Official Denver Broncos Thread

[Broncos86]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

Good point on Shanny tossing the D coordinator under the bus. No head coach would be fired after just one year, why a defensive coordinator?

And yeah, with all the injuries, I've been questioning our conditioning for a while. That being said, the lack of OTAs and off-season training has bitten a TON of teams this year in the injury department. KC losing Jamaal Charles likely just tanked what hopes they might've had (not to mention my wife's fantasy team). And to be a Colts fan this year must be like watching your puppy get shot in front of you.

[Jonsco28]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

Well...it's official that Dumervil is out for Sunday's game. Jason Hunter is going to get the start. That definitely hurts.

[Jonsco28]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

More of the same from Orton. No doubt this was a game they should have won. Except for the 95 yard TD drive, the defense played really well. They didn't commit very many penalties. Turnover ratio was equal.

I still can't help but hang this on Orton and his continuing inability to make plays when it matters - and I'm talking about throughout the game, not just in the end. The offense is anemic. Orton does not throw the ball down field, which allows the defense to play up all game long. That's one of the reasons that Denver can't run the ball. Orton has to stretch the defense every now and then even if it's for nothing more than to loosen things up.

I know you aren't going to agree with this, Broncos86, but I can't see how Denver can continue to hitch their wagon to this guy. I went into this season hoping Orton would prove me wrong. He hasn't and he won't. It's the same ol' dog and pony show. If Denver had a QB who could make plays, especially when there is nothing there initially, they may very well be 3-0. He's not consistent (at least not in a good way) and he can't come up big when they really need a play from him. I'm even talking about simple things...like keeping a drive alive. They had plenty of chances to put Tennessee away. He had plenty of time to throw today. He was sacked only once. His passer rating? 67.1. His yards per attempt? 4.4 yard per attempt. That's horrible. Hasselbeck nearly doubled both of those totals. He struggled through the game at times, but he made plays when it mattered.

It's going to be a long season. I've said this before and I will say it again...Tebow may not be the answer, but Orton definitely is not. Denver is stuck in nuetral as long as Orton is behind center. At least with Tebow, they can answer some questions. They will not be winning many games this year with Orton as QB. They may not with Tebow either, but at least they will be entertaining to watch, and I'd bet they'd do no worse. I'm sick of watching Orton and the unispired offense he tries to lead.

The Broncos have not won back-to-back games in nearly 2 years. That's absolutely pathetic, not to mention embarrassing.

[Broncos86]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

I think we have to wait until 1 - 4 before Orton gets the axe. If the Broncos don't get it together by then, change something. The defense held the Titans to 4 total yards rushing. That's huge! They made chris Johnson look like an overpaid 3rd string hack. And Hasslebeck got VERY lucky with his throws.

But the offense can't continue to sputter with 3 and outs. There are times where Orton needs to just grow a pair and run for a first down. Move the chains, Kyle! I watch him run and it's like he's afraid to get touched.

[Jonsco28]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

You are right....Orton isn't getting pulled before the bye week, and he most likely will start the the following week against Miami. I am afraid that Fox is stubborn enough to keep Orton in there even when it is obvious that the Broncos are not going anywhere. I hope he will at least give the kid a shot so that they can make an intelligent decision in the offseason.

I was very pleased with how the defense played yesterday. What's so encouraging is that they still aren't at full strength as they were missing three starters in DJ, Champ, and Elvis.

[Jonsco28]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

I saw this and it made me laugh...

[Jonsco28]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

Personally, I can't see Denver winning their next two games. I think what's going to happen is they will be respectable, but still lose. Even at 1-4, it wouldn't surprise me if Fox sticks with Orton going into Miami. Denver could win that game with Orton, and it would no doubt prolong the inevitable.

There is no doubt that the window of opportunity for Orton is closing quickly, but I think the only way he gets pulled prior to Miami is if he is absolutely atrocious against the Pack and SD.

Green Bay is another statement game for Orton. Can he show that he can carry the team and be a leader? I seriously doubt it based on his body of work since putting on a Bronco uniform, but as a Bronco fan, I can't root against him because it goes against everything inside of me. Yes, I think the Broncos need a change, but I will not root against them (or Orton) as a means of getting it.

Thick or thin....the Broncos are my team. W's fix everything, and we just haven't had enough of them.

