Our RalliSport Challenge 2 Review

[Erv]

Re: Our RalliSport Challenge 2 Review

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Mud said:
"First off all you took your comparision too far. He never said he hated all arcade games. If you read the review he liked PGR2 a lot more than this because you had to use some kind of rational with the driving model."

Wrong. He said PGR2 has a more realistic driving model, especially in terms of throttle control, which for a self-avowed simulation junkie is all that matters.

The fact is, Rallisport 2 has an equally rich driving model, it's just not realistic. But he never reviewed Rallisport 2's driving model, other than to point out how it was not realistic and dismiss it as "mindless".

In fact, one valid criticism of Rallisport 2 is that single player tournaments are far too easy. You can blow through the entire game without ever re-racing a track. What this means is that you can be extremely sloppy, and you never have to learn the driving model. Just hold down the throttle and steer.

However, once you participate in a multiplayer tournament against other humans, you are forced to master Rallisport 2's driving model. No, it is not realistic. It is a "fantasy" driving model, similar in spirit to Daytona USA or Sega Rally, but with a more realistic sense of the vehicle's weight. However, competing against other humans all using this same driving model requires the same level of precision as any other driving game.

If you truly believe Rallisport 2 is "mindless", why not prove it to me in a race?

"Furthermore he gave enough reasons to justify the score."

No he didn't! The game literally has it all -- fantastic graphics, sound, tracks, control, physics, damage model, rumble feedback, Live support, XSN support, etc. -- the only justification given for calling it one of the worst racers on the Xbox (2/5) is that the author doesn't like overly aracady racers. Period. The review is far less about Rallisport 2, per se, and more about the author's preference for simulation. In his own words, he is "confusing real life with what 'Rallisport Challenge 2' tries to be."

His review is ridiculously conflicted and self-contradictory. Any time you have someone saying, "Well, if I was a fan of this type of game, I would give it a this score, but I'm not a fan, so I'll give it this," something is wrong.

"If you took the title of the game and the score away, you're telling me that looks like a 4/5 game?"

You're forgetting to remove the "Oh my God! I just figured out that Rallisport is an arcade game!" crap.

"In other words what you just posted is a waste of space because it's immaterial."

What you just posted is a waste of space, because it's wrong.

"So the only VALID comparison here is Madden and NFL Fever."

No it's not, because NFL Fever is not a world class game in it's own right. Rallisport 2 is. A valid comparison might be Ghost Recon vs Halo. One is realistic, the other is not; both are excellent games.

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You brought this back from the dead? You oculdn't use the PM?

1. No he didn't. He said PGR2 and any other racing game listed there had a driving model that required skill. Two different stories.

1b. The whole first paragraph under gameplay details why it not ONLY isn't realistic, it was poorly thought out. Especially since this was something they should of worked on.

1c. Online play has so many ups and downs it's not going to change the score, especially for a game based on a solitary sport.

2a. GFX - Same as first game
Sound - he said it was good
Tracks - Many are recycled from what I heard
Control, physics, damage model - You have to be kidding me.

You seem to ha ve the misconception that because it is an arcade model, it automatically gets immunity from scrutiny. That's not how it works. The review was as clear as day. I wouldn't be wasting my damn morning doing this if he gave the game a 4.

Show something that is contradictary. Again you are mixing "arcade" with "f;aw".

Oh, so he said it sucked because it was arcade right. Everything else he wrote about the game was nice?

People who play Halo and GR go hand in hand, that is not true with Rallisport/CM or Madden and Fever, hence the TWO scores.

[Klocker]

Re: Our RalliSport Challenge 2 Review

I'm loving this game.


just snagged it on a lark because I really did not like RSC 1.


this game is a blast to play and addictive as hell.

Great visuals and fun, forgiving physics, a decent meun system and pretty good integration with XBL.

[Klocker]

Re: Our RalliSport Challenge 2 Review

I'm loving this game.


just snagged it on a lark because I really did not like RSC 1.


this game is a blast to play and addictive as hell.

Great visuals and fun, forgiving physics, a decent meun system and pretty good integration with XBL.

[pk500]

Re: Our RalliSport Challenge 2 Review

Boys:

I remember there was quite a hubub a couple of months ago when TCrouch reviewed Rallisport Challenge 2 and gave it a score of 2 out of 5. Many OS readers were indignant that Terry could have given this game such a low score after nearly every other reviewer fawned over it.

