NFL Off Topic

[wwharton]

Re: NFL Off Topic

^Cam Newton is way too high on this list.


About the Russell deal, we had this same exact conversation when Flacco was getting paid after winning rings for his franchise. We all said he didnt deserve all that cash. Then ravens fans explained in detail why Flacco deserved that cash simply because the market dictated it. Well here we are again and if Russell can demand 20+ a year, then hes earned it.

I just hope Seattle doesnt pay him because it would buck the trend. Teams are deathly afraid and completely willing to sacrifice a well balanced team all to one positon, then wonder why they fall apart in the playoffs if they make it there. If any team is set to buck that trend, its the Seattle Seahawks. I just doubt they have the bravery to try it.

Not really the same thing at all, actually. Flacco decided to play out his last year and in THAT year he won a SB while putting up a post season performance that's compared to Joe Montana. With THAT, he received less money that Wilson is being offered.

Also, what Ravens fans were explaining was that Flacco's money had a lofty early bonus and the actual contract ballooning like crazy after year three. Personally, I think what the Hawks offered Wilson is about what he should get. He wants more... sounds like a lot more.

[wwharton]

Re: NFL Off Topic

I mean all of these are great points with very valid thoughts behind them. But that's the problem, how does anyone know which of these is really right? A strong case can be made for either side.

Russell isn't the best QB in the league. But how often is the best QB in the league actually the highest paid player? Seems that the new 'highest paid' player is always the next franchise QB that's up for a new deal. Combine that with the rising cap and the money will always skyrocket. Luck's gonna get monstrous money when he signs, but that deal is just gonna get topped by whoever the next QB is a year or two later.

At the same time, Wilson is the best QB that the Seahawks actually have available to them. If they let him walk, they haven't shown that they're the best at judging QB talent. So who are they going to replace him with? As much as people may try to minimize Wilson's contributions to the team, I will again say that I fully believe this team doesn't sniff a Super Bowl without him. The Seahawks are young and talented, but it won't last forever. Can they really afford to spend time trying to draft or sign the right QB and risk wasting this prime window of Super Bowl contention?

Ehh it's somewhere in the middle for me. If the Hawks offered him the most (I'm sure in a creatively structured contract that makes it look like a lot more on paper) I wouldn't be in here criticizing them either. But if they offer him $21mil+ and he's turning it down, it does make me raise an eyebrow.

[coogrfan]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Passing attempts? That's your argument? Not passes competed, completion percentage, TD total, or even TD:INT, but... Passing attempts?

Y'all can keep your Stafford-like garbage time 50 attempts per game and all the L's he has to show for it. Give me efficiency that leads to less turnovers and a higher chance of winning.

Using the previously stated criteria, Wilson would be:

16/17 in completions
8/17 in comp %
13/17 in td passes
46/16 td/int = +30 (by comparison Romo's is 65/19 = +46)


It seems clear to me that the Hawks depend on their running game and their defense to win games, not the qb.

[wco81]

Re: NFL Off Topic

He's worth what the market will bear.

And why are people so stingy with the billions that the NFL makes?

It's the richest league but pays the players the least, especially with non guaranteed contracts in a sport where the chances of serious injuries are much greater.

Paul Allen is loaded too, which makes you wonder about those Seahawks fans trying to raise money to pay Wilson.

The more interesting question is, after they pay Wilson, which they inevitably will (it costs too much to franchise him more than one year), will they lose other key players because of the contract that Wilson and other players got?

[thaima1shu]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Ehh it's somewhere in the middle for me. If the Hawks offered him the most (I'm sure in a creatively structured contract that makes it look like a lot more on paper) I wouldn't be in here criticizing them either. But if they offer him $21mil+ and he's turning it down, it does make me raise an eyebrow.

Evidently Wilson may be backing off the need to be the absolute highest paid player and the holdup is possibly more about the guarantees:

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2015/7/27/9048099/russell-wilson-seahawks-negotiations-fully-guaranteed-money

Wilson has been willing to come down on his demand to be the highest player in the league. In return, however, he's expecting that the guarantee on this deal will come up.

The Seahawks, a month ago, offered [to Wilson] the Carolina Panthers deal that they gave to Cam Newton, which basically guaranteed $54M and was worth $21M per year. What Wilson is expecting at this point in time is to get somewhere above Ndamukong Suh's $60M figure for a guarantee, according to a source that I've talked to, and basically re-set the notion of where a guarantee should be for a quarterback, and for all players, for that matter.

[coogrfan]

Re: NFL Off Topic

He's worth what the market will bear.

