner. In that respect he was viewed back then, much how Peyton Manning is now.Comment
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Re: Warren Moon is not Hall worthy
Originally posted by feeq14Was he a huge winner no but dont compare him to Testaverde who didnt even make it to more than what 3 playoff games as a starter, seldom made it to the probowl, was labled a first round buts etc
Moon's credentials make this a 'lifetime achievement award' because of his total statistics. Vinny is in virtually the same boat.
IN the end to me Moon was a very good QB, no doubt. In a system that was made to put up HUGE passing numbers. He never showed to be an exceptional leader, or an ability to win the big games. Stats alone, of course he's amongst the best. But to me context is everything, raw numbers aren't.PSN: JISTIC_OS
XBOX LIVE: JISTIC
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Re: Warren Moon is not Hall worthy
If Moon's not a HOFer, Peyton isnt either."Maybe I can't win. But to beat me, he's going to have to kill me. And to kill me, he's gonna have to have the heart to stand in front of me. And to do that, he's got to be willing to die himself. I don't know if he's ready to do that."Comment
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Re: Warren Moon is not Hall worthy
Originally posted by RockyIf Moon's not a HOFer, Peyton isnt either.
Then virutally any QB with great stats and no rings means they aren't HOF's, thus, Trent Dilfer=Hall of Famer.Comment
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Re: Warren Moon is not Hall worthy
Originally posted by Vinceanity2k3Then virutally any QB with great stats and no rings means they aren't HOF's, thus, Trent Dilfer=Hall of Famer.Comment
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Re: Warren Moon is not Hall worthy
Originally posted by SquintUmmm....okay. I think you were reading into his post a bit too much. He was making a counterpoint to an earlier observation.
My post was SARCASTIC.Comment
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Re: Warren Moon is not Hall worthy
Originally posted by billmaticMoon was named to 9 pro bowls. So, at least he was consistently recognized as one of the top QB's in the league. Testaverde made it to, what, 2? The same cannot be said for him.Comment
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Re: Warren Moon is not Hall worthy
Originally posted by feeq14Testaverde played on some very poor teams, he was never considered an elite qb amongst his peers even playing at the same time as moon. at no point in time was he considered an elite qb he was servicable and effective but never elite. as said moon made 9 probowls and led his team to 4 more playoff births in all honesty if your running a team in the nfl in the early 90s who are you taking moon or testaverde. testeverde will probably never be a hall of famer moon is first ballot nuff said
How about when Gilbride went down with a heart ailment, he took over the offensive coordinator duties.
Or how about some of you realize that the run and shoot only lasted 3 years. And when it did, it is the one of the most complicated offenses to run. Every wide reciever has a read and does not have a set route, and Moon has to disect the field and realize what every recievers read is on the field.
Or how about the fact that he kept performing into his late 30's, and no QBs are even close in the numbers he put up at the end of his career.
Or maybe you will notice that he threw for tons of yards for three different teams, not including his CFL career.
Football is the ultimate team sport, and championships cannot be the main measuring stick. You dont leave Nolan Ryan out of the hall of fame because he just put up great stats and never won anything. Does Karl Malone and John Stockton belong in the Hall? And their sport doesnt require as much team help to be successful.
Think about all of the teams that have won championships in spite of poor QB play. Look no further than this year's superbowl. Roethlisberger was terrible and still got a ring. Hell Moon put up 37 points in a hostile, cold Buffalo and got to watch his defense collapse in one half.Last edited by UTlonghornguy; 02-13-2006, 01:13 AM.Comment
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Re: Warren Moon is not Hall worthy
Originally posted by UTlonghornguyHell Moon put up 37 points in a hostile, cold Buffalo and got to watch his defense collapse in one half.
You can't make an arguement that football is such a team sport that you can't blame a QB for having the second most post season appearances without a super bowl appearance, yet give him all the credit for all these great numbers.
Bottom line, he didn't get it done when he had to. Whatever that was. He was in pass friendly offenses most of his career and played in a dome almost exclusively. Nice player, nice numbers, NFL Legend? Not by a longshot.
Doesn't really matter however, he's in so that's that.PSN: JISTIC_OS
XBOX LIVE: JISTIC
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Re: Warren Moon is not Hall worthy
Originally posted by SquintWow.
Just wow.
First that stupid Jerome Bettis thread and now this one.
Warren Moon's career alone puts him among the all-time greats and merits HOF selection on their own, but there is more to this story.
Doug Williams may have paved the way for the black quarterback in the NFL, but Warren Moon proved that one could be a perennial pro-bowler. There is something to be said about that. There was a time (and still is in some minds) when people believed that an African-american couldn't play the QB position for a myriad of reasons. Moon broke that mold and it allowed others to follow in his footsteps.
It's hard enough to play in the NFL, but imagine facing adversity like Moon did. And yet he still finished in the top five in many passing categories (and I don't care what type of offense he played in). There is something to be said about that and his career should be judged with those mitigating factors in mind.
I'm guessing Jim Kelly should be ranked out of the HOF because he played in the K-Gun. And if the run-and-shoot is just a stats producing offense, then why weren't Erik Kramer and Rodney Peete perennial pro-bowlers?
I hated to bring up race, but the fact of the matter is that it is a huge part of this story. He is the first black QB elected to the HOF and it should be pointed out. It's history.
Now let's all act mature and not turn this thread upside down.Comment
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Re: Warren Moon is not Hall worthy
Originally posted by JisticAnd also had a hard time completing a first down completion the entire second half.
You can't make an arguement that football is such a team sport that you can't blame a QB for having the second most post season appearances without a super bowl appearance, yet give him all the credit for all these great numbers.
Bottom line, he didn't get it done when he had to. Whatever that was. He was in pass friendly offenses most of his career and played in a dome almost exclusively. Nice player, nice numbers, NFL Legend? Not by a longshot.
Doesn't really matter however, he's in so that's that.Comment
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Re: Warren Moon is not Hall worthy
Originally posted by SquintInteresting......if you remove "dome" from that last paragraph it almost sounds like you are describing Dan Marino.Comment
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Re: Warren Moon is not Hall worthy
Originally posted by billmaticWell, except for the super bowl appearance part. But, yeah. Saying he only put up stats because he was in a pass happy offense is garbage. Plenty of QB's played in pass happy offenses, but plenty of QB's aren't in the top 5 of every major passing category.Comment
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