NFL Off Topic

[kingkilla56]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Nothing about the Dolphin player's responses or the SI article surprise me. It is the culture, and its probably why Martin completely left the situation. He was probably content leaving the game and Dolphins officials probed him about what happened and now hes labelled a "snitch". Awesome. He can't win.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: NFL Off Topic

It definitely is the culture but not just in Sports though. Take the Dolphins out of the equation and replace it with Neighborhood or Office and you'll still get the same responses.

Ideally, you'd want people to not be afraid and report any/all wrongdoing right away without having to worry about some type of consequence coming your way, but unfortunately this is something that's gone on even before most of us were even born and probably won't be changing anytime soon.

[ubernoob]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Anyone that helps condone these things that are serious in nature by not following up/continuing to let it happen are completely spineless to me.

[jWILL253]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Multimillionaire athletes risk their millions by acting like high schoolers. News at 11...

[wwharton]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Based on the info we have now, it sounds like he walked away because of the harassment, especially if what Kehlis said is true.

But like I asked a few pages ago, what does walking away actually solve? And that for his sake, he may be better off just walking away completely.

It removes him from the situation, but I don't think that's the question you're really asking. I'm guessing you want to know how that is the best solution. That's where all of the unknowns come into play. Who does Incognito have in his corner? He's on the leadership committee for God's sake... we've heard quotes from other players. What has Martin already tried to do "in house"? How much reason is there to take the "I'll kill you" threat seriously? We just found out that one NFL player may be a mass murderer... oh, and one of his boys happens to be a member of that Miami offensive line too. What is Martin's mental state? There are a million reasons he may not have felt there were any other options besides walking away. Whatever the reason, I will only see it as disturbing that it got to that point.

Anyone that helps condone these things that are serious in nature by not following up/continuing to let it happen are completely spineless to me.

If you've ever been in a similar situation, it'd be great for you to share the details and how you handled it. Not everyone is the same, but I think it'd shed great light to that side of the argument.

If you've never been in that situation and all of the talk is about what you would do if it were you, that's all speculation. I don't think there is a person on the planet that can't be put in an uncompromising situation, and you're extremely naive if you think your suggested solution here is easy and would work 100% of the time... I'd actually put money on less than 50%. Maybe even a lot less than 50% in this kind of setting. Most of the people saying he should've done something else are talking about punching the guy in the face, not running to authorities. Personally I think that's stupid, probably wouldn't work if it ended up in a one on one fight, and probably would end up in a many on one fight.

I won't hold it against you if you don't want to think outside of yourself, but using words like spineless is a bit much. Actually it's more than a bit much.

[VTPack919]

Re: NFL Off Topic

This may be the worst meme I have ever seen posted on this site. It actually made me irritated.

Thanks and carry on.

[ubernoob]

Re: NFL Off Topic

If you've ever been in a similar situation, it'd be great for you to share the details and how you handled it. Not everyone is the same, but I think it'd shed great light to that side of the argument.

If you've never been in that situation and all of the talk is about what you would do if it were you, that's all speculation. I don't think there is a person on the planet that can't be put in an uncompromising situation, and you're extremely naive if you think your suggested solution here is easy and would work 100% of the time... I'd actually put money on less than 50%. Maybe even a lot less than 50% in this kind of setting. Most of the people saying he should've done something else are talking about punching the guy in the face, not running to authorities. Personally I think that's stupid, probably wouldn't work if it ended up in a one on one fight, and probably would end up in a many on one fight.

I won't hold it against you if you don't want to think outside of yourself, but using words like spineless is a bit much. Actually it's more than a bit much.

Hmm. One that happened to me or one that I stopped?

One that happened to me - there's a "tradition" in the Marine Corps (at least the infantry platoons I was in) that when you get promoted, when you get your new rank pinned on your collar they leave the turtles (the little backings that go on the back of the pins) off and everyone comes up and hits them with their fist to congratulate you. What this does is drive the rank/pins into your collarbones. Not fun having rank literally pinned into your bone (or above/below it just through the skin if you were lucky.) Any time one of the Marines under me got promoted, I wouldn't let anyone else under me do that to the person or they would face the consequences. I had it happen to me once because I was naive and didn't know about the "tradition" of getting promoted.