Well, I finally rented Rallisport Challenge 2, and Terry was right: Rallisport Challenge 2 is not a good game.

If someone had put this in front of me and deleted all of the Microsoft logos, I might have believed it was an EA Sports racing game. It's that watered-down of an attempt at a quasi-sim. (But I'd know right away that it wasn't an EA Xbox game, as the graphics are too good. )

Seriously, this game is an example of arcade-sim purgatory. It's not a blatant arcade rally title like Rally Cross, Sega Rally or Race of Champions, but it sure as hell isn't a rally sim like the Colin McRae series, either. It falls in between, which makes it an utterly dull game to play.

First, the game is hideously easy. I won three- or four-minute stages in the early portions of the career mode by nearly a minute. Nearly a minute in a three- or four-minute stage! And I'm not the reincarnation of Henri Toivonen, either.

I figured maybe I should move up to the Champion level of the Career mode to increase the difficulty. Nope, still winning every stage on the first or second try, often by 10 seconds or more.

The stages are really easy to drive. There are no mega-challenging stages like Colin McRae that really test your driving ability, at least not until the very end of the Career mode, from what I've been told. I didn't play it all the way to the end. Too tedious. The stages are too wide, lack a lot of complexes of tight turns, have too many straights, and there aren't enough roadside objects to hurt the car if you go off road.

The handling model also is suspect. OK, ice racing feels unique. But otherwise, there's not much difference in the grip model for tarmac, gravel or snow. There is a better tactile "feel" of the road in RSC 2 than Colin McRae; too bad every surface feels the same.

This is point-and-shoot rallying, which isn't very fun.

Damage effects are brutal. I have crushed roadside objects with no effect to the car, with damage model on HEAVY! I know this is supposed to be more of an arcade game, but why bother having a damage model if it does nothing?

Finally, the graphics in the original RSC were amazing. Simply the most stunning of any driving game on the Xbox to that time. The graphics in this game are strong, but either other titles have caught up to the brilliance of the original RSC or all of the graphics in the sequel don't look nearly as crisp, and the lighting is much more dull. Plus there's way too much pop-up and draw-in for a game that's supposedly this powerful graphically.

Anyways, Terry caught a ton of sh*t for his review. That's a shame, because his review is spot-on. RSC 2 isn't a very good game at all. Give me either Sega Rally 2 or Colin McRae, and please take this mediocre, middle-of-the-road, watered-down rally sim from me as soon as possible.

Glad it's a rental, that's all I can say!

Now, some may counter by knowing that Terry and I are hardcore sim racers at the core. True. But I think I can speak for Terry in that he and I don't mind arcade racing games. There's nothing wrong at all with popping in a game like Burnout 2 or Midtown Madness 3 and just letting it rip with some friends or against the CPU. No worrying about setups or accuracy -- just an over-the-top good time.

But RSC 2 is a lot like EA Sports' futile attempts at racing games. They try to mix sim and arcade elements together, and it just doesn't work. RSC 2 is too arcade to be a sim and too sim to be a pure arcade game.

Microsoft and DICE shouldn't be ripped too much for this version of RSC 2. There are very few console racing games that aptly blend arcade and sim elements into a compelling package. The Project Gotham series comes to mind as one of the few that have pulled it off.

But RSC 2 doesn't. Not at all. It's incredibly dull to play because it's too easy and unrealistic to be a sim but not nearly over-the-top and laugh- or cringe-inducing enough to be a great arcade racing game like Burnout or Midtown Madness.

I highly recommend those who think RSC 2 is a fine rally game to either rent or buy on the cheap Colin McRae Rally 04. Then you'll see what a real rally game can and should be. CMR 04 is challenging as hell while still being somewhat accessible to newbies in the early stages.

Here's the difference between the two games. I couldn't wait for the stages to end in RSC 2 because it was so easy and so tedious. It was like, "Can we get to the finish already?"

I couldn't wait for the stages to end in CMR 04 because I needed a mental and physical break. It was like, "Man, what a rush!"

Driving some of the tougher stages in CMR 04 with a powerful car can provide three or four of the most tense, gripping minutes you'll have with a console racing game. Really draining at times, yet very, very exhilarating and rewarding. RSC 2 never delivered that feeling for me at all.

Take care,
PK

[pk500]

Re: Our RalliSport Challenge 2 Review

Boys:

I remember there was quite a hubub a couple of months ago when TCrouch reviewed Rallisport Challenge 2 and gave it a score of 2 out of 5. Many OS readers were indignant that Terry could have given this game such a low score after nearly every other reviewer fawned over it.

