MVP Discussion Thread

[BleacherBum2310]

Re: MVP Discussion Thread

If It's "Most Valuable Player". Then Rodgers has to be in play this year.

My Update Ballot would be.

1. Manning
2. Rodgers
3. AP
4. Brady

This year is so close, can't go wrong with any candidate.

[gopher_guy]

Re: MVP Discussion Thread

11 TDs by a RB isn't anything to write home about. I'd actually say it's comparable to 5 for a WR.

AP has 2 guys with more TD's than him. Calvin has 20+ guys with more TD's than him.

[wwharton]

Re: MVP Discussion Thread

Are you sure about that? 11 TDs is usually good for the top 5 RB's in the league while 5 TD's won't even get you in the top 30 at WR.

My main gripe regarding MVP is the fact that people consider it "The" award and thus it isn't really about what the letters stand for... Most Valuable Player. Which is why I hear a lot of arguments for Manning that basically translates to.... "It's not fair/ you shouldn't punish Manning for not being the most valuable player on his team".

Yes you should... because that's the MVP. There isn't a reward for a player making his team a Super Bowl contender and playing outstanding so everyone wants to give them the MVP award. I understand where they are coming from even though I believe rewards should go to people that go two levels beyond outstanding. But when you do that, someone playing two levels beyond outstanding on a worst team and who actually is the MVP doesn't get the reward.

I just feel like instead of picking the most valuable player as the MVP the person picked is instead the one that is "close enough" while having the best record. So why not pick someone that is a little less close but has a better record?

That's why Adrian Peterson is the MVP for me.

You're right. I'd say 11 usually gets a RB in the top 10 though, not necessarily top 5. But 5 TDs is pretty low for a WR.

As for the rest of your post, it doesn't make much sense to me. Who says Manning isn't the most valuable player on his team? More importantly, the point is to win games not pile up stats. If the stats don't translate to wins then they are less valuable. If a player's value isn't tied to wins then there is no need for the Offensive Player of the Year award. I think the problem is people feel like that award is worthless when it's a hell of an accomplishment to win it... maybe as impressive as winning the MVP.

[realtalktruth]

Re: MVP Discussion Thread

You're right. I'd say 11 usually gets a RB in the top 10 though, not necessarily top 5. But 5 TDs is pretty low for a WR.

As for the rest of your post, it doesn't make much sense to me. Who says Manning isn't the most valuable player on his team? More importantly, the point is to win games not pile up stats. If the stats don't translate to wins then they are less valuable. If a player's value isn't tied to wins then there is no need for the Offensive Player of the Year award. I think the problem is people feel like that award is worthless when it's a hell of an accomplishment to win it... maybe as impressive as winning the MVP.

Well yeah... I meant most valuable player and not the "on his team" part. Manning is the most valuable player on his team, but not as much as Peterson. Because Manning has weapons around him and a top 5 defense that can share that load. What does Peterson have?

All I am saying is we should look at the MVP first and the record second in regards to MVP. For Manning you would need to go the opposite route and even then what about guys like J.J. Watt and Matt Ryan?

Offensive Player of the Year does need to be appreciated more, but the reason why people are saying Adrian Peterson is MVP is because he doesn't have the weapons and support around him that other teams have and yet he is carrying his team to a chance at the playoffs. He is the most valuable player in the league.

[24]

Re: MVP Discussion Thread

I think You have to give it to Peyton. 10 straight wins and he's having one hell of a season especially after surgery that might have ended his career.

[jth1331]

Re: MVP Discussion Thread

Man saying 11 TD's by a RB is nothing is ridiculous. That is top 10, top 5 numbers guaranteed every single year pretty much.
But when Cecil Shorts has 2 more receiving TD's than you, I find it hard to gauge that player as OPOY material. Fantastic season yes, but you need the TD's too.

[z Revis]

Re: MVP Discussion Thread

Man saying 11 TD's by a RB is nothing is ridiculous. That is top 10, top 5 numbers guaranteed every single year pretty much.
But when Cecil Shorts has 2 more receiving TD's than you, I find it hard to gauge that player as OPOY material. Fantastic season yes, but you need the TD's too.

Are you really trying to discredit Calvin Johnsons season based on where on the field he caught the ball? Dude could have the 2nd most receptions in a season after next week and already has the most receiving yards in a season(and will likely shatter that next week). If AP wins the MVP Megatron is the OPOY in my opinion.

[wwharton]

Re: MVP Discussion Thread

Well yeah... I meant most valuable player and not the "on his team" part. Manning is the most valuable player on his team, but not as much as Peterson. Because Manning has weapons around him and a top 5 defense that can share that load. What does Peterson have?

