U.S. Dead Last in Healthcare ranking

[dkgojackets]

Re: U.S. Dead Last in Healthcare ranking

I'm saying when you have big variances in performance between inner city kids and other kids, but both go to similarly funded public schools, then yes you can make some generalizations. Heck, often times the inner city schools that are performing worse get more money because they think throwing money at the problem will fix it. Of course it doesn't apply to every inner city student, but there are some major trends.

[jmood88]

Re: U.S. Dead Last in Healthcare ranking

I'm saying when you have big variances in performance between inner city kids and other kids, but both go to similarly funded public schools, then yes you can make some generalizations. Heck, often times the inner city schools that are performing worse get more money because they think throwing money at the problem will fix it. Of course it doesn't apply to every inner city student, but there are some major trends.

When is the last time you've actually been to an inner city school? They don't get anywhere close to the amount of funding or supplies that schools in rich areas get and I've seen that first hand. Can you show me a study or statistics that show that inner city schools get more money than other districts?

[Cebby]

Re: U.S. Dead Last in Healthcare ranking

The question is do you want a company equivalent to the sleaze known as the record industry dealing with your health?

The record companies are considered sleazy because they pocket a ton of money over the actual musician, but can dump said musician anytime they feel.

The best way to demonstrate why products cost more in the US:

The average Pfizer research scientist makes $82,769 a year. The average American pharmaceutical researcher makes $81,108 a year. Those are the people actually doing work and solving the medical problems.

The average American pharmaceutical chemist makes $47,605, roughly 55% of a researcher. Thus, we can clearly see that making pills is not an overly skilled job, while researching them is much more in demand.

[Rocky]

Re: U.S. Dead Last in Healthcare ranking

The record companies are considered sleazy because they pocket a ton of money over the actual musician, but can dump said musician anytime they feel.

The best way to demonstrate why products cost more in the US:

The average Pfizer research scientist makes $82,769 a year. The average American pharmaceutical researcher makes $81,108 a year. Those are the people actually doing work and solving the medical problems.

The average American pharmaceutical chemist makes $47,605, roughly 55% of a researcher. Thus, we can clearly see that making pills is not an overly skilled job, while researching them is much more in demand.

I have a friend who works for Proctor & Gamble. For the revenue that they pull in, paying their developers that much is not alot AT ALL.

The reason the record company analogy works is that there really isn't THAT MUCH going into the making of those products. Alot of it is the promotion, law fees, etc. going into the product to help it sell over the other. It works for many things in a capatalistic society, but without some measure of control, it could ruin a thing like health care.

[Stumbleweed]

Re: U.S. Dead Last in Healthcare ranking

When is the last time you've actually been to an inner city school? They don't get anywhere close to the amount of funding or supplies that schools in rich areas get and I've seen that first hand. Can you show me a study or statistics that show that inner city schools get more money than other districts?

Heh, I see that you're still killin' it in this thread.

Someone needs to watch the 4th season of "The Wire" to get a look at inner-city schools and their unique set of problems. And you have to be crazy to think that they're getting equal funding... Poor areas have less of a tax base to use for schools -- it's pretty simple. then when they under-perform, the Feds cut their funding, leading to more under-performing next year. No Child Left Behind is basically indefensible at this point, now that we have seen the way it works and its effects. Total failure.

[jmood88]

Re: U.S. Dead Last in Healthcare ranking

Heh, I see that you're still killin' it in this thread.

Someone needs to watch the 4th season of "The Wire" to get a look at inner-city schools and their unique set of problems. And you have to be crazy to think that they're getting equal funding... Poor areas have less of a tax base to use for schools -- it's pretty simple. then when they under-perform, the Feds cut their funding, leading to more under-performing next year. No Child Left Behind is basically indefensible at this point, now that we have seen the way it works and its effects. Total failure.

I've gone to very rich schools and some not so well off schools and my dad is a teacher in the New Orleans public school district so I've seen the disparity between rich and poor schools. People want to blame the students and teachers but it's pretty hard to get things done when you're getting old/inadequate equipment and can't go on the trips or offer the same kinds of services as other schools. I live almost right between three different school districts here in Columbus and you can see the difference. The two richer and smaller school districts get all the money they need while in the Columbus Public district because it's so big and because alot of the schools are in poor areas they don't get all the money they need and the money that they do get is so diluted with all the schools that need funding that it doesn't make much of a difference when they are able to pass levies.

[jdros13]

Re: U.S. Dead Last in Healthcare ranking

Heh, I see that you're still killin' it in this thread.

Someone needs to watch the 4th season of "The Wire" to get a look at inner-city schools and their unique set of problems. And you have to be crazy to think that they're getting equal funding... Poor areas have less of a tax base to use for schools -- it's pretty simple. then when they under-perform, the Feds cut their funding, leading to more under-performing next year. No Child Left Behind is basically indefensible at this point, now that we have seen the way it works and its effects. Total failure.

QFT. The residents pay taxes which is the majority of the funding provided to the school districts. If you live in an area where most of the residents make a lot of money, there will be more money for the school. There is some federal funding as well, but we all pay for our local schools here in the US.

