The Peyton Manning Discussion thread

[untrugby]

Re: So if Peyton Manning gets injured....

Anyways, I'm getting a little off track. The Chargers had a fine defense last year, I just don't think they were nearly as effective as the Steelers or Packers. The main point I was trying to make earlier is that the Colts aren't going to win a Super Bowl with Peyton Manning, Andrew Luck, or whoever at QB until they get their defense rebuilt. That should be their priority, and as long as Peyton can play, they should never draft a backup "QB of the future" over an elite defender. If the supporting cast is strong enough, Peyton's replacement can start on day #1 of his rookie season and be successful. Roethlisberger, Ryan, and VY are great examples of this.

youre missing the whole point. the chargers have a top tier qb, the #1 offense and the #1 defense and they still missed the playoffs. so saying a rookie qb with a solid colts defense or a 40 year old peyton with a strong defense would for sure make a playoff run isnt entirely accurate.
Also youre not taking into accounts the "what ifs" this thread is based on.
1. peyton manning misses the entire season
2. the colts go 1-15 and have the #1 pick.
3. andrew luck has a heisman like season and doesnt end up like slipping like leinhart.

So you have a 36 year old manning with was only supposed to miss a couple weeks recovering from his neck thing but misses an entire year and youre still not sure about his neck and curtis painter just took your 10 win team down to 1 win. you have to have a QB and manning is a maybe. you have a chance to grab a franchise guy. with 4 years on mannings deal you can either choose to try and build another tam around manning on his last leg or start building a team that will start winning 10 wins a year for the next 10 years with luck. plus you get the added advantage of manning teaching luck and then possibly being the qb coach / oc for the colts when he retires.

[RememberMe12]

Re: So if Peyton Manning gets injured....

youre missing the whole point. the chargers have a top tier qb, the #1 offense and the #1 defense and they still missed the playoffs. so saying a rookie qb with a solid colts defense or a 40 year old peyton with a strong defense would for sure make a playoff run isnt entirely accurate.
Also youre not taking into accounts the "what ifs" this thread is based on.
1. peyton manning misses the entire season
2. the colts go 1-15 and have the #1 pick.
3. andrew luck has a heisman like season and doesnt end up like slipping like leinhart.

So you have a 36 year old manning with was only supposed to miss a couple weeks recovering from his neck thing but misses an entire year and youre still not sure about his neck and curtis painter just took your 10 win team down to 1 win. you have to have a QB and manning is a maybe. you have a chance to grab a franchise guy. with 4 years on mannings deal you can either choose to try and build another tam around manning on his last leg or start building a team that will start winning 10 wins a year for the next 10 years with luck. plus you get the added advantage of manning teaching luck and then possibly being the qb coach / oc for the colts when he retires.

Defense is so subjective, especially in yards. Depending on where the offense turns the ball over, thats when the defensive yards given up start. If the Chargers turned the ball over a lot in their own territory, of course they would be number one. Not saying its true, but possible.

The Packers in 2006 were number one in pass defense, but if you watched any games they gave up tons of passing plays with Al Harris, Ahmad Carroll and Joey Thomas playing corner. Heck, they even let Trent Dilfer of the Browns throw three touchdown passes. It probably had more to do with Brett Favre's 29 interceptions that year and the area where the defense had to take over.

[skydog71]

Re: So if Peyton Manning gets injured....

youre missing the whole point. the chargers have a top tier qb, the #1 offense and the #1 defense and they still missed the playoffs. so saying a rookie qb with a solid colts defense or a 40 year old peyton with a strong defense would for sure make a playoff run isnt entirely accurate.
Also youre not taking into accounts the "what ifs" this thread is based on.
1. peyton manning misses the entire season
2. the colts go 1-15 and have the #1 pick.
3. andrew luck has a heisman like season and doesnt end up like slipping like leinhart.

