Wie gets cut again

[dales]

Re: Wie gets cut again

Not exactly winning.

Again, I dont have a problem with deserving women trying their hand at the mens tour (like Annika). Wie hasnt proven anything yet.

Agreed completely.

[ComfortablyLomb]

Re: Wie gets cut again

Not exactly winning.

Again, I dont have a problem with deserving women trying their hand at the mens tour (like Annika). Wie hasnt proven anything yet.

So you don't think the men don't want as much publicity as possible for their tour? Publicity from Tiger Woods has made the PGA Tour what it is today and without him there wouldn't be 30+ golfers a year making more than $1 million in earnings every year. The journeymen golfers used to about as poor as they come barely surviving on their tour earnings and now you can't even be guaranteed of keeping your card if you pocket a few hundred thousand a year.

You make it sound like Michelle is taking a spot away from some more deserving (no-name) male golfer who is going to starve because of Sony's decision to give her an exemption at their own tournament. The fact of the matter is that it's beneficial for the tour and the future of golf itself for her to be given a chance there and at whichever other tournaments want her present because she draws ratings and interest and in turn increases revenues from sponsors. The decision to have her present isn't made to taunt your masculinity but rather is taking advantage of the chance to have a women play who clearly has the skill to play in the same field as the men. It's too bad she only finished 2nd three separate times on the LPGA Tour last year because if she had managed to win maybe you would be able to look past that point and see that playing on a level field with the men she post a 68 the other day.

[mike06]

Re: Wie gets cut again

Michelle Wie is an amazing talent, but she will never compete on the pga tour. She has the power to be an average at best distance golfer on the pga tour which isnt saying much. the only way she would be able to compete with that distance is to have an incredible iron and short game which she has shown that she is far from having a good iron and short game and as of now is pretty average.

as for who it was who said that annika could compete on shorter pgs courses i think thats pretty far off base. she may make the cut, but that doesnt mean she is really competing for anything. id say a top 20 would be considered competing with the field.

[mike06]

Re: Wie gets cut again

oh and just for the record im not one of those people who say that women shouldnt be allowed on the pga tour. the sponsors can allow whoever they want on with their special exemptions and thats no problem with me. but i am tired of all this tlak about how shes so good and one day will be great on the pga tour when so far shes proven to be a slightly above average womens golfer which is not even close at all to being a pga tour player

[ComfortablyLomb]

Re: Wie gets cut again

Michelle Wie is an amazing talent, but she will never compete on the pga tour. She has the power to be an average at best distance golfer on the pga tour which isnt saying much. the only way she would be able to compete with that distance is to have an incredible iron and short game which she has shown that she is far from having a good iron and short game and as of now is pretty average.

as for who it was who said that annika could compete on shorter pgs courses i think thats pretty far off base. she may make the cut, but that doesnt mean she is really competing for anything. id say a top 20 would be considered competing with the field.

So should those mid-range tour pros just pack their bags and go home since they'll probably never win anything and just make a few million dollars over the course of their career?

Also, just to restate what seems to be so easily glossed over around here: Michelle Wie posted a 68 on friday. She's 16. She did it under condition equal to those that the men faced that day. After a while it gets awfully hard to look past the facts to get to the rhetoric.

[nkhera1]

Re: Wie gets cut again

Well she does bring popularity to the game whether you like it or not as evident from this thread. If you are a sponsor these are the type of players you want to play at your tournaments.

[dales]

Re: Wie gets cut again

Well she does bring popularity to the game whether you like it or not as evident from this thread. If you are a sponsor these are the type of players you want to play at your tournaments.

I didn't watch her take a single shot at this past weeks Sony Open. I haven't watched her play in a tournament since her first exemption to the Sony. She doesn't interest me as a golfer. I am no more likely to follow a tournament because she is playing in it.

[ComfortablyLomb]

Re: Wie gets cut again

I didn't watch her take a single shot at this past weeks Sony Open. I haven't watched her play in a tournament since her first exemption to the Sony. She doesn't interest me as a golfer. I am no more likely to follow a tournament because she is playing in it.

