Michael Vick Discussion Thread

[JBH3]

Re: Michael Vick Discussion Thread

I don't see how, the guy has been a quarterback his entire life yet somehow he's going to play receiver? That just doesn't make sense.

Up until their NFL tenures Randel El, Crayton, Matt Jones, etc. were QBs their entire life.

So how does it not make sense?

This isn't to say that I only see his NFL future as a WR, but it at least makes sense.

Plus you throw in the FACT that Vick was a gimmick at QB, a player w/ exceptional speed and agility and a rocket-arm that prevented him from moving to another position. He's not your prototypical QB, and had it not been for his arm strength he probably would've been converted to a WR a long time ago.

[jmood88]

Re: Michael Vick Discussion Thread

Up until their NFL tenures Randel El, Crayton, Matt Jones, etc. were QBs their entire life.

So how does it not make sense?

This isn't to say that I only see his NFL future as a WR, but it at least makes sense.

Plus you throw in the FACT that Vick was a gimmick at QB, a player w/ exceptional speed and agility and a rocket-arm that prevented him from moving to another position. He's not your prototypical QB, and had it not been for his arm strength he probably would've been converted to a WR a long time ago.

They were never starting quarterbacks in the NFL, which is why he's different from them. Not only was he a starting quarterback but he was a pro bowl quarterback.

[N51_rob]

Re: Michael Vick Discussion Thread

To add, to JBH3. Having played QB MV7 has an understanding of the passing game that is unique to QB's. He understands (or you would think that he would) why the correct depth of routes is important, why getting your shoulder turned to your QB on time and in rythem makes a pass easier. He could be tought the nueances of the position, but he comes in having a greater understanding of the passing game as a whole if a team puts him at WR.

Hell in the Fiesta Bowl Terell Pryor had a receiving TD. Albeit on a fade route, but he still had to understand where the sideline was and keep his feet in bounds. That was with only a few practices.

[Brandwin]

Re: Michael Vick Discussion Thread

I don't know why Slavemaster Goodell would give Vick an additional 4 games suspension considering he just served a prison sentence, but I'm happy he's back in the league. Minnesota needs to end this Brett Favre nonsense and let Vick and Peterson run wild. That team would be very exciting to watch.

You would rather have Vick back there then Favre?

[Cebby]

Re: Michael Vick Discussion Thread

He's not your prototypical QB, and had it not been for his arm strength he probably would've been converted to a WR a long time ago.

Well duh.

No quarterback would be playing quarterback if they didn't have any arm strength.

[jmood88]

Re: Michael Vick Discussion Thread

Well duh.

No quarterback would be playing quarterback if they didn't have any arm strength.

If Steve Smith couldn't catch he would be a cornerback
If Brandon Jacobs couldn't run he would be an offensive lineman
If Johnathan Ogden was faster and could catch he would've been a tight end
If Barry Sanders was tall he wouldn't have been short

[JBH3]

Re: Michael Vick Discussion Thread

They were never starting quarterbacks in the NFL, which is why he's different from them. Not only was he a starting quarterback but he was a pro bowl quarterback.

What part of "UP UNTIL THEIR NFL TENURE" did you NOT understand?

Well duh.

No quarterback would be playing quarterback if they didn't have any arm strength.

Yea...decision making, accuracy, audibling/reading the D, not ALSO important attributes/traits of a QB.

He was kept as a QB because Mora, Reeves, etc. thought they could work on the other aspects of him becoming a PASSER.

We never saw that happen...he never posted a comp. % over 56%, his last 3 full seasons he never had a QB rating over 75, and he was throwing the pic those 3 years at career marks...I guess trying to catch up to ol' Fav-re.

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Geez people...Vick at the QB was a GIMMICK. He made Pro Bowls because he put up astronomical rushing stats from the QB position, and otherwise had a highlight reel of Barry Sanders type runs...Ex. Game winning TD run in Minny jumping between two defenders trying to sandwich him.



EDIT: And before anyone tries to make a case about not having the bodies at WR to make him better...2001 Eagles leading receiver was James Thrash and Duece Staley and that year McNabb threw for 3,000+, 25/12 td/int, and an 86 passer rtg.

Recievers, or lack thereof was never Vicks issue, Vick's passing was the issue.

