NFL Off Topic

[redsox4evur]

Re: NFL Off Topic

You think NFL teams would use a top pick on a developmental player? I can't see that ever happening, especially since they can't take some HS phenom and hope for the best. Baseball can be a crapshoot in the draft, NFL prospects have a much clearer career projection, the bust rate is lower, there really isn't a need to take a risk on a player that may or may not contribute when the odds are in your favor to draft someone who can contribute immediately. NFL risks are usually about injuries or off field issues, in baseball it's a question of whether the kid can actually play

Teams have done this recently. Look at the Patriots in the draft before this years. There top 2 picks Dominique Easley and Jimmy Garoppolo. Easley was coming off of a torn ACL and Jimmy Garoppolo is a QB, enough said. So there are some teams that are taking projects. Also look at GB when they took Rodgers. He was a top QB in his draft and they still had Favre as a capable QB.

[l3ulvl]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Teams have done this recently. Look at the Patriots in the draft before this years. There top 2 picks Dominique Easley and Jimmy Garoppolo. Easley was coming off of a torn ACL and Jimmy Garoppolo is a QB, enough said. So there are some teams that are taking projects. Also look at GB when they took Rodgers. He was a top QB in his draft and they still had Favre as a capable QB.

Idunno man, sure those are technically top picks because of the rounds they were taken but Easley & Rodgers were mid-late 20s and Garoppolo was end of the 2nd. It's a lot easier to pick a potential incumbent at 62 than top 5. Lately when you take a top QB right away you want them to play immediately, look what happened with Manning and Luck in Indy, they couldn't bring Peyton back because Luck needed to play immediately, you can't really stash away top picks for the future in the NFL

[wwharton]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Your example reminds me of the Pistons drafting Darko

I bet you wish the D league was a legit alternative lol

Idunno man, sure those are technically top picks because of the rounds they were taken but Easley & Rodgers were mid-late 20s and Garoppolo was end of the 2nd. It's a lot easier to pick a potential incumbent at 62 than top 5. Lately when you take a top QB right away you want them to play immediately, look what happened with Manning and Luck in Indy, they couldn't bring Peyton back because Luck needed to play immediately, you can't really stash away top picks for the future in the NFL

We're talking NFL, not NBA where there are only 2 rounds. A 2nd round pick (62) is VERY valuable in the NFL, let alone a late 20s pick.

Manning wasn't let go because Luck needed to play immediately. Luck is a next generation player who would play right away no matter if there are minor leagues or not. Literally any other example would be better.

[l3ulvl]

Re: NFL Off Topic

I bet you wish the D league was a legit alternative lol

not sure if it would've mattered

We're talking NFL, not NBA where there are only 2 rounds. A 2nd round pick (62) is VERY valuable in the NFL, let alone a late 20s pick.

Manning wasn't let go because Luck needed to play immediately. Luck is a next generation player who would play right away no matter if there are minor leagues or not. Literally any other example would be better.

I understand a late 2nd round pick is valuable, but you can't possibly compare it to the value of a top 5 pick. Even when you used the Patriots for your hypothetical example you mentioned a trade that allowed them a high top pick, instead of their usual late 20s slot.

I'm not understanding your Luck/Manning comment. My point is even a legend will get kicked out if you have the top pick and a replacement is ready. Luck aside, which top 5 QBs have been given the year off lately? It seems the trend now is to play right away or at least midway through season 1.

[redsox4evur]

Re: NFL Off Topic

I'm not understanding your Luck/Manning comment. My point is even a legend will get kicked out if you have the top pick and a replacement is ready. Luck aside, which top 5 QBs have been given the year off lately? It seems the trend now is to play right away or at least midway through season 1.

He is trying to say that Luck/Manning is a horrible example because Luck is the next generational talent at QB in the NFL like Manning was coming out of the draft. Even if there was a D-League or whatever he would have been the starter anyway.

[l3ulvl]

Re: NFL Off Topic

He is trying to say that Luck/Manning is a horrible example because Luck is the next generational talent at QB in the NFL like Manning was coming out of the draft. Even if there was a D-League or whatever he would have been the starter anyway.

Ok, but after the year Indy had in 2011 wouldn't RG3 have been given the same treatment if Luck wasn't a draft option? Forget what you know about Griffin in hindsight, his stock wasn't that far below Luck's entering the draft. Would the Colts have retained Manning and sent Griffin to a D-League?

The year before was Cam, probably not considered generational talent, but if Carolina was in the same position Indy was in, would they have sent Cam to the d-league?