It's a good thing that your opinion doesn't speak for so many other golf fans and tour officials because otherwise Michelle might not have gotten a chance to post that 68 on friday!

[dales]

Re: Wie gets cut again

It's a good thing that your opinion doesn't speak for so many other golf fans and tour officials because otherwise Michelle might not have gotten a chance to post that 68 on friday!

Wow a 68. It's a par 70. It's her home course. She shouldn't have any trouble shooting a 68 there. And since so many other golf fans and tour officials don't share my opinion, she didn't have any trouble shooting a 79 on Thursday, either.

[ComfortablyLomb]

Re: Wie gets cut again

Wow a 68. It's a par 70. It's her home course. She shouldn't have any trouble shooting a 68 there. And since so many other golf fans and tour officials don't share my opinion, she didn't have any trouble shooting a 79 on Thursday, either.

Her home course isn't often doctored up to tour condition with severely lengthened rough and lightning fast greens. In fact, she seemed to be overpowering putts all over the place when I was watching which indicates to me at least that any advantage she had because of her familiarity with the course was muted by the abnormal conditions. Home course advantage is overrated anyway - maybe it will keep a golfer from making a stupid mistake at some point that someone unfamiliar with the track might make otherwise but we're talking about Wailea here and not Pinehurst. It's pretty straightforward. Remember, it's a resort course and as such it is set up for the average vacationing golfer to have a good time while playing on it. But as such a knowledgeable golf fan I'm sure you already thought about all of this when you formed your opinion.

[dales]

Re: Wie gets cut again

Her home course isn't often doctored up to tour condition with severely lengthened rough and lightning fast greens. In fact, she seemed to be overpowering putts all over the place when I was watching which indicates to me at least that any advantage she had because of her familiarity with the course was muted by the abnormal conditions. Home course advantage is overrated anyway - maybe it will keep a golfer from making a stupid mistake at some point that someone unfamiliar with the track might make otherwise but we're talking about Wailea here and not Pinehurst. It's pretty straightforward. Remember, it's a resort course and as such it is set up for the average vacationing golfer to have a good time while playing on it. But as such a knowledgeable golf fan I'm sure you already thought about all of this when you formed your opinion.

Yes, I did think about all those factors. Waialae is not a tough golf course which is why the winner was -19. And abnormal conditions? What exactly is abnormal about a course that is setup for a tour event? If you want to play on the PGA Tour you better expect it to be a tougher 18 than any other course you might play. And you can't use those conditions for her overpowering putts as you say. I'm sure she played in practice rounds and got a feel for the way the course was playing.

And, as you said, the course is straightforward. Since it's her home course and knows it quite well, I'm sure, from playing it all the time, I think a reasonable question to ask would be why did she shoot a 79 in the opening round? Is it really because there were some differences between the regular resort setup and the tour setup?

[Dallasin2K3]

Re: Wie gets cut again

I agree with Dales here.

The fact of the matter is that the only reason Wie played in this event is because she is a 16 year old girl. Make that same-exact, low-distance, average iron, shaky putting player a 25 year old guy, and there's no way we'd see him in that tournament.

Wie is really not very good compared to an average PGA pro. Maybe someday, she will be very good. Now, she isn't. But as I said earlier, it is about the novelty of having a 16 year-old girl playing in a men's PGA event. Having her play in the event, although embarassing and accomplishing nothing for women's golf, got people to talk about the Sony Open. That's it. Based on talent, she really has no business there - but that's not what it's about, is it?

[ComfortablyLomb]

Re: Wie gets cut again

Yes, I did think about all those factors. Waialae is not a tough golf course which is why the winner was -19. And abnormal conditions? What exactly is abnormal about a course that is setup for a tour event? If you want to play on the PGA Tour you better expect it to be a tougher 18 than any other course you might play. And you can't use those conditions for her overpowering putts as you say. I'm sure she played in practice rounds and got a feel for the way the course was playing.

