Top Spin 4 Impressions/Questions Thread

[Smallberries]

Re: Top Spin 4 Impressions/Questions Thread

After enough hours of Top Spin 4, I agree with the New York Times. Career mode is not that exciting for me, would of liked to of seen all the Pros in this mode. I will agree the gameplay is way better then TP3, but I bought the game for online play and am disappointed here also. It seems like how much you play determines your rank(World Tour) instead of skill, add in the fact not being able to connect with opponets and taking the loss(maybe they will fix this) is terrible.

I made level 20 and superstar rank on hard in 4 days, so I have played it enough to know I will be taking it back today and get a good credit at least.

I mostly agree with what you said, although I'm still having a lot of fun with it because of the stellar gameplay. Career mode is pretty lackluster...doesn't seem like much of a step up from TS3. Not terrible but lacking depth and kinda wooden. Still, you say you've made level 20 on hard in four days. I agree, that's too fast to finish a game. But why not give it a go on 'very hard' before trading it in?

[The Bimmer]

Re: Top Spin 4 Impressions/Questions Thread

I mostly agree with what you said, although I'm still having a lot of fun with it because of the stellar gameplay. Career mode is pretty lackluster...doesn't seem like much of a step up from TS3. Not terrible but lacking depth and kinda wooden. Still, you say you've made level 20 on hard in four days. I agree, that's too fast to finish a game. But why not give it a go on 'very hard' before trading it in?

Actually making Legend would complete the game, so I havent really finished it yet. But as we both agree career mode is not that fun so I have no interest to continue. I agree setting it to very hard would make it more of a challenge, but it would not improve the fun factor.

I am most disappointed with online.

[Seymour Scagnetti]

Re: Top Spin 4 Impressions/Questions Thread

I'm not sure what you guys want in a career mode that will make it super exciting for you. You can't compare an individual sport to a team sport game because you're dealing with entire teams and salary caps and where you can trade and sign to your heart's content. And I have yet to play a team sports game where the trades and transactions aren't full of bugs. The same goes for online as well. It's next to impossible to play with strangers and have a sim experience, just the nature of online gaming.

And to compare TS 4 to TS3 in terms of career mode and say it's not much of an upgrade is like saying a BMW is not much of an upgrade from a Kia.

[econoodle]

Re: Top Spin 4 Impressions/Questions Thread

I'm not sure what you guys want in a career mode that will make it super exciting for you. You can't compare an individual sport to a team sport game because you're dealing with entire teams and salary caps and where you can trade and sign to your heart's content. And I have yet to play a team sports game where the trades and transactions aren't full of bugs. The same goes for online as well. It's next to impossible to play with strangers and have a sim experience, just the nature of online gaming.

And to compare TS 4 to TS3 in terms of career mode and say it's not much of an upgrade is like saying a BMW is not much of an upgrade from a Kia.

good points.

i mean what do we want, 4 on 4 in a steel cage?

as long as its fairly long. i am good.

[Smallberries]

Re: Top Spin 4 Impressions/Questions Thread

You can't compare an individual sport to a team sport game because you're dealing with entire teams and salary caps and where you can trade and sign to your heart's content.

Sure you can. You're just cherry picking certain aspects that have no bearing in tennis. However, rookies/retirees, injuries, large stat engine and all-time records are included in almost every authentic sports title to give their career modes more legs, yet 2k neglected to include any of them in this game. It's not rocket science -- make the game more believable and realistic in the career mode, and add some bells and whistles that put it over the top. I liked EA's original slogan: "If it's in the game, it's in the game." 2k Czech should take a lesson from them.

And to compare TS 4 to TS3 in terms of career mode and say it's not much of an upgrade is like saying a BMW is not much of an upgrade from a Kia.

And as for comparing TS4's career mode to TS3's, outside of the new coaching system, they're nearly identical.

1) The AI players don't change AT ALL, which make the rankings pretty stupid. Same stats, same levels, every season. No injuries. How much fun woud it be to play Madden or FIFA or NBA2k if every opposing team remained identical over the course of 5 seasons? So what if they're team sports. The same rules apply: players change/age/get hurt/retire.

2) Several of the tour players don't play a single match all year, while several others play only 2 or 3. That's inexcusable, especially when there's only 80 players to begin with (a joke in itself when talking about a sport sim). How much fun would it be to play NBA2k if the Minnesota Timberwolves and the Atlanta Hawks decided to only play an 8-game schedule while everybody else plays their 80+?

3) The season stats are too limited. No head-to-head kept, no full tournament results. All stuff you come to expect in a good franchise or career mode of a sim sports title.