Well, I finally rented Rallisport Challenge 2, and Terry was right: Rallisport Challenge 2 is not a good game.

If someone had put this in front of me and deleted all of the Microsoft logos, I might have believed it was an EA Sports racing game. It's that watered-down of an attempt at a quasi-sim. (But I'd know right away that it wasn't an EA Xbox game, as the graphics are too good. )

Seriously, this game is an example of arcade-sim purgatory. It's not a blatant arcade rally title like Rally Cross, Sega Rally or Race of Champions, but it sure as hell isn't a rally sim like the Colin McRae series, either. It falls in between, which makes it an utterly dull game to play.

First, the game is hideously easy. I won three- or four-minute stages in the early portions of the career mode by nearly a minute. Nearly a minute in a three- or four-minute stage! And I'm not the reincarnation of Henri Toivonen, either.

I figured maybe I should move up to the Champion level of the Career mode to increase the difficulty. Nope, still winning every stage on the first or second try, often by 10 seconds or more.

The stages are really easy to drive. There are no mega-challenging stages like Colin McRae that really test your driving ability, at least not until the very end of the Career mode, from what I've been told. I didn't play it all the way to the end. Too tedious. The stages are too wide, lack a lot of complexes of tight turns, have too many straights, and there aren't enough roadside objects to hurt the car if you go off road.

The handling model also is suspect. OK, ice racing feels unique. But otherwise, there's not much difference in the grip model for tarmac, gravel or snow. There is a better tactile "feel" of the road in RSC 2 than Colin McRae; too bad every surface feels the same.

This is point-and-shoot rallying, which isn't very fun.

Damage effects are brutal. I have crushed roadside objects with no effect to the car, with damage model on HEAVY! I know this is supposed to be more of an arcade game, but why bother having a damage model if it does nothing?

Finally, the graphics in the original RSC were amazing. Simply the most stunning of any driving game on the Xbox to that time. The graphics in this game are strong, but either other titles have caught up to the brilliance of the original RSC or all of the graphics in the sequel don't look nearly as crisp, and the lighting is much more dull. Plus there's way too much pop-up and draw-in for a game that's supposedly this powerful graphically.

Anyways, Terry caught a ton of sh*t for his review. That's a shame, because his review is spot-on. RSC 2 isn't a very good game at all. Give me either Sega Rally 2 or Colin McRae, and please take this mediocre, middle-of-the-road, watered-down rally sim from me as soon as possible.

Glad it's a rental, that's all I can say!

Now, some may counter by knowing that Terry and I are hardcore sim racers at the core. True. But I think I can speak for Terry in that he and I don't mind arcade racing games. There's nothing wrong at all with popping in a game like Burnout 2 or Midtown Madness 3 and just letting it rip with some friends or against the CPU. No worrying about setups or accuracy -- just an over-the-top good time.

But RSC 2 is a lot like EA Sports' futile attempts at racing games. They try to mix sim and arcade elements together, and it just doesn't work. RSC 2 is too arcade to be a sim and too sim to be a pure arcade game.

Microsoft and DICE shouldn't be ripped too much for this version of RSC 2. There are very few console racing games that aptly blend arcade and sim elements into a compelling package. The Project Gotham series comes to mind as one of the few that have pulled it off.

But RSC 2 doesn't. Not at all. It's incredibly dull to play because it's too easy and unrealistic to be a sim but not nearly over-the-top and laugh- or cringe-inducing enough to be a great arcade racing game like Burnout or Midtown Madness.

I highly recommend those who think RSC 2 is a fine rally game to either rent or buy on the cheap Colin McRae Rally 04. Then you'll see what a real rally game can and should be. CMR 04 is challenging as hell while still being somewhat accessible to newbies in the early stages.

Here's the difference between the two games. I couldn't wait for the stages to end in RSC 2 because it was so easy and so tedious. It was like, "Can we get to the finish already?"

I couldn't wait for the stages to end in CMR 04 because I needed a mental and physical break. It was like, "Man, what a rush!"

Driving some of the tougher stages in CMR 04 with a powerful car can provide three or four of the most tense, gripping minutes you'll have with a console racing game. Really draining at times, yet very, very exhilarating and rewarding. RSC 2 never delivered that feeling for me at all.

