NFL Off Topic

[ubernoob]

Re: NFL Off Topic

I just don't think it's fair to assume everyone who doesn't make a stand is spineless, or that I would react the same way in every single situation. Luckily I've stepped up in every situation put before me (that I can remember) and haven't been on the other side of things. But I can't call anyone spineless or anything close to it without walking in their shoes.

I've always spoken in harsh tones and been overly critical. It's just who I am. I also know that any situation I've been put in, I've stood up for what I think is right.

If someone doesn't stand up for what they actually believe in... Well, then to me they are either a) lying about "believing in it" when it reality is isn't a big deal to them or b) spineless for not standing up for what they think is right.

I mean, I'm not talking about minor transgressions here in this conversation. Nobody is an angel, nor am I claiming to be... but if something sticks out to me as being just plain wrong, I know what I'm doing in that situation and I fully believe that anyone who truly believes in the opposite would do the same thing.

Maybe it's just how I'm wired and have been raised, but I simply cannot wrap my head around not sticking up for either yourself or what you feel is right. I just don't understand that line of thinking, nor do I think I will ever - having already been put in positions where the easiest thing to do would be to shut up and go on about my day where that's not what I've done (nor seen others do.)

On a completely different level, in relation to what my man Pack posted...

I'm really sick and tired of seeing these kids from more prestigious academic backgrounds (Harvard, Stanford, Duke, etc.) being instantly labelled as soft for being intelligent on and off the field.

So what? The kid is intelligent enough to go to a prestigious university. That doesn't automatically make him a *****. When's the last time Andrew Luck was called soft? He went to Stanford, stayed in school when he could have came out and plays Quarterback. If anyone should be soft it's Andrew Luck, but I don't think anyone in the media would ever say that about him. Stupid ****ing narratives being perpetuated.

[kingkilla56]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Martin's HS Coach isn't surprised he was being bullied:

I dont like that he is differentiating Duke Stanford players from LSU Nebraska players. But I can't really disagree with anything he says there.

[wwharton]

Re: NFL Off Topic

No, that was the question I was asking.

If there was a question I wanted ask, I would've asked it plain and simple. Either way, I think this whole thing is ridiculous and what's probably more ridiculous(not that I'm surprised at this)is that...this isn't going to stop anytime soon, in any locker room, Pro or College or even in HS depending on where you're at.


And it's not fair to call others who would react differently ignorant(which is an overused word on OS anyway). Not that you called anyone that.

Thanks for letting me know, Pack. Sorry for digging further into the question. Didn't know it would touch a nerve (or why it did). I thought the answer to the question you asked was pretty obvious though. And it's not going to stop any time soon, and is far from the first time it's ever happened. That's why it surprises me that so many think people that would respond the way Martin did are abnormal too.

As for the second part, if you're not saying I called anyone ignorant then why post that in response to what I said? If I were going to use the word, I'd say we're all ignorant to Martin's situation... using the true definition of the word. It's not a knock on anyone, but calling someone spineless is. I can only speak for myself (but you did reply to my post) but I have no problem with how ubernoob would react to the situation, I questioned his generalizing how others would react considering none of us really know.

I've always spoken in harsh tones and been overly critical. It's just who I am. I also know that any situation I've been put in, I've stood up for what I think is right.

If someone doesn't stand up for what they actually believe in... Well, then to me they are either a) lying about "believing in it" when it reality is isn't a big deal to them or b) spineless for not standing up for what they think is right.

I mean, I'm not talking about minor transgressions here in this conversation. Nobody is an angel, nor am I claiming to be... but if something sticks out to me as being just plain wrong, I know what I'm doing in that situation and I fully believe that anyone who truly believes in the opposite would do the same thing.

Maybe it's just how I'm wired and have been raised, but I simply cannot wrap my head around not sticking up for either yourself or what you feel is right. I just don't understand that line of thinking, nor do I think I will ever - having already been put in positions where the easiest thing to do would be to shut up and go on about my day where that's not what I've done (nor seen others do.)

I hear you but you didn't really answer the questions? Unless that was your answer... you would stop someone else allowing the pinning tradition, and would go after people that jumped you on your bday. I'm asking bc I can imagine those are cases that stepping up would come with serious backlash. And props to you if you would, but you would really think that little of anyone else who struggled with that decision? Even in the Marines, I can imagine you come across many people like that, let alone civilians.

On a completely different level, in relation to what my man Pack posted...

I'm really sick and tired of seeing these kids from more prestigious academic backgrounds (Harvard, Stanford, Duke, etc.) being instantly labelled as soft for being intelligent on and off the field.