One that I've seen stopped by others doing the right things? Getting the **** kicked out of you because it's your birthday. Birthdays are secrets to be held tight to your chest in an infantry platoon. You don't let anyone know when your birthday is, or you'll wind up with welts, bruises, cut marks and anything else you can think of down your legs and back. They'll take their belts off, boots, etc. It's up to the leadership (even at the small group level, which was where we were) to stop the dumb **** like that.

The same goes for promotion to NCO for the first time. Earning your blood stripes has been phased out of non-infantry platoons for the most part... but it's still there for a few of them. For those that don't know... Marine Corps dress blues (for e-4 and above) has a "blood stripe" (the red stripe) down the side of them. Well, when you get promoted they had/have this "tradition" of you going down a gauntlet and getting the sides of your legs pummeled until you basically can't walk. You will have then "earned your blood stripes" as the side of your leg is now a literal "bloodstripe" from all the bruising and swelling taking place.

I'm not saying "hazing" didn't go on at all, but everything seriously detrimental to the health and morale of the units I was in was well taken care of by everyone around us, both "leadership" and "non-leadership."

This is all recent stuff too, not even getting into the blood wings and "shoe black" incidents that occured back in the day to others before I was in (let's just say the "shoe black" stuff was forcing people to cause chemical burns to their manhood) that sparked this whole "stamp out hazing" fad in the Corps.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: NFL Off Topic

People are so dumb. None of that **** should ever have happened to begin with. So lame. Losers.

[Fresh Tendrils]

Re: NFL Off Topic

People are so dumb. None of that **** should ever have happened to begin with. So lame. Losers.

Seriously. **** all of that ****.

[SPTO]

Re: NFL Off Topic

People are so dumb. None of that **** should ever have happened to begin with. So lame. Losers.

Agreed

I saw the guys on Total Access discussing this yesterday or the day before and Warren Sapp made a good (though very disheartening point) when Billick said that the Dolphins organization must've known about this from the beginning. Sapp said that when all this started the Dolphins were playing good so everyone kept it on the down low but now that they're struggling and the situation has gotten out of hand that all bets are off and they're going to handle business.

This just shows the stupidity of the jock culture and culture in general. Yeah, put your head in the sand when things are going well in the workplace etc etc but when things get sour you take care of the situation when it's a helluva lot worse!? What kind of *** backwards thing is that?!

[wwharton]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Hmm. One that happened to me or one that I stopped?

One that happened to me - there's a "tradition" in the Marine Corps (at least the infantry platoons I was in) that when you get promoted, when you get your new rank pinned on your collar they leave the turtles (the little backings that go on the back of the pins) off and everyone comes up and hits them with their fist to congratulate you. What this does is drive the rank/pins into your collarbones. Not fun having rank literally pinned into your bone (or above/below it just through the skin if you were lucky.) Any time one of the Marines under me got promoted, I wouldn't let anyone else under me do that to the person or they would face the consequences. I had it happen to me once because I was naive and didn't know about the "tradition" of getting promoted.

One that I've seen stopped by others doing the right things? Getting the **** kicked out of you because it's your birthday. Birthdays are secrets to be held tight to your chest in an infantry platoon. You don't let anyone know when your birthday is, or you'll wind up with welts, bruises, cut marks and anything else you can think of down your legs and back. They'll take their belts off, boots, etc. It's up to the leadership (even at the small group level, which was where we were) to stop the dumb **** like that.

The same goes for promotion to NCO for the first time. Earning your blood stripes has been phased out of non-infantry platoons for the most part... but it's still there for a few of them. For those that don't know... Marine Corps dress blues (for e-4 and above) has a "blood stripe" (the red stripe) down the side of them. Well, when you get promoted they had/have this "tradition" of you going down a gauntlet and getting the sides of your legs pummeled until you basically can't walk. You will have then "earned your blood stripes" as the side of your leg is now a literal "bloodstripe" from all the bruising and swelling taking place.

I'm not saying "hazing" didn't go on at all, but everything seriously detrimental to the health and morale of the units I was in was well taken care of by everyone around us, both "leadership" and "non-leadership."