Take care,
PK

[pk500]

Re: Our RalliSport Challenge 2 Review

>>>The game literally has it all -- fantastic graphics, sound, tracks, control, physics, damage model, rumble feedback, Live support, XSN support, etc.<<<

Mud:

I assume that you haven't played Colin McRae Rally 04 after reading the above sentence. A point-by-point breakdown:

Graphics: Yes, they're pretty. Prettier than CMR 04. But the original RSC had crisper graphics with more vivid colors and better lighting than RSC 2. Maybe that's a compromise to keep the framerate moving for online play, but RSC looked better than RSC 2! Plus the pop-up and draw-in of RSC 2 is inexcusable for a game that's this powerful graphically.

Sound: The engine sounds are decent. But a techno soundtrack to a racing game? That's a joke. Plus the sounds of the cars on various surfaces aren't nearly as good as WRC for the PS2, which had the best ambient sound of any rally game I've ever played.

Tracks: The stage design in RSC 2 sucks like a Hoover, period. The stages are too open, too fast, too wide and lack enough objects along the road to cripple the cars if you go off-course. There's just not enough complexes of tight or off-camber turns to create any sort of challenge.

Physics: You're kidding, right? This is point-and-shoot rallying. You hardly ever have to use the brake in a lot of stages other than hairpins. Ice racing has unique physics, which is proper, but the physics feel almost identical when driving on tarmac, gravel or snow. That's a joke, even for an arcade game. To its credit, this game does have excellent surface "feel." Too bad that "feel" is almost the same on all surfaces except ice.

Damage model: Huh? The damage model in this game is horrid! I had the damage on Heavy and hit a ton of objects with no effect on my car's handling at all. Sure, the damage might look decent graphically, but it has a laughable effect on the car's performance. Why even bother with a damage model if it's this bad?

Rumble feedback: It's 2004 -- just about every racing game -- hell, every game, period -- has rumble feedback.

Live support, XSN support: True, true.

Take care,
PK

[pk500]

Re: Our RalliSport Challenge 2 Review

>>>The game literally has it all -- fantastic graphics, sound, tracks, control, physics, damage model, rumble feedback, Live support, XSN support, etc.<<<

Mud:

I assume that you haven't played Colin McRae Rally 04 after reading the above sentence. A point-by-point breakdown:

Graphics: Yes, they're pretty. Prettier than CMR 04. But the original RSC had crisper graphics with more vivid colors and better lighting than RSC 2. Maybe that's a compromise to keep the framerate moving for online play, but RSC looked better than RSC 2! Plus the pop-up and draw-in of RSC 2 is inexcusable for a game that's this powerful graphically.

Sound: The engine sounds are decent. But a techno soundtrack to a racing game? That's a joke. Plus the sounds of the cars on various surfaces aren't nearly as good as WRC for the PS2, which had the best ambient sound of any rally game I've ever played.

Tracks: The stage design in RSC 2 sucks like a Hoover, period. The stages are too open, too fast, too wide and lack enough objects along the road to cripple the cars if you go off-course. There's just not enough complexes of tight or off-camber turns to create any sort of challenge.

Physics: You're kidding, right? This is point-and-shoot rallying. You hardly ever have to use the brake in a lot of stages other than hairpins. Ice racing has unique physics, which is proper, but the physics feel almost identical when driving on tarmac, gravel or snow. That's a joke, even for an arcade game. To its credit, this game does have excellent surface "feel." Too bad that "feel" is almost the same on all surfaces except ice.

Damage model: Huh? The damage model in this game is horrid! I had the damage on Heavy and hit a ton of objects with no effect on my car's handling at all. Sure, the damage might look decent graphically, but it has a laughable effect on the car's performance. Why even bother with a damage model if it's this bad?

Rumble feedback: It's 2004 -- just about every racing game -- hell, every game, period -- has rumble feedback.

Live support, XSN support: True, true.

Take care,
PK

[b_assassin]

Re: Our RalliSport Challenge 2 Review

Oh, I had almost forgotten about this thread until pk resurrected it

I didn't read OS' review of RS2, so I can't really rip it or post passionately one way or the other. But I will chime in with my own experience, since I have owned the game since it's release. I played it for the first few days I had it, worked my through the novice and pro level in single player. I also played a few hours on XBL, doing well at first, but then falling victim to those that had unlocked the faster cars. Since those first few days (months ago), I've played RS2 maybe about 5 times (mostly online where I got my butt kicked). That doesn't necessarily make it a bad game, but if I don't feel like playing it very often, then that certainly doesn't make it great in my view. I played PGR2 for the better part of few months before tiring of it, and I still get sucked back in every so often...not happenin with RS2 I don't think. RS2 has great graphics and production values, but once you get past the "wow" phase, the game isn't overwhelmingly fun. So now it sits on my shelf...collecting dust Oh, wait...time to go trade it in