I'm also curious about the ramifications of KNOWING if a certain team selects you, you'll be sent down instead of playing, would a prospect pull an Eli or Elway and refuse to be drafted by a team if they know they'll get sent down to a lower division?

[wwharton]

Re: NFL Off Topic

I understand a late 2nd round pick is valuable, but you can't possibly compare it to the value of a top 5 pick. Even when you used the Patriots for your hypothetical example you mentioned a trade that allowed them a high top pick, instead of their usual late 20s slot.

I'm not understanding your Luck/Manning comment. My point is even a legend will get kicked out if you have the top pick and a replacement is ready. Luck aside, which top 5 QBs have been given the year off lately? It seems the trend now is to play right away or at least midway through season 1.

Relatively speaking for this discussion, you definitely can compare. So many players HAVE to get significant time in the NFL that what you need from your 2nd round pick is comparable to what an NBA team needs from their 1st rounder. And if we look at the success rate over the years, my guess is there isn't a huge difference in hits/misses between 1st and 2nd rounders. Just keep in mind the context of THIS conversation... we can't only talk about the top 5 picks.

As for Luck, you picked the Lebron James of draft picks... he's probably the closest thing to a can't miss #1 pick since Peyton Manning. Not to mention, your example paints the picture that Manning was his usual self with maybe a little rust on the rims. He just had a serious injury that made many wonder if he'd ever play again, or be close to the same if he did. For a comparison, if the Pats had the #1 pick, I don't see them shipping of Brady for Luck... maybe they trade him for A LOT or trade the pick, but it's not like they'd just let him walk.

Ok, but after the year Indy had in 2011 wouldn't RG3 have been given the same treatment if Luck wasn't a draft option? Forget what you know about Griffin in hindsight, his stock wasn't that far below Luck's entering the draft. Would the Colts have retained Manning and sent Griffin to a D-League?

The year before was Cam, probably not considered generational talent, but if Carolina was in the same position Indy was in, would they have sent Cam to the d-league?

I'm also curious about the ramifications of KNOWING if a certain team selects you, you'll be sent down instead of playing, would a prospect pull an Eli or Elway and refuse to be drafted by a team if they know they'll get sent down to a lower division?

No RG3 wasn't on the same planet as Luck, no matter his hype leading up to the draft. He never had a shot at being picked before Luck. As for Cam... maybe. As I mentioned, Carson Palmer, Steve McNair, Donovan McNabb, Phillip Rivers, Big Ben, Michael Vick, Eli Manning... all had to sit after being drafted high, with expectations of being the franchise QB.

You're pretty much explaining my issue with the league today... the culture has changed to say these kids should play right away. The norm used to be that there was a good chance these guys sit at least a few games, if not a year. Some guys prove their ready sooner, but these days they all get thrown into game action to be judged and beat down by the fans, media, and eventually the team.

[dsallupinyaarea]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Your Friday afternoon BSing read/watch:

http://smartfootball.com/defense/mastering-the-sack#more-4786

His book "The Essential Smart Football" is the goods. He released a new one last week but I haven't read it yet.

[Bmore Irish]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Your Friday afternoon BSing read/watch:

http://smartfootball.com/defense/mastering-the-sack#more-4786

His book "The Essential Smart Football" is the goods. He released a new one last week but I haven't read it yet.

I've been meaning to pick up The Essential Smart Football for a while now. Been seeing the new one mentioned quite a bit on Twitter, probably pick up both here soon.

[ThreeKing]

Re: NFL Off Topic

http://www.thescore.com/nfl/news/796304

[redsox4evur]

Re: NFL Off Topic

http://www.thescore.com/nfl/news/796304

Who did he play with in Miami? All I remember is maybe Matt Moore and a washed up Culpepper.

[ThreeKing]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Who did he play with in Miami? All I remember is maybe Matt Moore and a washed up Culpepper.

Exactly. It's a complete dig at Cutler.

[kehlis]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Exactly. It's a complete dig at Cutler.

Only in your world is that a "dig" at Cutler.

[ThreeKing]

Re: NFL Off Topic

I'm obviously aware that Cutler is terrible, but there's no way that he legitimately thinks that Orton was better. They had a falling out towards the end. It was well known around here.

[MajorSupreme]

Re: NFL Off Topic

I'm obviously aware that Cutler is terrible, but there's no way that he legitimately thinks that Orton was better. They had a falling out towards the end. It was well known around here.

Orton and Marshall had a falling out or Cutler and Marshall?