And, as you said, the course is straightforward. Since it's her home course and knows it quite well, I'm sure, from playing it all the time, I think a reasonable question to ask would be why did she shoot a 79 in the opening round? Is it really because there were some differences between the regular resort setup and the tour setup?

When you watch someone overpower every putt by a few feet you have to think that they're thrown for a loop by the course not playing like their familiar with. It's much easier to have a bad day and shoot a 79 than it is to have a good day and shoot a 68. Who knows what screwed her up on Thursday be it the greens, a couple of bad lies, or maybe even her nerves. But that 68 on friday is a very good indicator that she is for real and does in fact have the talent to be out there in limited doses. At some point she is going to explode for a few consecutive low scores and shove it down some people's throats but for the time being I guess we're just going to have to hear the same complaints about her 79 while completely ignoring the 68 the day after.

Make that same-exact, low-distance, average iron, shaky putting player a 25 year old guy, and there's no way we'd see him in that tournament.

She's neither low distance nor a shaky putter. She was averaging 280+ off the tee and is capable of blasting the ball 300+ on good days. Ask Fred Funk and his 260-270 average off the tee what it is to be low-distance. Her putting is solid on the average and by no means "shaky".

[Dallasin2K3]

Re: Wie gets cut again

But that 68 on friday is a very good indicator that she is for real and does in fact have the talent to be out there in limited doses. At some point she is going to explode for a few consecutive low scores and shove it down some people's throats but for the time being I guess we're just going to have to hear the same complaints about her 79 while completely ignoring the 68 the day after.

We ignore the 68 because it didn't matter. Anyone can go out with zero pressure, with no hope of making the cut or doing anything significant, and shoot a 68. I don't care what you do when it doesn't matter - she stunk when it meant something.

She's neither low distance nor a shaky putter. She was averaging 280+ off the tee and is capable of blasting the ball 300+ on good days.

There are a lot of people that can hit the ball 300+. I can hit the ball 300+. The question is - can you hit it 300+ and keep it in play? I think she showed everyone (including her agent, who she nearly hit) that she has some control issues.

Ask Fred Funk and his 260-270 average off the tee what it is to be low-distance.

You're right. Funk doesn't hit the ball very far. Neither did Loren Roberts back in the day - there are a few guys like that. The difference between these guys and Wie is that they are impeccable iron players and incredible putters. Neither of which can be said for Wie.

Her putting is solid on the average and by no means "shaky".

Three double bogeys and two three putts. I COULD GO OUT THERE AND THREE PUTT. Solid putters do not three putt.

[ComfortablyLomb]

Re: Wie gets cut again

We ignore the 68 because it didn't matter. Anyone can go out with zero pressure, with no hope of making the cut or doing anything significant, and shoot a 68. I don't care what you do when it doesn't matter - she stunk when it meant something.

Worthless speculation based entirely on personal opinion over whether or not she had any pressure on her shoulders. I say she had more since it would have been a total embarrassment if she played poorly. But this is just more worthless speculation.

There are a lot of people that can hit the ball 300+. I can hit the ball 300+. The question is - can you hit it 300+ and keep it in play? I think she showed everyone (including her agent, who she nearly hit) that she has some control issues.

Tiger has major control issues off the tee. Everyone who hits the ball that far has control issues because with that sort of clubhead speed the slightest swing flaw creates exponentially greater misses. Should Tiger be playing on tour if he has a tendency to block balls right and way off line?

You're right. Funk doesn't hit the ball very far. Neither did Loren Roberts back in the day - there are a few guys like that. The difference between these guys and Wie is that they are impeccable iron players and incredible putters. Neither of which can be said for Wie.

And yet with Michelle's purported lousy game she managed to post a 68 on friday. Clearly she's not capable.

Three double bogeys and two three putts. I COULD GO OUT THERE AND THREE PUTT. Solid putters do not three putt.

Everyone three putts. Even the current greatest putter in the world, Tiger Woods. Putting at this level is just a question of how much better one is at draining 7-15 footers than the next guy.