Is (Insert Player Here) A Hall of Famer?

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Is (Insert Player Here) A Hall of Famer?

Not to derail the thread but by dirt you mean possibly taking a known drug dealer off the streets or bouncing at his own bars and ensuring drugs and guns didn't make it into his establishments?

Chad Johnson= Hall of very Good, Harrison would be a good player to debate just based of my memory of him.

Among other things I've heard about him. Not that it affects my opinion on him as a Football Player.

[C the Lyte]

Re: Is (Insert Player Here) A Hall of Famer?

No doubt on Urlacher. Besides Ray (who IMO is an all-time great), who was a better MLB for that decade?

[wwharton]

Re: Is (Insert Player Here) A Hall of Famer?

No doubt on Urlacher. Besides Ray (who IMO is an all-time great), who was a better MLB for that decade?

I'm not sure where Willis is considered in terms of the decade or timeframe, but if he qualifies he jumps Urlacher immediately... cut it down from a decade to 5 years or so and he probably jumps Ray too.

[C the Lyte]

Re: Is (Insert Player Here) A Hall of Famer?

He came in halfway through it. Stats over both for first 5 years or so:

Willis more tackles

Urlacher more sacks and ints

Take it for what it's worth. But IMO 5 great years doesn't get you in. A consistent career @ a top level does, IMO.

And for the record, I'd rather have Willis than Urlacher, but to this point Urlacher's body of work is longer and more consistent. Willis just hasn't had the time.

[wwharton]

Re: Is (Insert Player Here) A Hall of Famer?

He came in halfway through it. Stats over both for first 5 years or so:

Willis more tackles

Urlacher more sacks and ints

Take it for what it's worth. But IMO 5 great years doesn't get you in. A consistent career @ a top level does, IMO.

And for the record, I'd rather have Willis than Urlacher, but to this point Urlacher's body of work is longer and more consistent. Willis just hasn't had the time.

In terms of the Hall... Willis' time will come. He doesn't really belong in the discussion right now but he should be the lock that Lewis is right now. But over the span of his career I'd put him at the top of the MLB landscape. I just didn't have the years down so he probably doesn't belong in the discussion of who's above Urlacher in the last decade.

[ImTellinTim]

Re: Is (Insert Player Here) A Hall of Famer?

There were certain years where it was actually a debate that Urlacher was the best MLB in the league. 4-time First Team All Pro. 2005 Defensive Player of the Year. Clearly elite at his position for most of his career. During his whole career the Bears had dismal offenses, yet they won a few division titles and made a Super Bowl with Rex Grossman on the back of Urlacher-quarterbacked defenses. The year he missed due to injury, the Bears defense fell apart. The very next year when he was back they won the division and he was voted to the 7th of his 8 Pro Bowl teams.

His drawback was if a fullback or o-lineman got a block on him he sometimes had trouble shedding it. However, before his knee troubles started, he had incredible sideline to sideline speed and covered the middle of the field in Lovie's Cover 2 like very few at his position could.

He had a couple down years when his back was giving him trouble, missed a year with a major wrist injury, and this past year he was playing on one leg and lost a step. Those things hurt his case a bit.

All in all, he'll get in eventually because he's a Bears middle linebacker who had a great career.

To answer bk's question about Hester. There is certainly a case for him because teams were so deathly afraid at him at points in his career that they would gladly sacrifice many yards of field position to avoid him. With the offenses the Bears had who were unable to consistently move the ball, that was huge and won them games. His return TDs also won the Bears games. One game in Denver comes to mind right away. I don't think he should get in, but he might garner some votes.

[C the Lyte]

Re: Is (Insert Player Here) A Hall of Famer?

To answer bk's question about Hester. There is certainly a case for him because teams were so deathly afraid at him at points in his career that they would gladly sacrifice many yards of field position to avoid him. With the offenses the Bears had who were unable to consistently move the ball, that was huge and won them games. His return TDs also won the Bears games. One game in Denver comes to mind right away. I don't think he should get in, but he might garner some votes.

Great punters neutralized him though...........