[Pappy Knuckles]

Re: Michael Vick Discussion Thread

You would rather have Vick back there then Favre?

Yeah I would. I think the threat of Adrian Peterson and Michael Vick would give the Vikings offense a very nice look. Michael Vick was never considered a great quarterback but he was a winner. He did amazing things on the football field, and assuming he still has the same athleticism and speed, I could see the Vikes scoring a lot of points. If the D locks in on AP, Vick might might bust one up field for 50 yards.

I'm tired of the Brett Favre saga. I think he's a good QB and would help the Vikings out, but how long would he even be there? Next season the drama would begin all over again and the Vikings would be on the search another guy to take snaps. I think Vick would bring them a lot of versatility.

[jmood88]

Re: Michael Vick Discussion Thread

What part of "UP UNTIL THEIR NFL TENURE" did you NOT understand?

Never said I didn't understand it but it's irrelevant. Michael Vick isn't some guy coming out college who can't play quarterback at the next level, he's a former starter, pro bowler, and playoff winner in the NFL.

Geez people...Vick at the QB was a GIMMICK. He made Pro Bowls because he put up astronomical rushing stats from the QB position, and otherwise had a highlight reel of Barry Sanders type runs...Ex. Game winning TD run in Minny jumping between two defenders trying to sandwich him.

What makes someone a gimmick? His ability to throw helped his running since defenders had to worry about him out running them or throwing it to a receiver if they abandoned their assignment.

[JBH3]

Re: Michael Vick Discussion Thread

Never said I didn't understand it but it's irrelevant. Michael Vick isn't some guy coming out college who can't play quarterback at the next level, he's a former starter, pro bowler, and playoff winner in the NFL.



What makes someone a gimmick? His ability to throw helped his running since defenders had to worry about him out running them or throwing it to a receiver if they abandoned their assignment.

All because of his legs, not his arm, and QBs don't become QB's because of their legs.

So what are going we to see? MV7 come back into the picture after a 2 yr lay-off a la Randall Cunningham re-incarnate and put up career passing numbers?

You're making this "He was a pro-bowler" etc case for Vick, w/o acknowledging the means in which he got there.

He's never had the accuracy, he's been rotting in a cell for 2 years, and now he's going to come back and be darting and dodging around the field again like it's 2006 (1,000+ rushing yds) or better yet I'll dumb it down...2005, 597 rushing yds.

If Minny wanted to and didn't have the best RB in the game they could probably just let Tavaris Jackson run around defenses and be somewhat successful. Instead they want to TRY and develop him as a passer...at one point Vick's headcoaches wanted to do the same but gave up, and just decided to let him do "his thing".

They won a lot of games because Vick was a force w/ his speed and agility from the QB position...NOT because he was picking defenses apart. In fact...to capitalize on Vicks abilities Mora had to draw up plays to stack the line and run a psuedo option w/ Vick.

EDIT: "Gimmick"... Used in the context of unconventional play. Randle El lining up as a WR, faking a reverse, and passing it downfield is a "GIMMICK" play. Vick, behind center, faking to be a QB is a gimmick everytime.

If he was so effective throwing on the run then his numbers would prove that. He would've ran bootlegs all the time and had a higher completion % because of it... if that's what you're trying to say.

The fact is he wasn't effective running and throwing because to do so you also have to have ACCURACY. Often times Vick's passes would sail over the head of a receiver because he had too much velocity behind it.

He has NO touch in his passes. It's all 100 mph, catch it if you can...and they do...a career 56% of the time.

[jmood88]

Re: Michael Vick Discussion Thread

All because of his legs, not his arm, and QBs don't become QB's because of their legs.

So what are going to see? MV7 come back into the picture after a 2 yr lay-off a la Randall Cunningham and put up career passing numbers?

You're making this "He was a pro-bowler" etc case for Vick, w/o acknowledging the means in which he got there.

He's never had the accuracy, he's been rotting in a cell for 2 years, and now he's going to come back and be darting and dodging around the field again like it's 2006 (1,000+ rushing yds) or better yet I'll dumb it down...2005, 597 rushing yds.