And why are people so stingy with the billions that the NFL makes?

It's the richest league but pays the players the least, especially with non guaranteed contracts in a sport where the chances of serious injuries are much greater.

Paul Allen is loaded too, which makes you wonder about those Seahawks fans trying to raise money to pay Wilson.

The more interesting question is, after they pay Wilson, which they inevitably will (it costs too much to franchise him more than one year), will they lose other key players because of the contract that Wilson and other players got?

Short answer: because the Hawks aren't operating in a vacuum. If Seattle overpays Wilson that would have consequences for the salary structure of every team in the league.

[areobee401]

NFL Off Topic

Also, does anyone have a source that suggests teams with high-paid QBs immediately fall out of playoff contention? Because if I remember correctly, most of the teams in the post-season year in & year out have high-paid QBs. Patriots, Packers, Panthers, Ravens, Steelers, Broncos, etc...

Brady is paid far less than market value.

What happened to everyone takes less to stay in Seattle? Isn't that what we've been told?

[redsox4evur]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Brady is paid far less than market value.

Yep market value is something like 23-25 million. He is making 8 million for the next 3 years.

[dsallupinyaarea]

Re: NFL Off Topic

So the only options available to Hawks are : (2) give Wilson whatever amount he asks for; or (2) let him walk? I don't believe Wilson has that much leverage. Or am I wrong in thinking there isn't another team in the league that would make Wilson the highest paid qb in the game?

His leverage is he could play out the next 2 years, pocket 20+ million (a million dollars this year, franchise tag the year after) then hit unrestricted FA (The Seahawks could franchise him again but the cap hit would be untenable).

He'd assume all of the injury risk but if there's any person insulated from injury affecting his value, it's a young QB with his track record.

To answer your other question, yes teams would pay. If he were truly unrestricted and teams could openly bid, he'd make WAY more than 21m.

[wco81]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Also, does anyone have a source that suggests teams with high-paid QBs immediately fall out of playoff contention? Because if I remember correctly, most of the teams in the post-season year in & year out have high-paid QBs. Patriots, Packers, Panthers, Ravens, Steelers, Broncos, etc...

I don't know about immediately but teams which pay a huge portion of their cap to a player, usually a QB, has some difficulties reaching the top:

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...postcount=3019

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: NFL Off Topic

To answer your other question, yes teams would pay. If he were truly unrestricted and teams could openly bid, he'd make WAY more than 21m.

I'm guessing your reasoning for this is because he's young, right?

[jWILL253]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Here's some numbers for you guys: http://www.businessinsider.com/russe...ontract-2015-7

According to Business Insider, Seattle's current offer to Wilson is $21 million per season. Aaron Rodgers makes $22 million per, and is the highest paid QB in football currently.

For context, Rodgers's salary makes up about 17.9% of the cap. His contract was written in a year where the league cap was around $20 million less than what it is now.

If the percentage of the cap Wilson is seeking to take is at least the same as Rodgers's, his hypothetical contract would be around $25 million per.

Wilson is being lowballed by a couple millions.

[dsallupinyaarea]

Re: NFL Off Topic

I'm guessing your reasoning for this is because he's young, right?

A young, unrestricted franchise QB is unprecedented (the only one I can remember was Brees and he had injury history and wasn't this accomplished). Teams would go crazy. Oakland, Cleveland, Buffalo.... A chance to not have to worry about QB anymore... yeah, I think they would go nuts.

[jWILL253]

Re: NFL Off Topic

A young, unrestricted franchise QB is unprecedented (the only one I can remember was Brees and he had injury history and wasn't this accomplished). Teams would go crazy. Oakland, Cleveland, Buffalo.... A chance to not have to worry about QB anymore... yeah, I think they would go nuts.

And to assume otherwise is crazy to me.

Ain't tryin'a see the Hawks become the new Chargers. Pay the man.

[mestevo]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Here's some numbers for you guys: http://www.businessinsider.com/russe...ontract-2015-7

According to Business Insider, Seattle's current offer to Wilson is $21 million per season. Aaron Rodgers makes $22 million per, and is the highest paid QB in football currently.

For context, Rodgers's salary makes up about 17.9% of the cap. His contract was written in a year where the league cap was around $20 million less than what it is now.

If the percentage of the cap Wilson is seeking to take is at least the same as Rodgers's, his hypothetical contract would be around $25 million per.

Wilson is being lowballed by a couple millions.

The low balling is debatable, given he wants value elsewhere (gtd money) but otherwise good post, this is the argument I would have made and have made in the past.