The Peyton Manning Discussion thread

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  • untrugby
    Haterade Drinker
    • Aug 2010
    • 1613

    #61
    Re: So if Peyton Manning gets injured....

    Originally posted by wwharton
    I actually disagree with this... pretty strongly. Best case scenario in most situations is for QBs not to start right away. Ryan (and Flacco... and Sanchez) had a TEAM around them that had a whole lot to do with their early success. Bradford, like Peyton was in a situation where they just told him to air it out no matter what. I'd much rather have seasoning for the rookies. For the few you just named (and I'll throw Freeman and Stafford on that list to for ya) I'll give you Brady, McNabb, Rodgers, Schaub, Rivers, Romo, Hasselbeck, and technically Eli and Big Ben also. Today's society is in too much of a rush to see results. These kids need to adjust to the game.
    Its 50/50 whether its good to start a QB their rookie season or have them sit. Brady, Romo, Schuab, and Hasselbeck arent very good examples since they were drafted to be backups and eli, big ben and mcnabb did end up starting by the end of their rookie year. A lot of this starting early was brought on by the huge contracts the top picks signed and when youre paying a guy 15+ mil a year you expect to get some production from them. Now that its a set scale we might see more sit a few years. I think it really depends on the mental makeup of the QB whether he can start day or wait a year or 2

    Comment

    • skydog71
      MVP
      • Jul 2004
      • 1772

      #62
      Re: So if Peyton Manning gets injured....

      Originally posted by wwharton
      I actually disagree with this... pretty strongly. Best case scenario in most situations is for QBs not to start right away. Ryan (and Flacco... and Sanchez) had a TEAM around them that had a whole lot to do with their early success. Bradford, like Peyton was in a situation where they just told him to air it out no matter what. I'd much rather have seasoning for the rookies. For the few you just named (and I'll throw Freeman and Stafford on that list to for ya) I'll give you Brady, McNabb, Rodgers, Schaub, Rivers, Romo, Hasselbeck, and technically Eli and Big Ben also. Today's society is in too much of a rush to see results. These kids need to adjust to the game.

      BTW, McNair's situation was much deeper than just making room for VY. I'm sure they would've rather had him around to mentor Young (and God knows he needed it). But with that said, McNair didn't have much left. For as much as he did on the Ravens, he gets too much credit. His stats were pretty bad both years. He made some big plays in the 4th qtr of games (that were usually close bc he didn't do much before then) but had a horrible playoff game in his first year and was bad or injured most of his second year. It may have just been time for him, but he's a competitor so he's not going to see that.
      I agree that McNair didn't have a lot in the tank when he got to Baltimore, but that brings up another interesting scenario. What if instead of drafting Ngata, the Ravens decided to draft a replacement for McNair? And let him sit on the bench for a couple of years instead of drafting Flacco in 2008? For example:

      Scenario A:
      2006 = Ravens draft Ngata
      2008 = Ravens draft Flacco
      2008 = Flacco starts at QB

      Scenario B:
      2006 = Ravens draft Cutler
      2008 = Cutler starts at QB
      2008 = Ravens draft Pro Bowl DT

      Now I know this isn't an apples to apples comparison, but in both scenarios, you've got good QB's and pro bowl DT's. However, in scenario A, you get 2 extra years of having a pro bowl DT.

      Comment

      • wwharton
        *ll St*r
        • Aug 2002
        • 26949

        #63
        Re: So if Peyton Manning gets injured....

        Originally posted by skydog71
        I agree that McNair didn't have a lot in the tank when he got to Baltimore, but that brings up another interesting scenario. What if instead of drafting Ngata, the Ravens decided to draft a replacement for McNair? And let him sit on the bench for a couple of years instead of drafting Flacco in 2008? For example:

        Scenario A:
        2006 = Ravens draft Ngata
        2008 = Ravens draft Flacco
        2008 = Flacco starts at QB

        Scenario B:
        2006 = Ravens draft Cutler
        2008 = Cutler starts at QB
        2008 = Ravens draft Pro Bowl DT

        Now I know this isn't an apples to apples comparison, but in both scenarios, you've got good QB's and pro bowl DT's. However, in scenario A, you get 2 extra years of having a pro bowl DT.
        I don't think Cutler was on the board when they picked but could be wrong on that. Thanking my lucky stars now, but I don't think BB would've passed on Cutler. With that said, that was the year Lewis made national stink about not having the big bodies in front of him so Ngata was really the ONLY pick bc Ray had to be happy.

