Re: PlayStation 4 Discussion

[ubernoob]

Re: PlayStation 4 Discussion

Okay, so I should have added a few things but it still stands that it's not degrading source image quality. It's (set dependant) turning off TV post processing.

Cinema mode on TVs/monitors does almost the same thing. They are there to turn off post-processing effects that can introduce artifacting that the original source doesn't have.

Cinema mode is more for the artifacting while game mode is meant to (almost) nullify input lag.

[bigbob]

Re: PlayStation 4 Discussion

So, I'm returning my PS4 because I forgot about the Destiny one coming out. I'm basically screwed with my PS Plus now without having to go through some loopholes since I have it on my PS3 and used my account on this PS4, right?

[spidertour02]

Re: PlayStation 4 Discussion

So, I'm returning my PS4 because I forgot about the Destiny one coming out. I'm basically screwed with my PS Plus now without having to go through some loopholes since I have it on my PS3 and used my account on this PS4, right?

Not at all. You can deactivate your account link to the PS4 (and the PS3, if you use their website).

[VDusen04]

Re: PlayStation 4 Discussion

Drive-by question:

Are there any great deals for the PS4 at the current time? Will deals be popping around around the holidays? To clarify, by deals I am more or less referencing a low price point or an associated gift card or cash back with purchase. I am not really one for bundles, just the product I want for the least amount of money. I am considering making the investment if NBA 2K15 ends up recovering as well as it appears it may after the 2K14 debacle.

Separately, I do not have an HD TV and I have never really had a problem with not having one. A PS4 interests me at the moment but an HD TV does not. Is there any way to use a PS4 on a standard television?

[allBthere]

Re: PlayStation 4 Discussion

Untrue, because DVDs and BRs are either 30 or 60 FPS (30 progressive, 60 interlaced.) They use 2:3 pulldown to achieve that - so while the source *is* 24 FPS, the actual blu-ray isn't.

All the refresh rate does is add in frames that aren't there to make it seem smoother (the "Soap Opera Effect.")



It's a bit different for games and movies, again. On a movie it's... "less" work processing. It can easily read ahead because it's "unchanging." It knows which frames will come in which order, it's set.

For games? It has to add in the frames, but it's not set. What if I want to look left? Well, I hit left on the right stick. It now has to wait to see the frames that will be drawn. This is where the input lag comes in. It waits for the frames to appear, then draws the future frames in once it gets the information - it doesn't have the future information on hand because you are controlling it.

That's literally all the TVs with 120/240Hz are doing. Processing and displaying frames that don't technically exist on the media.



I know for my TV, Game Mode has it's own separate settings so once I switched I had to calibrate it again. Probably different for every TV known to man, though, knowing how these companies work.

If I put clear-motion plus on - yes, and you watch movies looking like it was shot on videotape using a consumer handy cam.

Are you saying that when I have clear-motion set to off that my TV is reverting itself to be 60HZ? My TV, by default is always 'off' clear motion plus, yet you can still put game mode on, so it's not just a matter of turning that off and reverting to '60hz'

I don't think that is the case. The unit "HZ" I also think is misleading. It's like saying that a computer with higher processing power will slow down your games. IT doesn't make sense.

Regarding my game setting; yes it had it's own default, but it's also 'not right' when gaming and moving a character around. In BF4, a bright spot on the screen would affect other areas/colours on the other side (it seemed)

another thing I'm curious about is the first thing you said. If I export a video from my final cut project in 24p as a .mov file - put it on a usb and plug it into my tv - are you saying that it plays it back either at 29.97 or 60i? Also why would a blue-ray limit your video output to 30p or 60i? they can be data disks, games, movies or both - I don't see why a blu-ray disk would HAVE to choose a frame rate. In Europe, regular TV is actually 25p for the most part (or was) So why would I want to watch a movie shot in 24p in 29.97 with drop-down? - why would that even be necessary...