These issues are carryovers from TS3, so yeah, the career modes are pretty similar.

It's nice that you can look past these things. I really am trying to because of the incredible gameplay, but a good career mode is my main interest. The gameplay, however, gives me hope that the next TS will be incredible in every way.

[CMH]

Re: Top Spin 4 Impressions/Questions Thread

Also, getting to Level 20 doesn't mean you're near the end of the career mode. It shouldn't even take that long to reach, really.

If every pro in the game is a Level 20 then wouldn't it seem obvious that your created player should also become a Level 20 early in their career? Nadal still has years of tennis left to play.

I always though the career mode was geared toward becoming a Legendary player. The level is just a number, a numerical value for where you are as a professional player ability-wise. Now, you have to develop your status in the world.

That's what a tennis career is about, really.

[Seymour Scagnetti]

Re: Top Spin 4 Impressions/Questions Thread

Sure you can. You're just cherry picking certain aspects that have no bearing in tennis. However, rookies/retirees, injuries, large stat engine and all-time records are included in almost every authentic sports title to give their career modes more legs, yet 2k neglected to include any of them in this game. It's not rocket science -- make the game more believable and realistic in the career mode, and add some bells and whistles that put it over the top. I liked EA's original slogan: "If it's in the game, it's in the game." 2k Czech should take a lesson from them.




And as for comparing TS4's career mode to TS3's, outside of the new coaching system, they're nearly identical.

1) The AI players don't change AT ALL, which make the rankings pretty stupid. Same stats, same levels, every season. No injuries. How much fun woud it be to play Madden or FIFA or NBA2k if every opposing team remained identical over the course of 5 seasons? So what if they're team sports. The same rules apply: players change/age/get hurt/retire.

2) Several of the tour players don't play a single match all year, while several others play only 2 or 3. That's inexcusable, especially when there's only 80 players to begin with (a joke in itself when talking about a sport sim). How much fun would it be to play NBA2k if the Minnesota Timberwolves and the Atlanta Hawks decided to only play an 8-game schedule while everybody else plays their 80+?

3) The season stats are too limited. No head-to-head kept, no full tournament results. All stuff you come to expect in a good franchise or career mode of a sim sports title.

These issues are carryovers from TS3, so yeah, the career modes are pretty similar.

It's nice that you can look past these things. I really am trying to because of the incredible gameplay, but a good career mode is my main interest. The gameplay, however, gives me hope that the next TS will be incredible in every way.

The stats engine in TS 3 wasn't even close to what TS 4 offers. You can instantly get complete breakdowns of every player on the tour as well as your own. They even give you % of shot breakdowns. Again you're comparing it to team sports. When was the last time you looked at any tennis stats? Maybe once because that's all i can recall for myself. Tennis is not a sport that you really need extensive stats for.

Head to head stats would be nice but that is incredibly minor and I get the tourney results so I don't know why you don't. As for rookies, why would you really care about tennis rookies, you're not drafting them. It doesn't hold nearly the same weight as the NBA or NFL. It would be a nice touch I guess but a very minor negative. People buy the game so they can play against the most famous players and the top 4 that anyone really cares about are there and some other top 10 ones. Since getting player licences are alot harder in tennis than the NBA it shouldn't be held against them too much because let's be honest can you name 10 current players in the top 20 off the top of your head. I bet you can't but yet you think 80 pros and generic characters is a joke? Why would that be a joke. This isn't TW where all the PGA pros are simply names on a scoresheet. They actually created players from scratch that play really damn good.

As for the players playing the same, Federer has played that way the last 10 years and the other top 3 for about the last 5 years. If you wanna compare it with Madden and NBA2K then the Pats, Steelers and Colts all play pretty much the same the last 5 years and the Lakers, Celts and Spurs in NBA 2K. Are you going to hold it against them because most of thier main players are the same and the team plays that way.

Like a poster said in a sports game like tennis and golf it is more centered on a progression of your created character. With team sports you play as the team, not the same because team sports are much more stat driven.

If you're this picky then you probably won't enjoy the next Top Spin either. While Madden and NBA2k have all these elements the gameplay is still pretty flawed (and really can't compare to TS4) and online is a complete joke for both. The only sports game I frind that has balanced both career mode depth and gameplay successfully the last few years is The Show (and their online sucks too) and pretty much that's it so what you demand for a sports title is an extreme rarity these days.

Most people who play NBA or the Show don't even play most of the games. They sim most of it, make trades, put every all star on thier team and then just play the playoffs. It's almost like a text based game for them.