So you have a 36 year old manning with was only supposed to miss a couple weeks recovering from his neck thing but misses an entire year and youre still not sure about his neck and curtis painter just took your 10 win team down to 1 win. you have to have a QB and manning is a maybe. you have a chance to grab a franchise guy. with 4 years on mannings deal you can either choose to try and build another tam around manning on his last leg or start building a team that will start winning 10 wins a year for the next 10 years with luck. plus you get the added advantage of manning teaching luck and then possibly being the qb coach / oc for the colts when he retires.

I would agree with you if we were talking about any QB besides Peyton Manning. Since his rookie season, the Colts have made the playoffs every season except for 2001 when their defense allowed a mind numbing 30+ points/game. Even last season, with an injured neck, bum offensive line, and the #23 ranked defense... he still somehow willed the Colts into the playoffs. Add in the fact that he's never missed a game, there's just no way that you could give up on him if he misses a single season. The Colts need to see some sort of drop off in production before they start looking for a replacement.

Now, if he starts talking retirement and sounds uncertain about his future, that changes things. But the OP notes that the injury would NOT be "career threatening".

[untrugby]

Re: So if Peyton Manning gets injured....

Depends on how much you could get for Luck. If you can get a pro bowler, Top 10 pick in 2012, a 2nd rounder, and then a 1 and 2 in 2013 with some other picks (a 3 and maybe a 5 and 6) you do it because Manning is loved in the city and he still gives them the best chance to win for the next 3 years or so. Surround him with the best talent possible.

Jay Cutler trade:

Denver got: Good stop-gap QB in Orton, 2 Rd 1 picks, RD 3 pick

Chicago got: Jay Cutler, RD 5 pick

My proposed Andrew Luck trade:

Colts get: Good player (Orton), 2 RD 1 picks, 2 RD 2 picks, RD 3 pick

Breaking it down, Andrew Luck is worth 2 more 2nd rounders than Jay Cutler, Considering Cutler is so inconsistent and Luck is considered to be a "can't miss guy" somebody would do it.

you said a PRO BOWL player, a top 10 2012 pick. a 1 future 1st rounder, 2 2nds, a 3rd and a 5th

Orton was not a probowl player, the broncos gave up the 18th pick which was their 2nd 1st rounder from another trade (i.e. expendable) and they have to give back a 5th. Plus cutler was coming off a pro bowl season.

So you think an unproven rookie qb is worth a significantly higher 1st round pick, 2 2nds, 2 5ths and an upgrade from a below average qb to a probowler over a franchise QB in his 3rd year coming off a probowl season?

[p_rushing]

Re: So if Peyton Manning gets injured....

The #1 pick is worth a lot more now than it was. Before you had to give up players/picks to move up and then also pay the rookie you picked. ow you don't have to pay them much and there is no way they hold out, so there is minimal risk other than them being a bust.

The Colts need to bring in a good QB coach if they are going to draft a rookie QB in the 1st round. Manning has not helped his backups and if you believe some of the rumors over the years, they are little more than an a/v guy for the team. Preparing game video for Manning to watch and scouting the other team for him. If you just look at their performance on the field, the backups have been terrible. It shows that something isn't working for them.

[slickdtc]

Re: So if Peyton Manning gets injured....

They also are always getting their first taste of NFL action in very rare spot duty. Sorgi, Painter... these guys aren't veteran backups or former starters, they're all young guys. If you gave them a few games, I don't think they'd be as terrible as their one game cup of coffee indicates. Not starter material I'm sure, but not horrible as they have been.

[mestevo]

Re: So if Peyton Manning gets injured....

We forgot another option, Colts don't settle with 'oh well we're awful' and sign a veteran QB.

Colts today signed QB Kerry Collins.

[KSUowls]

Re: So if Peyton Manning gets injured....

Depends on how much you could get for Luck. If you can get a pro bowler, Top 10 pick in 2012, a 2nd rounder, and then a 1 and 2 in 2013 with some other picks (a 3 and maybe a 5 and 6) you do it because Manning is loved in the city and he still gives them the best chance to win for the next 3 years or so. Surround him with the best talent possible.