[azdawgpound]

Re: PlayStation 4 Discussion

Drive-by question:

Are there any great deals for the PS4 at the current time? Will deals be popping around around the holidays? To clarify, by deals I am more or less referencing a low price point or an associated gift card or cash back with purchase. I am not really one for bundles, just the product I want for the least amount of money. I am considering making the investment if NBA 2K15 ends up recovering as well as it appears it may after the 2K14 debacle.

Separately, I do not have an HD TV and I have never really had a problem with not having one. A PS4 interests me at the moment but an HD TV does not. Is there any way to use a PS4 on a standard television?

I'm not sure u can.... since the ps4 has only a HDMI input.... unlike the ps4 that had both.... unless they make one those lil box's like the red, white, yellow cords plug into except only hdmi which I haven't seen.


although just looked online and found this

http://www.touchboards.com/smart-avi/v2v-h2v-01s/?utm_source=Bing_Yahoo&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shopping_Campaign

it converts hdmi and u can use the yellow, red, white cables it cost a lot though $245 for that much u could by a hdmi tv lol.

[ubernoob]

Re: PlayStation 4 Discussion

If I put clear-motion plus on - yes, and you watch movies looking like it was shot on videotape using a consumer handy cam.

Are you saying that when I have clear-motion set to off that my TV is reverting itself to be 60HZ? My TV, by default is always 'off' clear motion plus, yet you can still put game mode on, so it's not just a matter of turning that off and reverting to '60hz'

No, it's not reverting itself to 60Hz, it's just not using... fakery... to achieve "120Hz" (I have to put that in quotations because the TV is still refreshing at 120Hz, it's just not interpolating frames to smooth the motion. It'll just flash the frames an extra time.)

I don't think that is the case. The unit "HZ" I also think is misleading. It's like saying that a computer with higher processing power will slow down your games. IT doesn't make sense.

Regarding my game setting; yes it had it's own default, but it's also 'not right' when gaming and moving a character around. In BF4, a bright spot on the screen would affect other areas/colours on the other side (it seemed)

Right, Hz has nothing to do with the processing power of the TV directly. All it's saying is that "We'll flash 60/120/240 pictures before your eye in a second."

Game Mode turns a lot of post-processing off (in addition to clear motion), so it can be understandable that a bright light or something like that will throw off colors on the other side of the screen.

another thing I'm curious about is the first thing you said. If I export a video from my final cut project in 24p as a .mov file - put it on a usb and plug it into my tv - are you saying that it plays it back either at 29.97 or 60i? Also why would a blue-ray limit your video output to 30p or 60i? they can be data disks, games, movies or both - I don't see why a blu-ray disk would HAVE to choose a frame rate. In Europe, regular TV is actually 25p for the most part (or was) So why would I want to watch a movie shot in 24p in 29.97 with drop-down? - why would that even be necessary...

In Europe, TVs are mainly 50Hz or 100Hz instead of the 60/120 we have over here. This is why MS had to release an XBOne fix for UK TVs so it could be forced to output in 50Hz.

As for our TVs... it's really set dependant. If you set your Blu-Ray player to 24p mode (though I believe most will do this automatically?) the TV will still output at 60Hz (using the aforementioned 2:3 pulldown method) or 120Hz (just by repeating the picture 5 times, 'tricking' you into thinking it's running at a native 24.)

Some TVs will accept native 24p, some won't. I haven't been TV shopping for years, so I'm not sure how common it is these days. Hard to say - and that's from a blu-ray perspective. I honestly have no idea about putting something on a USB how that would work out with it. I would think if your TV will output in true 24p, it will do that. Otherwise it would just use frame repetition to achieve the same effect.

My understanding of this could also be all wrong, but this is what I've been told/researched/have been telling over the years. If it is, just tell me I'm wrong and disregard anything I've said.

[Burns11]

Re: PlayStation 4 Discussion

I don't think that is the case. The unit "HZ" I also think is misleading. It's like saying that a computer with higher processing power will slow down your games. IT doesn't make sense.

