MVP Discussion Thread

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  • roadman
    *ll St*r
    • Aug 2003
    • 26339

    #196
    Re: MVP Discussion Thread

    Originally posted by 13
    But it's not like we didn't realize this last year and it's not some huge revelation that a good QB will make your defense better.
    I disagree with this statement.

    Best QB last year, Aaron Rodgers, and the Packers ranked dead last in defense.

    Just saying, not true all the time.

    Comment

    • iAM-IncReDiBLe-
      Next Miami Great
      • Dec 2008
      • 4285

      #197
      Originally posted by roadman
      I disagree with this statement.

      Best QB last year, Aaron Rodgers, and the Packers ranked dead last in defense.

      Just saying, not true all the time.
      Yea but every Denver fan said this defense was good last year an it only looked bad because Tebow had them on the field all game.

      Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

      Comment

      • roadman
        *ll St*r
        • Aug 2003
        • 26339

        #198
        Re: MVP Discussion Thread

        Originally posted by iAM-IncReDiBLe-
        Yea but every Denver fan said this defense was good last year an it only looked bad because Tebow had them on the field all game.

        Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2
        That's fine, I don't pay much attention to fans of their own team, including myself with the Pack.

        My opinion is that Denver has had a good defense for the past few years, no matter who is/was at QB.

        It's also my opinion that you can't go wrong with any of the top picks for this year and any winner will tell you they'd rather have the ring vs the trophy.

        Comment

        • iAM-IncReDiBLe-
          Next Miami Great
          • Dec 2008
          • 4285

          #199
          Oh I agree with the ring part, but it doesn't hurt to have individual awards showing how good you are.

          Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

          Comment

          • wwharton
            *ll St*r
            • Aug 2002
            • 26949

            #200
            Re: MVP Discussion Thread

            Originally posted by N51_rob
            For me it's Peterson. W/o Harvin, he is seeing 9 in the box just about every play. Peyton Manning gets to change the play based on what he see from the defense. 2 safeties deep, audible to a run. Single high safety audible to a pass. Its much more complicated than that. But the past two weeks I've been watching the All-22 and Peyton is being Peyton. He is doing what he always does, which IMO puts him squarely in the conversation for MVP and I wouldn't be mad if he won. That said, what Peterson is doing is just insane. To be a 2,000 yard back in a passing league where the rules favor throwing the ball over running it....Peterson is my MVP, and to me its not even close.

            That said, whoever win it, will have earned it.
            This is actually how I've come to my feelings on this. If the Vikings finish 10-6 and get in the playoffs and Peterson breaks the record then the award should be his. But if this incredible run only gets his team closer to the real season but still on the outside, he should be OPOY.

            Peyton just being Peyton has gotten a completely new group of 52 to achieve the same regular season success of his old group of 52... expecting 12+ wins a year and on pace for a first round bye in the playoffs, which is all you can ask for in terms of chances at winning a SB.

            The point is to win a SB. The point of the regular season is to put your team in the best position to win the SB. The MVP is awarded with only the regular season in mind.

            Is Peterson more valuable to his team than Peyton? Possibly... maybe even probably. But if we're comparing MVPs of respective teams, I'm going with the one who's contributions have put his team in the best position (and is likely to give them the best chance) to win the SB. When that's a wash we can debate the other things like stats, team around them, etc, etc. A bunch of stats that gets your team to 8 wins is a tailor made OPOY imo.

            Comment

            • LoSoisNiCEx414
              MVP
              • Sep 2010
              • 1162

              #201
              Re: MVP Discussion Thread

              Without AP the Vikings win maybe 2 games. Smh he deserves the award

              Comment

              • wwharton
                *ll St*r
                • Aug 2002
                • 26949

                #202
                Re: MVP Discussion Thread

                Originally posted by LoSoisNiCEx414
                Without AP the Vikings win maybe 2 games. Smh he deserves the award
                This is another argument that's getting kind of tired. Many said without Brady the Pats wouldn't win more than 7 or 8 games and they ended up winning 11. Bottom line is the Vikings had a garbage record last year which means they had an easier schedule so no, chances are they'd win more than 2 or 3 games even without AP. And the bottom line is there is no way of knowing how many games any of these teams would win without (insert player here). How many more games do they win if everyone else stays healthy? He would've never won but Harvin was in MVP talks before he got hurt. It's just silly to say anyone should win MVP bc of a "what if" compared to individual opinions on another player's "what if" scenario.