All I am saying is we should look at the MVP first and the record second in regards to MVP. For Manning you would need to go the opposite route and even then what about guys like J.J. Watt and Matt Ryan?

Offensive Player of the Year does need to be appreciated more, but the reason why people are saying Adrian Peterson is MVP is because he doesn't have the weapons and support around him that other teams have and yet he is carrying his team to a chance at the playoffs. He is the most valuable player in the league.

It's a flawed argument and you can dig through this thread for more details since it's the exact same one that was already discussed. In short, Manning plays a large roll in how well those players around him are playing... which is partially why it's hard for anyone who isn't a QB to get the award. It's hard for a non-QB to have that kind of effect.

Look at the Vikings game today. They can win with AP playing average and lose with him playing great. It's just the nature of the position. You can't just look at stats to see what Manning does for that team. He's basically running the offense. If he plays average (with stats and bad decisions) the Broncos don't win... period.

And I'll never be convinced that we should ignore a player who has his team in position for a 1st round bye and possibly the top spot in the conference in favor of someone who's team hasn't clinched the last wildcard spot.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: MVP Discussion Thread

Why can't Rodgers win it again? Or in other words, what has he done to NOT win it again?

Not looking for a particular answer or anything, just throwing it out there.

[wwharton]

Re: MVP Discussion Thread

Why can't Rodgers win it again? Or in other words, what has he done to NOT win it again?

Not looking for a particular answer or anything, just throwing it out there.

I would vote for him, Brady or Manning before AP. And in 5 minutes and 30 seconds I think he should have as good a case as anyone.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: MVP Discussion Thread

Honestly, I always thought that unless he somehow topped last year's performance or put up numbers close to it that it would be tough to repeat.

[TRC]

Re: MVP Discussion Thread

To say Manning has weapons around him and that is why his team is winning is missing the point. Manning IS the reason why his receivers have become better players. Thomas and Decker were not considered upper echelon players with Orton and Tebow. Manning is making them better. Thomas was a horrible route runner coming into this season, but Manning has demanded perfection and worked with Thomas to become better. Moreover, you can't discount the fact that Manning is doing this with a completely different team. Other than Tamme and Stokely, Manning had no chemistry with the other 50 players...especially his center. If you argue that you just plug Manning into any team/system and that team will thrive, then you reinforce the point of his value to that team. Not just any player can do that. Manning is dealing with way more variables than AD. That is what makes him MVP over AD.

[Sportsforever]

Re: MVP Discussion Thread

Honestly, I always thought that unless he somehow topped last year's performance or put up numbers close to it that it would be tough to repeat.

I made this argument earlier in the thread. He's a victim of his own success...he hasn't been as good this year as last and because of that a lot of people will write him off.

[jth1331]

Re: MVP Discussion Thread

Why can't Rodgers win it again? Or in other words, what has he done to NOT win it again?

Not looking for a particular answer or anything, just throwing it out there.

Because the Packers were 14-2 last year, he played remarkable, and this year more of the same, to an extent.

The Broncos were 8-8, miracle to get in the playoffs, Peyton Manning comes in, turns the offense into a juggernaut, helping the defense turn the corner into an elite defense, and are currently 12-3 and looking like the best team in the AFC.

Are you really trying to discredit Calvin Johnsons season based on where on the field he caught the ball? Dude could have the 2nd most receptions in a season after next week and already has the most receiving yards in a season(and will likely shatter that next week). If AP wins the MVP Megatron is the OPOY in my opinion.

The point of the game is to score touchdowns, get points. Adrian Peterson has surpassed that over Calvin Johnson. Adrian Peterson without a doubt is the OPOY, and personally it looks like Peyton Manning is clinching is clearing up room for his next MVP trophy.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: MVP Discussion Thread

I made this argument earlier in the thread. He's a victim of his own success...he hasn't been as good this year as last and because of that a lot of people will write him off.

Couldn't agree more and people now expected that to be the standard.

Because the Packers were 14-2 last year, he played remarkable, and this year more of the same, to an extent.

The Broncos were 8-8, miracle to get in the playoffs, Peyton Manning comes in, turns the offense into a juggernaut, helping the defense turn the corner into an elite defense, and are currently 12-3 and looking like the best team in the AFC.

Yeah but is that enough to NOT give it to Rodgers? Or is it moreso because of the fact they went 15-1 last year and he had one of the greatest seasons at the position and now everyone expected him to maintain that level for a second year?

I'm not saying Manning shouldn't win it but moreso did Rodgers do anything or not do anything to lose it in the first place?