The TS4 career is incredibly long if you play the realistic mode with good progression steps that really force you to think on how to develop your player because the gameplay is so good it gives you a clear barometer on what your player needs to be to beat the top pros. The gameplay is so top notch that the allure of it is your CAP trying to beat the best players year after year and see how many Slams he can win. If you want it to be realistic then you should be playing 6 game sets and that should take you months to complete unless your playing 12 hours a day, 7 days a week. To me that's a lot more fun than being the Lakers and trading for LeBron and Durant to make an all world team, simming the season and go 82-0 and then complaining about it because the broken sim engine allows you to make these ridiculous trades. I don't find that compelling.

If anybody has come close to completing the career mode then they have been playing 3 game sets and then you can't really complain about depth when you insist on playing with arcade rules.

[Smallberries]

Re: Top Spin 4 Impressions/Questions Thread

The stats engine in TS 3 wasn't even close to what TS 4 offers. blah blah blah.

Wow, dude, you're getting way too wrapped up in this, based on this long little rant which honestly I couldn't even get through. While I would never say "you're wrong," because everyone's opinion is different and they're entitled to it, your energy seems really wasted on trying to disprove or discredit the fair and valid opinions of others. Offer your impressions of what you like and dislike and move on to something more important. After all, this game will not love you back.

I may completely disagree with you on the career mode, as I'm sure many others do, too, including some fair-minded, impartial reviews. That doesn't mean that either of us are wrong. I've offered credible, intelligent, and sound reasons for my less-than-satisfactory experience with the career mode, which are MY impressions. And let's leave it at that.

[gxskillz]

Re: Top Spin 4 Impressions/Questions Thread

does anyone know how to check your online stats? i can't seem to find that option. it seems that when you play 2k open, you can only see how many wins you have and how many points you've earned. is it possible to also check how many games you lost?

[The Visualizer]

Re: Top Spin 4 Impressions/Questions Thread

Ive havent much dabbled in Career Mode yet, but I understand why some people arent happy. What it comes down to is there is probably a way higher percentage of casual tennis fans that play Top Spin 4 than most other sports games so they are more likely to look past the criticisms the vocal minority have levelled.

I myself dont follow the sport closely but know the disappointment with sports games from other sports I am passionate about when they leave out key details (I'm looking at you Madden and Fight Night...). I think those that have problems with the lack of depth and authenticity of the career mode are well within their right to express their displeasure. Top Spin has been the more realistic of the big two tennis games series and coming from 2K Sports which is known for their attention to detail the game should have done a better job catering to fans of the sport. Just because isn't a team sport doesnt mean things should be overlooked.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: Top Spin 4 Impressions/Questions Thread

What kind of stats are you looking for to be in the career mode? I thought the pie charts showing what kind of shots you use and how you score points and head to head records and things like that were pretty in depth and I never see stuff like that in other sports games besides NBA 2K.

[Smallberries]

Re: Top Spin 4 Impressions/Questions Thread

What kind of stats are you looking for to be in the career mode? I thought the pie charts showing what kind of shots you use and how you score points and head to head records and things like that were pretty in depth and I never see stuff like that in other sports games besides NBA 2K.

good question. The pie charts are only for your own player. How about showing those same stats for all of the AI players? Especially since I already have a pretty good idea what MY player already does well or what shot MY player likes to use the most. Oh, that's right, the game doesn't show any of that. Instead, it shows AI wins/losses for the season, outlying in painful detail that some of the players play exactly ZERO matches in a year. Don't believe it? Check it out for yourself. ZERO matches played in a year. Good stuff.

[tcrews]

Re: Top Spin 4 Impressions/Questions Thread

After getting this game a couple nights ago. I finally had a chance yesterday to sit down with it and play. I did a match on Easy, Normal, and then Hard. I found all 3 very, very easy. I didn't give up a single point on either level. I was a little concerned about that at first because I'm not all that knowledgeable about tennis, and I only played Top Spin 1, 2, and 3 for a few weeks combined. Once I set it to very hard, that's where the game began to shine.

I'm a huge fan of games being very, very challenging, but without feeling cheap or scripted. I can definitely say this game fits the bill of a great challenge, minus the classic "cpu always knows what you'll do next" feeling that you get from some games. In my first "real" game, since the other 3 were complete washes. I noticed that the pacing of the matches felt great. Serving has a really solid risk/reward mechanic to it. Seeing players try to smoke a 125mph ace by you, only to fault, then reassess for their second serve, and throw a 90mph top-spin serve at you as their plan b is incredibly realistic.