                Since Peyton and the Broncos are the main comparison going on. If the Broncos played the exact schedule they had last year again with Tebow I'd bet any amount of money they wouldn't win 7 of those 11 games. What does that mean? Absolutely nothing. The facts are that with Peterson playing all world the team is still barely sniffing the playoffs. So while he is the most valuable player on his team, his value still may not get them to even having an opportunity at the goal every team is playing for. You can blame it on the players around him, injury, whatever but it's still the facts. Just like Rodgers case may have been limited by the injuries around him, someone else's chances may have been limited by schedule, or play calling, or whatever. We can only go with the variables we have.

                I'm still wondering where all these Vikings fans were when Jamal Lewis went over 2000 yards. Don't remember any of them fighting this hard for him to win MVP.

                Comment

                • N51_rob
                  Faceuary!
                  • Jul 2003
                  • 14805

                  #203
                  Re: MVP Discussion Thread

                  I think the better argument is that if Peterson had a QB that could keep defenses honest I think he would already be at 2,000 yards. That is the part that is the the biggest what if for me. What if defense weren't able to stack the box play after play. Ponder is averaging 5.9 ypa, while Peterson is averaging 6.3 ypc.
                  Last edited by N51_rob; 12-21-2012, 06:59 PM.
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                  • z Revis
                    Hall Of Fame
                    • Oct 2008
                    • 13639

                    #204
                    Originally posted by N51_rob
                    I think the better argument is that if Peterson had a QB that could keep defenses honest I think he would already be at 2,000 yards. That is the part that is the the biggest what if for me. What if defense weren't able to stack the box play after play. Ponder is averaging 5.9 ypa, while Peterson is averaging 6.3 ypc.
                    You're assuming that the play calling would be unchanged if Minny had a good QB. I doubt it would be.


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                    Comment

                    • Sportsforever
                      NL MVP
                      • Mar 2005
                      • 20368

                      #205
                      Re: MVP Discussion Thread

                      Originally posted by z Revis
                      You're assuming that the play calling would be unchanged if Minny had a good QB. I doubt it would be.


                      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                      It's not like they are handing it off to AP all game though...the guy has had several games this year with fewer than 18 carries. If anything I'd think a QB who is more of a passing threat would open up the run and result in more runs. As it is, I think the Vikes feel they HAVE to throw with 9 in the box just to keep the D honest.
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                      Comment

                      • z Revis
                        Hall Of Fame
                        • Oct 2008
                        • 13639

                        #206
                        Re: MVP Discussion Thread

                        Originally posted by Sportsforever
                        It's not like they are handing it off to AP all game though...the guy has had several games this year with fewer than 18 carries. If anything I'd think a QB who is more of a passing threat would open up the run and result in more runs. As it is, I think the Vikes feel they HAVE to throw with 9 in the box just to keep the D honest.
                        I don't know. You make some good points here. But it's really just a what if scenario. You never really know what will happen.
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                        • wwharton
                          *ll St*r
                          • Aug 2002
                          • 26949

                          #207
                          Re: MVP Discussion Thread

                          Originally posted by N51_rob
                          I think the better argument is that if Peterson had a QB that could keep defenses honest I think he would already be at 2,000 yards. That is the part that is the the biggest what if for me. What if defense weren't able to stack the box play after play. Ponder is averaging 5.9 ypa, while Peterson is averaging 6.3 ypc.
                          It's hard to say because we can't know how many attempts he would get. The cases I can remember off the top of my head of backs flirting with 2000 have come in situations where the passing game was pretty bad (Jamal Lewis, Chris Johnson, etc.). In the passing league we have today, a better QB would probably just mean that AP would be more efficient in less touches.

                          Comment

                          • gopher_guy
                            The Kaptain
                            • Jul 2011
                            • 7389

                            #208
                            Re: MVP Discussion Thread

                            Originally posted by wwharton
                            I'm still wondering where all these Vikings fans were when Jamal Lewis went over 2000 yards. Don't remember any of them fighting this hard for him to win MVP.
                            O rly?? :wink:

                            human (fan) nature to be a homer and pull for your guy to win the MVP. Just like I'm sure tons of Ravens fans were when Lewis ran for 2,000.
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                            • JeriousNorwood
                              Pro
                              • Apr 2009
                              • 570

                              #209
                              Re: MVP Discussion Thread

                              After tonight's game, it's pretty safe to say Matt Ryan has locked up the MVP. No one else is even close.

                              Comment

                              • Bellsprout
                                Hard Times.
                                • Oct 2009
                                • 25652

                                #210
                                Originally posted by JeriousNorwood
                                After tonight's game, it's pretty safe to say Matt Ryan has locked up the MVP. No one else is even close.
                                Plenty of people are even close.
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