This is all recent stuff too, not even getting into the blood wings and "shoe black" incidents that occured back in the day to others before I was in (let's just say the "shoe black" stuff was forcing people to cause chemical burns to their manhood) that sparked this whole "stamp out hazing" fad in the Corps.

It sounds like you were in charge in the first situation. If you were witnessing that "tradition" about to happen with marines under someone else, would you step in to stop it? Would you consider anyone who wouldn't step in, even if they disagree with it, spineless?

If someone found out when your birthday was and "got" you, would you report them to the proper chain of command or go after everyone involved one by one?

I don't know if I sound like I don't, but I agree with your principles 100%. I just don't think it's fair to assume everyone who doesn't make a stand is spineless, or that I would react the same way in every single situation. Luckily I've stepped up in every situation put before me (that I can remember) and haven't been on the other side of things. But I can't call anyone spineless or anything close to it without walking in their shoes.

[areobee401]

Re: NFL Off Topic

I imagine there is some level of fear in players within the locker room when it comes to reporting something like this. Even more for the younger guys or those not signed long term to good money contracts.

Snitch label and all that attached to your name. Not saying them not speaking up is the decent thing to do, but I understand.

People tend to look the other way in a lot of cases because of money at stake.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: NFL Off Topic

It removes him from the situation, but I don't think that's the question you're really asking. I'm guessing you want to know how that is the best solution.

No, that was the question I was asking.

If there was a question I wanted ask, I would've asked it plain and simple. Either way, I think this whole thing is ridiculous and what's probably more ridiculous(not that I'm surprised at this)is that...this isn't going to stop anytime soon, in any locker room, Pro or College or even in HS depending on where you're at.

I just don't think it's fair to assume everyone who doesn't make a stand is spineless, or that I would react the same way in every single situation.

And it's not fair to call others who would react differently ignorant(which is an overused word on OS anyway). Not that you called anyone that.

[p_rushing]

Re: NFL Off Topic

I imagine there is some level of fear in players within the locker room when it comes to reporting something like this. Even more for the younger guys or those not signed long term to good money contracts.

Snitch label and all that attached to your name. Not saying them not speaking up is the decent thing to do, but I understand.

People tend to look the other way in a lot of cases because of money at stake.

I'm not sure most of the bullying was known. I can't believe that the others on the team would allow it to continue with the things in the voicemail and texts. If that stuff was going on out in the open, then the whole team should be suspended for allowing it. There could have been just the normal playful messing around in the locker room that the others saw and then the private stuff.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Martin's HS Coach isn't surprised he was being bullied:

While there’s plenty of chapter-and-verse to quote regarding the background of Dolphins guard and alleged bully Richie Incognito, less has been discussed about the qualities of Jonathan Martin, the bullied.
But Martin’s high school coach said that based on the player he coached, he’s not surprised another player zeroed in on Martin.
“Bullies usually go after people like him,” Harvard-Westlake School coach Vic Eumont told Andrew Abramson of the Palm Beach Post. “With his background, he’s a perfect target.”
After attending an upscale private high school, and then attending Stanford, there was a certain element Martin wasn’t exposed to along the way, and Eumont said that was going to be an adjustment.
“Before he wasn’t around Nebraska, LSU kind of guys,”Eumont said. “He’s always been around Stanford, Duke, Rice kind of players. . . .
“In locker rooms full of Nebraska, LSU, Southern Cal players, Miami players, they’ll look at this as a weakness. If he makes it through all this, and if he was encouraged to come back, he’d come back with a vengeance.”
Eumont described Martin as polite and popular among teammates and teachers, and that rather than lashing out at Incognito, he walked away.
“I can see where somebody that’s a bully will take advantage of him, and rather than him say anything would just hold it inside,” Eumont said of Martin. “I can see where if somebody was bullying him he would take that to heart, and be concerned and think it was his fault. . . .
“I think he’s a guy the Dolphins should work to get back in the fold. I think he can be an excellent player. He’s a great kid. He’s worth saving. If ever there’s a kid worth saving, he’s one of them.”
Eumont’s remarks point directly to the perception in some circles that Martin will be labeled as soft. But while Stanford is insulated academically, Martin was coached there by Jim Harbaugh, who isn’t exactly running a daisy farm.