So what? The kid is intelligent enough to go to a prestigious university. That doesn't automatically make him a *****. When's the last time Andrew Luck was called soft? He went to Stanford, stayed in school when he could have came out and plays Quarterback. If anyone should be soft it's Andrew Luck, but I don't think anyone in the media would ever say that about him. Stupid ****ing narratives being perpetuated.

I think it's different with a QB, but yeah, it's all stupid. Most reasons people are considered soft is stupid if you ask me. But to be fair, Incognito is just a POS. If he were removed from the equation, seems like this wouldn't be an issue.

[ubernoob]

Re: NFL Off Topic

I hear you but you didn't really answer the questions? Unless that was your answer... you would stop someone else allowing the pinning tradition, and would go after people that jumped you on your bday. I'm asking bc I can imagine those are cases that stepping up would come with serious backlash. And props to you if you would, but you would really think that little of anyone else who struggled with that decision? Even in the Marines, I can imagine you come across many people like that, let alone civilians

I have stopped what I can (I mean, I can't run in and interrupt a promotion ceremony no matter how much I may want to.) I also know people that don't try to stop that stuff, but that stuff doesn't bother them (which, to me is fine. They can think what they want.) I got backlash, but it was very slight from a very few specific sources. Namely the people who say "BUT I WAS HAZED SO I'M GONNA TAKE THE HAZING A STEP FARTHER TO MAKE UP FOR WHAT WAS DONE TO ME." I mean, I didn't go after people that jumped me on my BDays (it only happened twice) because that part wasn't a big deal to me... but I know some of the kids (I joined at 20 and had gone to college, so I was a bit of an oddity in the junior enlisted in the platoons. I was already older than most of my platoon and team/squad leaders when I was new until I got those billets) that were straight from home out of high school were scared to death of it so we did whatever we could to make sure nothing serious happened to them.

I think it's different with a QB, but yeah, it's all stupid. Most reasons people are considered soft is stupid if you ask me. But to be fair, Incognito is just a POS. If he were removed from the equation, seems like this wouldn't be an issue.

Ultimately yes, this is his fault and he's a noted piece of trash... but if Martin had hit this point where he was feeling threatened, how hard would it be to pull someone like Philbin or the O-Line coach to the side after one of the incidents and say, "Look man... I truly feel unsafe and this stuff that is going down is why? You may not see it in plain sight, but it's happening and this should be seriously looked into/something may need to be done to handle this." If he did that, and nothing came of it... that that's poor leadership on the team. If he didn't do that maybe he should have, and this thing could possibly have been avoided. Also agreed on the reasons most people are considered soft. It's a ridiculous term thrown around, especially when talking about NFL players.

[wwharton]

Re: NFL Off Topic

I have stopped what I can (I mean, I can't run in and interrupt a promotion ceremony no matter how much I may want to.) I also know people that don't try to stop that stuff, but that stuff doesn't bother them (which, to me is fine. They can think what they want.) I got backlash, but it was very slight from a very few specific sources. Namely the people who say "BUT I WAS HAZED SO I'M GONNA TAKE THE HAZING A STEP FARTHER TO MAKE UP FOR WHAT WAS DONE TO ME." I mean, I didn't go after people that jumped me on my BDays (it only happened twice) because that part wasn't a big deal to me... but I know some of the kids (I joined at 20 and had gone to college, so I was a bit of an oddity in the junior enlisted in the platoons. I was already older than most of my platoon and team/squad leaders when I was new until I got those billets) that were straight from home out of high school were scared to death of it so we did whatever we could to make sure nothing serious happened to them.

I hear you. And again, props to you (very serious about that).

Ultimately yes, this is his fault and he's a noted piece of trash... but if Martin had hit this point where he was feeling threatened, how hard would it be to pull someone like Philbin or the O-Line coach to the side after one of the incidents and say, "Look man... I truly feel unsafe and this stuff that is going down is why? You may not see it in plain sight, but it's happening and this should be seriously looked into/something may need to be done to handle this." If he did that, and nothing came of it... that that's poor leadership on the team. If he didn't do that maybe he should have, and this thing could possibly have been avoided. Also agreed on the reasons most people are considered soft. It's a ridiculous term thrown around, especially when talking about NFL players.

A lot of people don't trust that the powers in charge would do enough to overcome the backlash in the environment they're complaining about. The "Snitches get stitches" crap is annoying, stupid, but very real. Coaching kids, working with inner city kids, mentoring college kids... hell even talking to friends, I guess I've seen far too often what people will deal with to avoid the possibility of the worse case scenario. That's talking in general, but it seems to be true no matter what the topic. There are definitely many spineless people out there, but I just personally can't put them all under that umbrella.

[cavsfan2]

Re: NFL Off Topic

I've always spoken in harsh tones and been overly critical. It's just who I am. I also know that any situation I've been put in, I've stood up for what I think is right.