[b_assassin]

Re: Our RalliSport Challenge 2 Review

Oh, I had almost forgotten about this thread until pk resurrected it

I didn't read OS' review of RS2, so I can't really rip it or post passionately one way or the other. But I will chime in with my own experience, since I have owned the game since it's release. I played it for the first few days I had it, worked my through the novice and pro level in single player. I also played a few hours on XBL, doing well at first, but then falling victim to those that had unlocked the faster cars. Since those first few days (months ago), I've played RS2 maybe about 5 times (mostly online where I got my butt kicked). That doesn't necessarily make it a bad game, but if I don't feel like playing it very often, then that certainly doesn't make it great in my view. I played PGR2 for the better part of few months before tiring of it, and I still get sucked back in every so often...not happenin with RS2 I don't think. RS2 has great graphics and production values, but once you get past the "wow" phase, the game isn't overwhelmingly fun. So now it sits on my shelf...collecting dust Oh, wait...time to go trade it in

[pk500]

Re: Our RalliSport Challenge 2 Review

Oh, I had almost forgotten about this thread until pk resurrected it

I didn't read OS' review of RS2, so I can't really rip it or post passionately one way or the other. But I will chime in with my own experience, since I have owned the game since it's release. I played it for the first few days I had it, worked my through the novice and pro level in single player. I also played a few hours on XBL, doing well at first, but then falling victim to those that had unlocked the faster cars. Since those first few days (months ago), I've played RS2 maybe about 5 times (mostly online where I got my butt kicked). That doesn't necessarily make it a bad game, but if I don't feel like playing it very often, then that certainly doesn't make it great in my view. I played PGR2 for the better part of few months before tiring of it, and I still get sucked back in every so often...not happenin with RS2 I don't think. RS2 has great graphics and production values, but once you get past the "wow" phase, the game isn't overwhelmingly fun. So now it sits on my shelf...collecting dust Oh, wait...time to go trade it in

Very well said, Assassin. You boiled down my long-winded post nicely.

Take care,
PK

[pk500]

Re: Our RalliSport Challenge 2 Review

Oh, I had almost forgotten about this thread until pk resurrected it

I didn't read OS' review of RS2, so I can't really rip it or post passionately one way or the other. But I will chime in with my own experience, since I have owned the game since it's release. I played it for the first few days I had it, worked my through the novice and pro level in single player. I also played a few hours on XBL, doing well at first, but then falling victim to those that had unlocked the faster cars. Since those first few days (months ago), I've played RS2 maybe about 5 times (mostly online where I got my butt kicked). That doesn't necessarily make it a bad game, but if I don't feel like playing it very often, then that certainly doesn't make it great in my view. I played PGR2 for the better part of few months before tiring of it, and I still get sucked back in every so often...not happenin with RS2 I don't think. RS2 has great graphics and production values, but once you get past the "wow" phase, the game isn't overwhelmingly fun. So now it sits on my shelf...collecting dust Oh, wait...time to go trade it in

Very well said, Assassin. You boiled down my long-winded post nicely.

Take care,
PK

[scoman]

Re: Our RalliSport Challenge 2 Review

Very well said, Assassin. You boiled down my long-winded post nicely.

Take care,
PK

According to Gamerankings.com,there are over 100,yes 100, video game review sites that give this game a score or 80% or better.So when i saw this game on sale for 15 bucks,i gave it a try,and boy is it great,is it ultra realilistic,no, but the racing and graphics are superb,and is a great party game,that has provided hours of entertainment,to me,my family and friends.All i can say to this reviewer is.chill out and take a broader approach to your reveiws,cuz you dropped the ball on this one.

[scoman]

Re: Our RalliSport Challenge 2 Review

Very well said, Assassin. You boiled down my long-winded post nicely.

Take care,
PK

According to Gamerankings.com,there are over 100,yes 100, video game review sites that give this game a score or 80% or better.So when i saw this game on sale for 15 bucks,i gave it a try,and boy is it great,is it ultra realilistic,no, but the racing and graphics are superb,and is a great party game,that has provided hours of entertainment,to me,my family and friends.All i can say to this reviewer is.chill out and take a broader approach to your reveiws,cuz you dropped the ball on this one.