        BTW, at the time they hadn't given up on Boller. They just thought McNair was a better option for a potential SB team. Even when they did draft Flacco, the plan was for Boller to start with Troy Smith being the backup and Flacco as the 3rd stringer. Boller got hurt, Smith got sick at the worse possible time and the rest is history.

        I'll go back to the other "what if" though. What if McNair stayed in TEN and started his last two years there (or one of them and stuck around as a VY back up in the other). VY could've been a perfect McNair clone, may have been more mature being directly under his wing, and the relationship between VY and Fisher could've been bridged.

        Comment

        • KSUowls
          All Star
          • Jul 2009
          • 5894

          #64
          Re: So if Peyton Manning gets injured....

          Originally posted by skydog71
          Oh man, Eagles were bad example. I know how those VY threads go...

          OK, let's say we are talking about the Patriots. In years Brady will be 37 (Manning will be 38). If given the opportunity, should the Patriots draft Luck and let him sit on the bench for 3 years?
          Not exactly true. Brady is 34 right now and Manning is 35 so 4 years from today they would be 38 and 39 :P

          The real issue is that this hypothetical calls for Manning to be hurt and miss the entire season. So that means he will be 36 when the 2012 draft comes around and for the 2012 season which would be Luck's rookie year. Now, history suggests that QBs retire around the age of 38 which would leave Manning just 2 years away from that threshold while coming back from a major injury in one of them.

          The historic trend for quarterbacks seems to be they greatly benefit from a few years of seasoning. There are instances where they can step in day 1 and succeed, but those are situations where a team had some pieces already there and the young qb can learn without having to have everything on his shoulders. An opportunity to draft a guy with loads of potential and have him learn from one of the best ever seems like a great opportunity.

          Comment

          • skydog71
            MVP
            • Jul 2004
            • 1772

            #65
            Re: So if Peyton Manning gets injured....

            Originally posted by wwharton
            I don't think Cutler was on the board when they picked but could be wrong on that. Thanking my lucky stars now, but I don't think BB would've passed on Cutler. With that said, that was the year Lewis made national stink about not having the big bodies in front of him so Ngata was really the ONLY pick bc Ray had to be happy.

            BTW, at the time they hadn't given up on Boller. They just thought McNair was a better option for a potential SB team. Even when they did draft Flacco, the plan was for Boller to start with Troy Smith being the backup and Flacco as the 3rd stringer. Boller got hurt, Smith got sick at the worse possible time and the rest is history.

            I'll go back to the other "what if" though. What if McNair stayed in TEN and started his last two years there (or one of them and stuck around as a VY back up in the other). VY could've been a perfect McNair clone, may have been more mature being directly under his wing, and the relationship between VY and Fisher could've been bridged.
            I'm not sure that a McNair-VY combo would have ever been possible. I was sort of hoping for that, as were a lot of other Titans fans, but the money we spent on VY pretty much priced us out of making a deal with McNair. We probably would have had 25% of our salary cap tied up at one position if we had kept both, and we just weren't in a position to do that. The addition of VY was sort of the catalyst in getting McNair moved.

            Now if we could have signed VY at a "rookie wage scale" price, it's possible that we could have also kept McNair. I guess things would turned out better for VY, I mean, it would definitely have been the ideal scenario. McNair was like a father to VY. But then again, I'm not sure if VY ever had the work ethic to succeed in the NFL.