If someone doesn't stand up for what they actually believe in... Well, then to me they are either a) lying about "believing in it" when it reality is isn't a big deal to them or b) spineless for not standing up for what they think is right.

I mean, I'm not talking about minor transgressions here in this conversation. Nobody is an angel, nor am I claiming to be... but if something sticks out to me as being just plain wrong, I know what I'm doing in that situation and I fully believe that anyone who truly believes in the opposite would do the same thing.

Maybe it's just how I'm wired and have been raised, but I simply cannot wrap my head around not sticking up for either yourself or what you feel is right. I just don't understand that line of thinking, nor do I think I will ever - having already been put in positions where the easiest thing to do would be to shut up and go on about my day where that's not what I've done (nor seen others do.)

On a completely different level, in relation to what my man Pack posted...

I'm really sick and tired of seeing these kids from more prestigious academic backgrounds (Harvard, Stanford, Duke, etc.) being instantly labelled as soft for being intelligent on and off the field.

So what? The kid is intelligent enough to go to a prestigious university. That doesn't automatically make him a *****. When's the last time Andrew Luck was called soft? He went to Stanford, stayed in school when he could have came out and plays Quarterback. If anyone should be soft it's Andrew Luck, but I don't think anyone in the media would ever say that about him. Stupid ****ing narratives being perpetuated.

Exactly. For some reason intelligence has almost become a bad thing and intellectuals are belittled. What a backwards *** society.

[wwharton]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Exactly. For some reason intelligence has almost become a bad thing and intellectuals are belittled. What a backwards *** society.

Unfortunately, this is nothing new either though.

[KG]

NFL Off Topic

It definitely is the culture but not just in Sports though. Take the Dolphins out of the equation and replace it with Neighborhood or Office and you'll still get the same responses.

Ideally, you'd want people to not be afraid and report any/all wrongdoing right away without having to worry about some type of consequence coming your way, but unfortunately this is something that's gone on even before most of us were even born and probably won't be changing anytime soon.

In the office? No way. That kind of behavior from equals isn't tolerated.

Office culture and locker room culture are completely opposite IMO.


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[XFactah416]

Re: NFL Off Topic

I'm not surprised that Martin didn't say anything to Philbin (if true), since Incognito was a "captain" and what not.

Incognito clearly is missing brain cells since at a certain point, he should know / recognize that Jonathan Martin won't fight back and all he's doing is antagonizing his OWN teammate that he needs on the offensive line to help win football games.

I could only surmise that a real leader or authority figure would've stepped in at a certain point and told Incognito to quit messing with Martin if he can't deal with it. But of course, the problem now with Miami is that if Jonathan Martin ever comes back to play football again, he will be alienated by his teammates from the looks of it.

[DaImmaculateONe]

Re: NFL Off Topic

i wonder if those linemen ever got those jetskis from Tannehill?

[Bmore Irish]

Re: NFL Off Topic

i wonder if those linemen ever got those jetskis from Tannehill?

Well, since he's one of the most sacked QBs in the league, I'd say no, no they didn't. Or maybe Incognito is stupid enough to have put the shakedown on his own quarterback.

I think Tannehill is a solid young QB, but you know guys like Manning, Brees, Brady would never, NEVER, let something like this go down on their line.

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[kingkilla56]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Well, since he's one of the most sacked QBs in the league, I'd say no, no they didn't. Or maybe Incognito is stupid enough to have put the shakedown on his own quarterback.

I think Tannehill is a solid young QB, but you know guys like Manning, Brees, Brady would never, NEVER, let something like this go down on their line.

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Im not following you on this one.

[IlliniM1ke]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Just some speculation from talk radio from here in St. Louis but D'Marco Farr was saying when he played sometimes coaches would see a guy and to team leaders kind of question their toughness and encourage those guys to kind of ride them to try and light a fire (not as maliciously as what is going on in Miami obviously).

Basically what they were saying is they wouldn't be surprised to see something come out that the order came from above in the beginning but then these team leaders escalated it way too far.

I suppose that would be a hazard of having a guy like Incognito as a team leader, hes an idiot.

Obviously may not be the case at all but thought it was an interesting perspective.

[Stu]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Miami Dolphins' coaches asked player Richie Incognito, who was the offensive line's undisputed leader, to toughen up teammate Jonathan Martin after he missed a voluntary workout last spring, at least two sources told the Sun Sentinel.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-dolphins/fl-miami-dolphins-hazing-1106-20131105,0,1628986.story

[Bmore Irish]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Im not following you on this one.

I'm saying they are leaders and this situation would've been nipped in the bud on their team, because an ******* like Incognito doesn't have free roam.

I'm not buying the idea that nobody knew what was going on. Based on comments from players, it seems that they certainly did.

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