Jay Cutler trade:

Denver got: Good stop-gap QB in Orton, 2 Rd 1 picks, RD 3 pick

Chicago got: Jay Cutler, RD 5 pick

My proposed Andrew Luck trade:

Colts get: Good player (Orton), 2 RD 1 picks, 2 RD 2 picks, RD 3 pick

Breaking it down, Andrew Luck is worth 2 more 2nd rounders than Jay Cutler, Considering Cutler is so inconsistent and Luck is considered to be a "can't miss guy" somebody would do it.

The thing you have to remember is that when Chicago traded all of that for Cutler he was coming off of a probowl season in which he passed for over 4500 yards and 25 touchdowns in just his 3rd year in the league. So, I just can't see an unproven college player being worth more than that, especially by such a significant margin.

[For The Win]

Re: So if Peyton Manning gets injured....

Jay Cutler trade:

Denver got: Good stop-gap QB in Orton, 2 Rd 1 picks, RD 3 pick

Chicago got: Jay Cutler, RD 5 pick

My proposed Andrew Luck trade:

Colts get: Good player (Orton-esque), 2 RD 1 picks, 2 RD 2 picks, RD 3 pick

My bad I started quoting the wrong posts earlier but that is what I think Luck would be worth. Just in my opinion though. But yes, I do think Luck is worth two first round picks more than Cutler. Forget my earlier post poor word choice.

[Palo20]

The thing you have to remember is that when Chicago traded all of that for Cutler he was coming off of a probowl season in which he passed for over 4500 yards and 25 touchdowns in just his 3rd year in the league. So, I just can't see an unproven college player being worth more than that, especially by such a significant margin.

Luck is considered the best QB prospect since Manning. If a team wants to trade up to get him, it'll cost A LOT.

I would vote to take Luck regardless of your QB situation. Always take the best player available.

[illbizzness]

Re: So if Peyton Manning gets injured....

I would stick with Peyton Manning untill his head actually falls off his injured neck. Personally I think that Peytons injury is news fodder. He is a polarizing figure, and so what better situation than this one to generate news from right?

I think that the Colts can make up games in that division because:
1. Tennessee sucks.
2. Jacksonville has issues on both sides of the ball.
3. Houston has only proven that they cannot be relied upon to win the division.

Until another AFC South team sustains success like the colts have then I can't see anyone in that division leap frogging them yet, even Manning does miss wk 1 or 2 or 3.

PLease


This will be the year that the Colts are unthroned Whether it is us remains to be seen but even the Jags came close last year. Them signing Collins means they're on worry status which means Peyton isn't 100% and I don't think they got it in them to win another 4 games straight at the end of the season if they end up in that position again.

[JBH3]

Re: So if Peyton Manning gets injured....

We forgot another option, Colts don't settle with 'oh well we're awful' and sign a veteran QB.

Colts today signed QB Kerry Collins.

I thought the signing of Collins was hilarious. Hilarious in that what are the other two QBs even rostered for if you can't field from within a backup? Really what are they there for? Peyton's personal assistants or something?!

[p_rushing]

Re: So if Peyton Manning gets injured....

Really what are they there for? Peyton's personal assistants or something?!

There are rumors that they are just that and unless they can get/identify the game footage that Manning wants, they aren't on the team long.

[asdf3]

Re: So if Peyton Manning gets injured....

I would stick with Peyton Manning untill his head actually falls off his injured neck. Personally I think that Peytons injury is news fodder. He is a polarizing figure, and so what better situation than this one to generate news from right?

I think that the Colts can make up games in that division because:
1. Tennessee sucks.
2. Jacksonville has issues on both sides of the ball.
3. Houston has only proven that they cannot be relied upon to win the division.

Until another AFC South team sustains success like the colts have then I can't see anyone in that division leap frogging them yet, even Manning does miss wk 1 or 2 or 3.

Houston WILL dethrone the Colts this year. They have one of the best offenses in the league and only need to become a top 15-20 defense to make the playoffs.

[lonewolf371]

Re: So if Peyton Manning gets injured....

I thought the signing of Collins was hilarious. Hilarious in that what are the other two QBs even rostered for if you can't field from within a backup? Really what are they there for? Peyton's personal assistants or something?!

They probably save money vs. what Collins will make.