            But I think drafting a replacement for McNair is very different than drafting a replacement for Manning. McNair was constantly getting injured and missing games, so his "heir" would have been getting significant playtime as a backup. Manning never gets injured, so his "heir" would just hold the clipboard and eat popcorn on the sidelines for 3 years.

            Comment

            • wwharton
              *ll St*r
              • Aug 2002
              • 26949

              #66
              Re: So if Peyton Manning gets injured....

              Originally posted by skydog71
              I'm not sure that a McNair-VY combo would have ever been possible. I was sort of hoping for that, as were a lot of other Titans fans, but the money we spent on VY pretty much priced us out of making a deal with McNair. We probably would have had 25% of our salary cap tied up at one position if we had kept both, and we just weren't in a position to do that. The addition of VY was sort of the catalyst in getting McNair moved.

              Now if we could have signed VY at a "rookie wage scale" price, it's possible that we could have also kept McNair. I guess things would turned out better for VY, I mean, it would definitely have been the ideal scenario. McNair was like a father to VY. But then again, I'm not sure if VY ever had the work ethic to succeed in the NFL.

              But I think drafting a replacement for McNair is very different than drafting a replacement for Manning. McNair was constantly getting injured and missing games, so his "heir" would have been getting significant playtime as a backup. Manning never gets injured, so his "heir" would just hold the clipboard and eat popcorn on the sidelines for 3 years.
              If McNair accepted that he was on his last leg and took a pay cut it could've happened also. I'm not blaming him for not feeling that way or doing that... I'm sure I would've felt the same as he did. Plus it seemed like they got a little ugly when trying to sort things out. You may be right about VY but I think we'll find out soon enough. I can see being a back up (to Vick of all people) in Philly (of all places) being the perfect situation for him. If he doesn't seem to progress in the next year or two then it's all on him.

              That's true about Manning not getting hurt but the offense is also completely on his shoulders while McNair was just an important piece in their offense. Painter may be just holding a clip board but Luck behind Manning would be learning... a lot. I'm curious to see what happens with Mallett. I think that'll be a good example of what this hypothetical could look like (even though the Pats aren't quite like the Colts and Luck looks like a better prospect than Mallett).

              Comment

              • skydog71
                MVP
                • Jul 2004
                • 1772

                #67
                Re: So if Peyton Manning gets injured....

                Originally posted by wwharton
                If McNair accepted that he was on his last leg and took a pay cut it could've happened also. I'm not blaming him for not feeling that way or doing that... I'm sure I would've felt the same as he did. Plus it seemed like they got a little ugly when trying to sort things out. You may be right about VY but I think we'll find out soon enough. I can see being a back up (to Vick of all people) in Philly (of all places) being the perfect situation for him. If he doesn't seem to progress in the next year or two then it's all on him.

                That's true about Manning not getting hurt but the offense is also completely on his shoulders while McNair was just an important piece in their offense. Painter may be just holding a clip board but Luck behind Manning would be learning... a lot. I'm curious to see what happens with Mallett. I think that'll be a good example of what this hypothetical could look like (even though the Pats aren't quite like the Colts and Luck looks like a better prospect than Mallett).
                Drafting a QB in the 3rd round (like the Pats did with Mallet) would be an awesome move by the Colts. I just don't like the idea of using the #1 overall pick to replace your team's best player several years before he is ready to retire.

                I'm also interested to see how things play out in Philly. It really is a perfect situation for VY.

                Comment

                • Jibbler
                  Banned
                  • Jan 2011
                  • 1001

                  #68
                  Re: So if Peyton Manning gets injured....

                  Well this is going to become a reality now as it looks like hes gone for the year

                  Comment

                  • ProfessaPackMan
                    Bamma
                    • Mar 2008
                    • 63852

                    #69
                    Re: So if Peyton Manning gets injured....