[wwharton]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

Personally, I can't see Denver winning their next two games. I think what's going to happen is they will be respectable, but still lose. Even at 1-4, it wouldn't surprise me if Fox sticks with Orton going into Miami. Denver could win that game with Orton, and it would no doubt prolong the inevitable.

There is no doubt that the window of opportunity for Orton is closing quickly, but I think the only way he gets pulled prior to Miami is if he is absolutely atrocious against the Pack and SD.

Green Bay is another statement game for Orton. Can he show that he can carry the team and be a leader? I seriously doubt it based on his body of work since putting on a Bronco uniform, but as a Bronco fan, I can't root against him because it goes against everything inside of me. Yes, I think the Broncos need a change, but I will not root against them (or Orton) as a means of getting it.

Thick or thin....the Broncos are my team. W's fix everything, and we just haven't had enough of them.

Was there any QB that would make you think Denver was going to beat Green Bay coming into this season?

[Jonsco28]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

Was there any QB that would make you think Denver was going to beat Green Bay coming into this season?

Maybe Matt Flynn.

Seriously, not on Denver's roster. It's not so much about Denver coming out of Green Bay with a win. That's not going to happen. It's more about whether or not Orton can show some moxy. I just haven't ever seen that from him. He seems almost apathetic and that bothers me as a fan.

[wwharton]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

Maybe Matt Flynn.

Seriously, not on Denver's roster. It's not so much about Denver coming out of Green Bay with a win. That's not going to happen. It's more about whether or not Orton can show some moxy. I just haven't ever seen that from him. He seems almost apathetic and that bothers me as a fan.

But you should put your rational hat on and not kill a guy for his personality. You can evaluate him in game... if he stinks it up, killing him is appropriate. But unfortunately he probably won't. He'll probably play ok but not good enough to get the W. And unfortunately, an L at GB isn't a good gauge on where he should stand going forward. Frustrating of course, but gotta be patient. If they make a change after a loss in GB, it'll likely be for other reasons than Orton not playing well.

[Jonsco28]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

He'll probably play ok but not good enough to get the W.

That right there is exactly the problem. More often than not, that's been the case.

I appreciate where you are coming from, but understand that this isn't something that has just come about. I've been patient for over two years watching Orton, hoping he would be 'the guy'. The reality is that he just isn't. He's had multiple chances to make plays, and he just flat-out doesn't - at least not when it matters. I am not knocking Orton on a personal level. I'm sure he's a great guy. He just hasn't gotten it done as the Broncos QB. If Orton stepped up and started making plays, I'd be on board in a heartbeat, but his body of work suggests that it just isn't meant to be.

Orton is a decent QB, but he is not the future of the Broncos. That's the problem. He's not coming back to Denver next year. Even if Denver wants him back, he will more than likely will sign somewhere else next year just to get out of the Tebow circus. Denver needs to find out what they have in Tebow before the offseason so they can make an intelligent decision.

I don't know how much you watch Bronco games. I am not trying to speculate about you, but to an outsider, Orton may look okay because his stats seem decent enough. The problem is that stats lie sometimes. There is no confidence that Orton can get it done when the game is on the line.

Teams know how to defend Orton. You can put 8 in the box and run blitz all day long. As a result, Denver's run game also suffers. Orton is not mobile in the pocket, and he can't make plays when the pocket collapses. Orton's game is short passes, and that's difficult when everyone is playing up. He also doesn't help himself out by stretching the defense by throwing the ball deep. Do you know how many pass attempts Orton has had over 20 yards this year? Four. FOUR! It's not working.

[wwharton]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

That right there is exactly the problem. More often than not, that's been the case.

I appreciate where you are coming from, but understand that this isn't something that has just come about. I've been patient for over two years watching Orton, hoping he would be 'the guy'. The reality is that he just isn't. He's had multiple chances to make plays, and he just flat-out doesn't - at least not when it matters. I am not knocking Orton on a personal level. I'm sure he's a great guy. He just hasn't gotten it done as the Broncos QB. If Orton stepped up and started making plays, I'd be on board in a heartbeat, but his body of work suggests that it just isn't meant to be.