If Minny wanted to and didn't have the best RB in the game they could probably just let Tavaris Jackson run around defenses and be somewhat successful. Instead they want to TRY and develop him as a passer...at one point Vick's headcoaches wanted to do the same but gave up, and just decided to let him do "his thing".

They won a lot of games because Vick was a force w/ his speed and agility from the QB position...NOT because he was picking defenses apart. In fact...to capitalize on Vicks abilities Mora had to draw up plays to stack the line and run a psuedo option w/ Vick.

Oh no a coach adjusted to his player's strengths! He's more likely to make an impact at a position that he's had success at in the league rather than switching him to something completely different just because he's fast. Why not just move him to corner or safety? That would make just as much sense as saying that a fast quarterback=wide reciever. If Tavaris Jackson had Michael Vick's ability he would be doing alot better than he is right now, regardless of whether the coaches are trying to turn him into a passer or not. I never said that he was the best quarterback ever but at his position he was obviously incredibly hard to stop and moving him to receiver because he can run would do nothing but take away from what he can bring to a team.

And please stop with the "I'll dumb it down for you" comments, they add nothing to the discussion.

[JerzeyReign]

Re: Michael Vick Discussion Thread

WTF is going on through you people's minds? Backup QB at best? Yeah he's not the best passer and yeah he has some rust to shake off, but a BACKUP?? You've got to be kiddin me. He made teams adjust to him. Adding to that, what coach has he had that's actually tried to develop him into a passer? From what I've seen throughout his career is basically a "do what you do" approach when it came to him. I know what it is, you don't like him because he rolls out almost every play, right? Or he rolls to his left to throw to his right buying time until the coverage breaks down. I guess Michael Vick was a real life cheeser and you "simulation" guys can't stand it, right? Let's keep it 100, most of you guys were praising him when he was on top but turned your back when he hit the bottom. His name should be Michael "Jesus" Vick, you flippin Judas. Get over yourselves you Viking, Seahawks, Texans, Redskins, Bronco fans need to pray you get him.
Tired of people with this Michael Vick sucks ish, he was the highest paid quarterback at one time...

Just venting your actually getting a watered down version of the argument I had with friends and strangers.

And oh yeah where I'm from dogfighting is accepted, just like shooting a deer, turkey, bear, or moose

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Michael Vick Discussion Thread

So people are using the "He's fast" argument as the only reason he can play WR? Didn't know speed was all that was required to play that position.

[Cebby]

Re: Michael Vick Discussion Thread

Never said I didn't understand it but it's irrelevant. Michael Vick isn't some guy coming out college who can't play quarterback at the next level, he's a former starter, pro bowler, and playoff winner in the NFL.



What makes someone a gimmick? His ability to throw helped his running since defenders had to worry about him out running them or throwing it to a receiver if they abandoned their assignment.

Aside from Kobe, Vick probably is the player who draws the strangest reactions. While Vick never turned into the revolution that he was supposed to from 2002-2004, he's hardly the bumpkin that people like to paint him as now.

For the most part, he was a midrange 10-15 quarterback. In 2002 and 2004, he probably jumped up to mid top 10, but he was never close to being one of the worst QBs. Much like Kobe, I think people use their personal feelings towards him to pretend that he was a terrible player.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Michael Vick Discussion Thread

WTF is going on through you people's minds? Backup QB at best? Yeah he's not the best passer and yeah he has some rust to shake off, but a BACKUP?? You've got to be kiddin me. He made teams adjust to him. Adding to that, what coach has he had that's actually tried to develop him into a passer? From what I've seen throughout his career is basically a "do what you do" approach when it came to him. I know what it is, you don't like him because he rolls out almost every play, right? Or he rolls to his left to throw to his right buying time until the coverage breaks down. I guess Michael Vick was a real life cheeser and you "simulation" guys can't stand it, right? Let's keep it 100, most of you guys were praising him when he was on top but turned your back when he hit the bottom. His name should be Michael "Jesus" Vick, you flippin Judas. Get over yourselves you Viking, Seahawks, Texans, Redskins, Bronco fans need to pray you get him.
Tired of people with this Michael Vick sucks ish, he was the highest paid quarterback at one time...

Just venting your actually getting a watered down version of the argument I had with friends and strangers.

And oh yeah where I'm from dogfighting is accepted, just like shooting a deer, turkey, bear, or moose

What?