Hertz is the scientific unit for frequency, so it's cycles per second.

Reason why they use hertz as a unit for refresh instead of time between screen refreshes is tradition. The first TV's were limited by vacuum tubes which required TVs to refresh at a multiple of the utility power frequency (which in the US is 60hz, Europe is 50hz). Since then, it has proliferated down through the standards so that refresh rate is Hz.

[darkknightrises]

Re: PlayStation 4 Discussion

Drive-by question:

Are there any great deals for the PS4 at the current time? Will deals be popping around around the holidays? To clarify, by deals I am more or less referencing a low price point or an associated gift card or cash back with purchase. I am not really one for bundles, just the product I want for the least amount of money. I am considering making the investment if NBA 2K15 ends up recovering as well as it appears it may after the 2K14 debacle.

Separately, I do not have an HD TV and I have never really had a problem with not having one. A PS4 interests me at the moment but an HD TV does not. Is there any way to use a PS4 on a standard television?

Ps4 only has a HDMI thing so I don't think you can plug it in to a standard television. How big is the TV you have? I would say just get an HDTV they have really went down in price. When I got my HDTV in 2007 a 37 inch tv I payed 700 and at the time it was normaly 800 has it was on sale for 100 less then normal. Now you can get a HDTV like the one I have for only like 300 sometimes even 200. Heck if you spend want I spent back in 07 you can get like a 50-55 inch HDTV maybe even 60inch HDTV.

[JMD]

Re: PlayStation 4 Discussion

Drive-by question:

Are there any great deals for the PS4 at the current time? Will deals be popping around around the holidays? To clarify, by deals I am more or less referencing a low price point or an associated gift card or cash back with purchase. I am not really one for bundles, just the product I want for the least amount of money. I am considering making the investment if NBA 2K15 ends up recovering as well as it appears it may after the 2K14 debacle.

Separately, I do not have an HD TV and I have never really had a problem with not having one. A PS4 interests me at the moment but an HD TV does not. Is there any way to use a PS4 on a standard television?

I think you may want to look into getting a low priced monitor at least if you don't want to get a HDTV . I feel it would be a waste to have a PS4 and not be able to see how fantastic the games look in HD. I don't know if it will work on a standard set or not.

[spidertour02]

Re: PlayStation 4 Discussion

Not at all. You can deactivate your account link to the PS4 (and the PS3, if you use their website).

Now that I think about it, I should probably add that the two-console limit is PER SYSTEM, not overall. You can have two Vitas, two PS3s, and two PS4s with your account fully active, not just two total.

[VDusen04]

Re: PlayStation 4 Discussion

I'm not sure u can.... since the ps4 has only a HDMI input.... unlike the ps4 that had both.... unless they make one those lil box's like the red, white, yellow cords plug into except only hdmi which I haven't seen.


although just looked online and found this

http://www.touchboards.com/smart-avi/v2v-h2v-01s/?utm_source=Bing_Yahoo&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shopping_Campaign

it converts hdmi and u can use the yellow, red, white cables it cost a lot though $245 for that much u could by a hdmi tv lol.

Haha, good lord. $245 for a converter?! Yeah, at that point I'd just go with the flatscreen.

Ps4 only has a HDMI thing so I don't think you can plug it in to a standard television. How big is the TV you have? I would say just get an HDTV they have really went down in price. When I got my HDTV in 2007 a 37 inch tv I payed 700 and at the time it was normaly 800 has it was on sale for 100 less then normal. Now you can get a HDTV like the one I have for only like 300 sometimes even 200. Heck if you spend want I spent back in 07 you can get like a 50-55 inch HDTV maybe even 60inch HDTV.

Yeah, I suppose I'll have to weigh things out. Altogether, it's more money than I like to spend. I do not care about having television shows in HD so it feels like I'd be dropping hundreds and hundreds of dollars just to have a crack at NBA 2K15 on next gen. Maybe I'm destined to wait a bit longer.