[wwharton]

Re: Is (Insert Player Here) A Hall of Famer?

Please don't sidetrack to Hester until/unless the OP throws his name out there.

This thread will get all over the place if we throw out names and have side conversations about them throughout.

OP, you may want to shorten the time between introducing a new player though... posters get antsy.

[bigbob]

Re: Is (Insert Player Here) A Hall of Famer?

I think 24 hours is long enough per player.

[Amoo316]

Re: Is (Insert Player Here) A Hall of Famer?

I don't think there is much debate that Lewis is the best MLB of the last decade. At least I don't see how there can be. Stacking his numbers up against Urlacher from 2000-2012 (taking out 96-99 for Ray just to compare identical time frames, might have been better to compare the first 12 years of Ray, but this is how I did it so...) I think cements Urlachers case to be a HOFer.

Urlacher:
Tackles:1353
Sacks:41.5
Ints:22
FF:12

Lewis
Tackles:1479
Sacks:28.5
Ints:24
FF:17

One could go on to argue that Lewis has played with better defensive lines allowing him more time with less blockers on him, but it's really hard to quantify those things, along with how subjective some of the stats already are when factoring in defensive schemes/pressure/coverage responsibilities...etc.

HoF to me has always been 2 things:

Was there a point in his career he was looked at as one of if not the best in the game? Yes

Did he do it long enough? Yes

I think Urlacher is pretty open and shut to be honest.

[55]

Re: Is (Insert Player Here) A Hall of Famer?

There are four MLB that have played in the last decade that all should get in at some point:

Ray Lewis
Junior Seau
Brian Urlacher
Zach Thomas

[Amoo316]

Re: Is (Insert Player Here) A Hall of Famer?

In terms of the Hall... Willis' time will come. He doesn't really belong in the discussion right now but he should be the lock that Lewis is right now. But over the span of his career I'd put him at the top of the MLB landscape. I just didn't have the years down so he probably doesn't belong in the discussion of who's above Urlacher in the last decade.

Not trying to sidetrack, but I wanted to touch on this while we're comparing the recent MLBs since I'm not sure even 24 hours would be needed to declare Ray Lewis a lock, we might not see MLBs again for a while.

Since I kind of love the stats:

First 6 years:

Lewis:
Tackles:875
Sacks:19.5
Ints:12
FF:3

Urlacher:
Tackles:697
Sacks:32.5
Ints:7
FF:7
* Urlacher only played in 9 games his fifth year

Willis:
Tackles:812
Sacks:17.5
Ints:7
FF:2
*Willis played 13 games in 2011

Purpose: Willis has been dominant and the eye test tells me he's easily more physically gifted then Urlacher and possibly more so then Lewis. That said his numbers stack up to put him in the conversation, but I still don't think he's on Lewis' level production wise. Lewis vs Willis vs Urlacher is an incredible debate, which I think in most minds comes down to Willis vs Lewis. I would still give the edge to Lewis (and I don't honestly like the guy).

All that said for the 6 years Willis has been in the league he has undoubtedly been the best MLB in the game, but if he retired today he's in Terrell Davis category for me. I need to see those numbers at the 10 or 12 year point before putting him in with those guys.

[C the Lyte]

Re: Is (Insert Player Here) A Hall of Famer?

What about pass coverage between the 3? Not something that a traditional MLB is known for, but in this day and age, is a staple in order for them to be a 3 down player.

[Amoo316]

Re: Is (Insert Player Here) A Hall of Famer?

What about pass coverage between the 3? Not something that a traditional MLB is known for, but in this day and age, is a staple in order for them to be a 3 down player.

I think pass coverage is what keeps Urlacher in the conversation when comparing him to Lewis. Urlacher has clearly been better in those departments then any of the three and the pass coverage numbers help prop up the portion of his stats which could be called into question. Looking at him as a total package makes him a lock for me, without the pass coverage numbers it's much more of an open conversation IMO.

[ImTellinTim]

Re: Is (Insert Player Here) A Hall of Famer?

He also caught a 27-yard TD his rookie year