I'm not great at serving yet, I have the "perfect" timing usually, but I'm not good with directing it. Despite that, in "very hard" difficulty, I have gotten 9 aces in one game, which was rewarding and only leads me to believe that you can become very, very accomplished at being a virtual Roddick.

I went down quickly 2 games to none in my first match, I was Federer, my opponent was Bjorg. I caught up and made it 2-2, only to have him go up 4-2, I then caught up at 4-4, took a lead at 5-4, only to tie at 6-6 and have to play a tiebreak in my first game of substantial difficulty. Before I get into more details, let me just say that despite there being no commentary, something in the games build allows you to feel immersed in the environment. You will feel pressure on crucial points, get pumped when you're finally able to smack a winner down the line, or see a volley you had no chance of winning tipped in your favor because your opponent burned his stamina and has sent a ball sailing past the white lines. There were multiple points where I pumped my fist, let out a breath that I'd been unaware of holding in during the last minute, and in close games, drop my controller and crack my knuckles so that I can retain my dexterity after an excruciatingly long point or game.

Back to the game itself, the tiebreak is flat out awesome. I realize this isn't anything new to the game of tennis, or tennis games. But the overall atmosphere and the feeling of going up, falling behind, and desperately wanting to win out is captured quite well. Despite my struggles in the first set, I wound up winning the tiebreak quite easily, 7-1. After an hour and 15 minutes had flown by, I wound up winning the match. I can honestly say that unlike my favorite team sports games, NBA 2k11, The Show, or even other individual sports games like fight night. Time never seemed to drag on. If I played Fight Night with 3 minute rounds, by round 6 I would more than likely be completely bored.Sometimes if I'm up by 20 in NBA 2k11, and there's 3 (10 minutes for me) quarters left, it seems like such a bore to play through the rest of the game. But for the purposes of achievements, stat tracking, etc, I always have to do it.

With Top Spin 4, I've had multiple matches last over an hour, I've won some and I've lost some, but my focus is always on the matches themselves, and never about how much time is left. The game never feels monotonous. You're as involved in the last point as you are the first, and every single point in between. But, if you don't stay involved and focused on each and every point, the CPU will absolutely capitalize and make you pay. Especially on Very Hard or above, the CPU is always on point, and no matter your lead, is always a threat to come back and beat you down for getting complacent.

This is a game that I believe will stay in my rotation for a long time to come. The sole act of writing this impression has made me skip over a few areas I was planning on writing about, and go play a few matches.

Ultimately, as I battle and grind out each and every point, I'll no doubt smile at the end of the match when I see how much time has elapsed. And that even though I lost many points during the match, this excellent re-creation of tennis has never lost me.

[JBucc]

Re: Top Spin 4 Impressions/Questions Thread

Is there a way to change the rules in career mode? I'm playing full sets which would be fine if I were playing real players, but I'm only level 12 and playing these low level scrubs in minor tournaments with 6 game sets is boring.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: Top Spin 4 Impressions/Questions Thread

Finally decided to take my created player online to the World Tour mode. I got blown out the first time I tried to play a tournament because I was like a level 13 at the time and I was playing a level 20, but now I'm up to level 16 and I gave a tournament another try again. I won the first match against a level 11 kid and then in the final against a level 18 guy that's ranked in the top 30, I was losing 2-1 when all of a sudden he lost connection and had to forfeit so I got the win. I ended up playing one more tournament and won that one, and then started a 3rd tournament, where I had my most competitive match no doubt. It was my level 16 guy against a level 12 guy (but grade 7, meaning he's either played a ton online or has just won almost every match he's played online. For comparison's sake, I'm only grade 2 right now and I'm like 8-4 online). Anyway, he took a 2-0 lead on me the first game and I ended up coming back to make it 3-3 and force a tie breaker. He won the tie breaker rather easily and honestly, the only reason I was even able to force a tiebreaker was because my player is just more skilled. But anyway, 2nd set, same thing happens, he gets up 3-2 and has match point 40-15, and I came back and won the game to force another tie breaker as I was finally starting to figure out his tendencies and I started mixing mine up a lot more. I got 2 aces in the tie breaker and jumped out to a 5-0 lead and won the tie breaker forcing a super tie breaker to decide it. We went back and forth until I finally made it 8-6 with his serve. I was able to get 1 point against his serve so it was 9-7. Then he scored to make it 9-8, but I was able to get the point on my 2nd serve to win it 10-8. Most intense match I've had overall in this game. It was so rewarding when I won.