I think you may want to look into getting a low priced monitor at least if you don't want to get a HDTV . I feel it would be a waste to have a PS4 and not be able to see how fantastic the games look in HD. I don't know if it will work on a standard set or not.

Interesting alternative option I hadn't considered. I decided to do a small bit of research and may have found a $20 converter so maybe I could go that route. I know PS4 looks fantastic in HD, but sometimes money is money.

I appreciate the responses, gentlemen.

[Blzer]

Re: PlayStation 4 Discussion

Haha, good lord. $245 for a converter?! Yeah, at that point I'd just go with the flatscreen.

Hmm, is this the same thing?

http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_i...seq=1&format=2

(looks like maybe no audio on this one)

[darkknightrises]

Re: PlayStation 4 Discussion

Now that I think about it, I should probably add that the two-console limit is PER SYSTEM, not overall. You can have two Vitas, two PS3s, and two PS4s with your account fully active, not just two total.

If you have 2 ps3 activated and one of them brook and got the yellow light of death how do you deactive it? I would like to deactivat the one that brook because you can only have 1 activated for videos and if my second ps3 where to break then I wouldn't have a way to redownload stuff has I would already be at my limit of 2 ps3 activated.

[allBthere]

Re: PlayStation 4 Discussion

No, it's not reverting itself to 60Hz, it's just not using... fakery... to achieve "120Hz" (I have to put that in quotations because the TV is still refreshing at 120Hz, it's just not interpolating frames to smooth the motion. It'll just flash the frames an extra time.)



Right, Hz has nothing to do with the processing power of the TV directly. All it's saying is that "We'll flash 60/120/240 pictures before your eye in a second."

Game Mode turns a lot of post-processing off (in addition to clear motion), so it can be understandable that a bright light or something like that will throw off colors on the other side of the screen.



In Europe, TVs are mainly 50Hz or 100Hz instead of the 60/120 we have over here. This is why MS had to release an XBOne fix for UK TVs so it could be forced to output in 50Hz.

As for our TVs... it's really set dependant. If you set your Blu-Ray player to 24p mode (though I believe most will do this automatically?) the TV will still output at 60Hz (using the aforementioned 2:3 pulldown method) or 120Hz (just by repeating the picture 5 times, 'tricking' you into thinking it's running at a native 24.)

Some TVs will accept native 24p, some won't. I haven't been TV shopping for years, so I'm not sure how common it is these days. Hard to say - and that's from a blu-ray perspective. I honestly have no idea about putting something on a USB how that would work out with it. I would think if your TV will output in true 24p, it will do that. Otherwise it would just use frame repetition to achieve the same effect.

My understanding of this could also be all wrong, but this is what I've been told/researched/have been telling over the years. If it is, just tell me I'm wrong and disregard anything I've said.

not at all, you know more about it than I do obviously - to me it's just out of curiosity, but repeating frames exactly as they are should match the real film effect pretty much exactly when I think about it.

I think the term anyone concerned with in terms of gaming and getting quick responses is input lag above anything else (if they are hardcore fps concerned with being among the best players)

I think clear motion plus si hilarious and so undesirable. I bought a samsung 55 inch thin LED, Boxing Day 2012 hell of a deal for $900. It looks amazing and I'm super happy with it for any application. I just messed with game mode to see if I ended up edging out more 1 on 1 gun fights in bf4, it turns out it seemed marginal at best maybe 1 in 10? probably less than that.

I think the only downside to my TV is that the blacks can get too black, but I don't think it's the panel I think they have a cover for the screen that does this to achieve really deep blacks. It's amazing during day scenes/sports - but time to time on night scenes it crushes them a bit much, but I can over-compensate with the backlight/brightness.

I actually work in TV and film, but there's a limit to my knowledge and what I'm willing to devote knowing inside and out and when it comes to TV's I'm probably know more than average, but def not a guru of any kind.

The poster above with the Hz comment was perfect explanation I appreciate it.