                    The good news for Colts fans? According to Chris Mortensen of ESPN, a new procedure/surgery on quarterback Peyton Manning’s neck has not been performed nor is plan.
                    The bad news? Here are the key words from Mort: “As of now.”
                    Mort says that Manning is “getting multiple opinions” and “still waiting for answers on slow progress.”
                    Mort also offered up an ominous but vague assessment of Manning’s availability for Week One against the Texans. Pointing out that the Colts didn’t believe Manning would be ready for the opener upon signing quarterback Kerry Collins, Mort now says that “[b]arring [a] miracle, that’s more evident.”
                    As to Manning’s status and the slow recovery following the May procedure, Mortensen writes that “[o]ne possibility is scar tissue trapping inflammation/nerves,” but that there is “no consensus” among the doctors who are on the case.
                    Bottom line? It’s looking more and more like Manning won’t play in Week One. The bigger question at this point is whether he’ll be available come Week Two, and beyond.
                    12345678910loko
                    #RespectTheCulture

                    Comment

                    • WyxHarmon
                      #nouss
                      • Aug 2010
                      • 2693

                      #70
                      Re: So if Peyton Manning gets injured....

                      Originally posted by Jibbler
                      Well this is going to become a reality now as it looks like hes gone for the year

                      Hoosiers
                      Pacers
                      Phillies
                      Ravens

                      73 - 72

                      Comment

                      • da ThRONe
                        Fire LesS Miles ASAP!
                        • Mar 2009
                        • 8528

                        #71
                        Re: So if Peyton Manning gets injured....

                        Can't believe the Colts were so eager to pay Peyton Manning this offseason.

                        If he can't recover from this the Colts will be bottom feeders for years, and it's all on them.
                        Last edited by da ThRONe; 09-05-2011, 11:21 AM.
                        You looking at the Chair MAN!

                        Number may not tell the whole story ,but they never lie either.

                        Comment

                        • xrams
                          MVP
                          • Nov 2005
                          • 1326

                          #72
                          Re: So if Peyton Manning gets injured....

                          Originally posted by da ThRONe
                          Can't believe the Colts were so eager to pay Peyton Manning this offseason.

                          If he can't recover from this the Colts will be bottom feeders for years, and it's all on them.
                          I agree with this completely... I can't understand why they threw all that money at him when they knew he was hurt...

                          Comment

                          • SPTO
                            binging
                            • Feb 2003
                            • 68046

                            #73
                            Re: So if Peyton Manning gets injured....

                            I think a lot of people had this scenario in the back of their minds. The Colts are screwed big time here as they're a nothing team without Manning. Seeing that Manning's ingury is of the neck variety and one that has reportedly taken a ton off his throwing arm he could be looking at calling it quits sooner rather than later.

                            I don't think Collins or Painter can pull off a Scott Mitchell type season which saved the Dolphins in the short term when Marino was out in '93 so for the long term future of the Colts this might be a blessing in disguise however I don't think they'll be bad enough to get Andrew Luck.
                            Member of the Official OS Bills Backers Club

                            "Baseball is the most important thing that doesn't matter at all" - Robert B. Parker

                            Comment

                            • lonewolf371
                              MVP
                              • Aug 2009
                              • 3420

                              #74
                              Re: So if Peyton Manning gets injured....

                              Are you kidding? After all this time and everything that he's done Manning gets a blank check. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. He's the franchise and this team that rose with his career at the beginning will go down with his career at the end and he gets whatever he wants until then. He deserves it, and when he's healthy he will vindicate any owner or general manager that gives him that chance.
                              NFL: Indianapolis Colts (12-6)
                              NBA: Indiana Pacers (42-13)
                              MLB: Cincinnati Reds (0-0)
                              NHL: Detroit Red Wings (26-20-12)
                              NCAA: Purdue Boilermakers (FB: 1-11, BB: 15-12), Michigan Wolverines (FB: 7-6, BB: 19-7, H: 15-10-3)

                              Comment

                              • TheMatrix31
                                RF
                                • Jul 2002
                                • 52927

                                #75
                                Re: So if Peyton Manning gets injured....

                                I still feel like Peyton will play Week 1, lol.

                                Comment

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