Orton is a decent QB, but he is not the future of the Broncos. That's the problem. He's not coming back to Denver next year. Even if Denver wants him back, he will more than likely will sign somewhere else next year just to get out of the Tebow circus. Denver needs to find out what they have in Tebow before the offseason so they can make an intelligent decision.

I don't know how much you watch Bronco games. I am not trying to speculate about you, but to an outsider, Orton may look okay because his stats seem decent enough. The problem is that stats lie sometimes. There is no confidence that Orton can get it done when the game is on the line.

Teams know how to defend Orton. You can put 8 in the box and run blitz all day long. As a result, Denver's run game also suffers. Orton is not mobile in the pocket, and he can't make plays when the pocket collapses. Orton's game is short passes, and that's difficult when everyone is playing up. He also doesn't help himself out by stretching the defense by throwing the ball deep. Do you know how many pass attempts Orton has had over 20 yards this year? Four. FOUR! It's not working.

I've been watching Orton since he was on the Bears. And the Broncos have had a lot of issues outside of QB over the last 2 years, but I don't want to rehash discussions we've had in this thread already, but it seems like you just want him gone. You've said as much before but now he's here so I guess I'm suggesting to think as if he's here. Realistically, no matter what happens in this game against GB is going to make a difference (assuming he plays like we both expect). It just seems confusing to me to plan on evaluating him any more based on this game considering that. Proper evaluation can't be made at this point. And honestly, the expectations for this team were low anyway this year so I don't know what good it does pointing the spotlight on him every game anyway. Lets say the Broncos had Bradford, Stafford, Sanchez, Flacco, etc. They'd be better, and they'd be happier that that position is locked down... but the expectations would still be pretty low. Just seems like you're driving yourself crazy focusing on one guy.

I was watching the 30 for 30 about Bartman last night and it's kind of what it reminds me of. All of Chicago wanting to hang the guy for tipping that ball when A)others around him were trying to catch it also, B)The SS made a horrible error after that, C)they gave up 8 runs after that, and D)that was game 6 of a 7 game series... but it was all Bartman's fault.

[Jonsco28]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

The Broncos have had many, many games in which Orton has not come through. That's a simple fact. In 2+ years, I haven't seen anything that gives me any confidence that he can perform when it matters. I have watched him take every one of his snaps in a Bronco uniform. Last week agaisnt Tennesse, most Bronco fans would tell you they didn't think he would lead them down the field to tie or win the game. He never does.

I agree with you on Bartman....but that's different. I see it the other way when it comes to Orton. Nothing is his fault (see chart). He's continually given chances despite his inability to perform with the game on the line. You can't tell me that playing against 8 in the box isn't going to hurt your running game. You can't tell me that going three-and-out over and over isn't going to hurt your defense. If you continually put your defense out on the field because you can't sustain drives, you are going to wear them out. Keep doing this and yes, they are going to allow more yards and points simply because of the number of opportunities. Their defense isn't great, but they are hindered even further by continually trotting them out there because their offense can't stay on the field. Orton is tied these issues.

Believe it or not, I would like Orton to succeed. If Orton succeeds, the Broncos succeed. I don't see that happening. I follow the Broncos religiously, and I am not a fair-weather fan. I know what I see in Orton. He's an average / to slightly above-average QB who has absolutely no mobility. He has no heart, and his leadership skills are lacking. Watch him on the sidelines during a game. He doesn't do anything to coach-up his teammates. Watch one of his post-game interviews. Tell me that's the kind of guy you would want leading your team. He comes across as apathetic.

[wwharton]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

Big difference between "Nothing's his fault" and "Everything isn't his fault"... which is what I'm saying. Hopefully one day the stars on the defense will be healthy and playing together, Moreno will be on the field, the WRs will be healthy and they'll have a much more reasonable match up. Since it's only week 4, I think it's fair to wait for situations closer to that before blaming everything on him.

[Jonsco28]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

I agree - I don't think a change should be made yet. Like I said a few posts ago... he will be the starter for at least the next couple of games and I would not be surprised in the least if Orton remains the starter going into Miami following their bye week, even if they are 1-4. He is at a critical juncture, though.

Regardless of what happens against the Packers, he has to have a solid game against SD at home. If not, it's going to get ugly. Maybe he'll have the game of his life tomorrow and follow it up with a win against SD. The next two weeks will be great measuring sticks for the Broncos on both sides of the ball.