Ultimately the individual can overcome whatever public school hand they have been dealt (and some certainly have and prospered), but students in those areas are generally not getting the same facilities, teachers, support or opportunities as those in more affluent communities. That is not the kid's fault...in fact, any kid that can improve their lot in life coming from those situations should be commended for their inner drive, because they have a much tougher hill to climb than most American kids.

[dkgojackets]

Re: U.S. Dead Last in Healthcare ranking

Heh, I see that you're still killin' it in this thread.

Someone needs to watch the 4th season of "The Wire" to get a look at inner-city schools and their unique set of problems. And you have to be crazy to think that they're getting equal funding... Poor areas have less of a tax base to use for schools -- it's pretty simple. then when they under-perform, the Feds cut their funding, leading to more under-performing next year. No Child Left Behind is basically indefensible at this point, now that we have seen the way it works and its effects. Total failure.

Glad you quoted so I could see what that guy posted.



There's always a huge difference in performance between "inner city" kids and kids with money AT THE SAME SCHOOL. Within the school, money goes to the kids who aren't any good so people think they need extra help and more funding, when in actuality they dont give a rats *** about school.

http://www.ncreportcards.org/src/schDetails.jsp?Page=2&pSchCode=466&pLEACode=600&pYear=2006-2007

over 90% of whites pass EOCs. Less than half of blacks. At the same school. If you think that's a funding issue then there's nothing anyone can tell you.

[jmood88]

Re: U.S. Dead Last in Healthcare ranking

So where are you getting your information from? Just because your high school was near an inner city district doesn't mean anything.

[Stumbleweed]

Re: U.S. Dead Last in Healthcare ranking

Yeah, it's really depressing to see what teachers (and students) have to work with in such schools. My high school is a poor, 95%-white school in the mountains and we had hand-me-down band equipment that was barely functional and had been donated by 2 schools previous to ours getting it... but at least we had a band program, most really poor schools don't even have that. It's all because the county as a whole is poor and the tax base wasn't enough to provide adequate funding for the things that the school needed.

Everything from re-districting to parental participation in schooling (PTA meetings, coaching sessions w/students, etc.) can affect the quqality of education that kids receive. And almost without exception, those factors affect poor schools at a disproportionate level. When parents are working long hours for less pay, there is simply less time to work with their children on homework, etc. and then that leads to the students being less-prepared for the similarly-stressed/over-worked teacher who has to try and make up for that lapse with inferior equipment and funding...

It's a tough cycle to break, and it should be up to the government to give extra funding to these schools, not cut their funding because standardized test scores didn't live up to arbitrary standards.

But yeah, keep killin' it in this thread, man... I've agreed with all of your posts so far.

[Cebby]

Re: U.S. Dead Last in Healthcare ranking

Glad you quoted so I could see what that guy posted.

While I'm not overly familiar with the area, I would have to think that there'd be a large difference between Charlotte and the DC, Baltimore, New Orleans, and other cities.

[Stumbleweed]

Re: U.S. Dead Last in Healthcare ranking

QFT. The residents pay taxes which is the majority of the funding provided to the school districts. If you live in an area where most of the residents make a lot of money, there will be more money for the school. There is some federal funding as well, but we all pay for our local schools here in the US.

Ultimately the individual can overcome whatever public school hand they have been dealt (and some certainly have and prospered), but students in those areas are generally not getting the same facilities, teachers, support or opportunities as those in more affluent communities. That is not the kid's fault...in fact, any kid that can improve their lot in life coming from those situations should be commended for their inner drive, because they have a much tougher hill to climb than most American kids.

Yeah, I think you mis-read my post or something, because that's almost exactly what I said. Tax base is the largest reason for schools being poor -- federal funding is nearly the same across-the-board for public schools, so the shortfalls come from the smaller local tax base and less of the other donors who typically contribute to public schools (rich local business-owners, etc.).

And yes, people can sometimes overcome the situation they've been put in, and they certainly should be commended for it. But at the same time, they shouldn't be demeaned and insulted when they fail to move beyond those barriers... which is why NCLB is such a flawed idea -- it punishes those who need help the most.

[dkgojackets]

Re: U.S. Dead Last in Healthcare ranking

While I'm not overly familiar with the area, I would have to think that there'd be a large difference between Charlotte and the DC, Baltimore, New Orleans, and other cities.

Sure there are some differences. But I would be willing to bet anything that in those cities too, white students on average score better than black students on average that go to the same school. If its the same school, you cant make the "we arent getting enough money" argument.

[ESPNdeportes]

Re: U.S. Dead Last in Healthcare ranking

I should of rephrased that to say, Why should "more" money come out of my pocket.

Seriously, Universal Health Care could only work in America if we first completely reworked our entire legal systems liability laws. Its great in theory, but completely impractical.

There is just so many hurdles.

I agree. A hybrid system will probably end up being the solution.

[jdros13]

Re: U.S. Dead Last in Healthcare ranking

Yeah, I think you mis-read my post or something, because that's almost exactly what I said. Tax base is the largest reason for schools being poor -- federal funding is nearly the same across-the-board for public schools, so the shortfalls come from the smaller local tax base and less of the other donors who typically contribute to public schools (rich local business-owners, etc.).

And yes, people can sometimes overcome the situation they've been put in, and they certainly should be commended for it. But at the same time, they shouldn't be demeaned and insulted when they fail to move beyond those barriers... which is why NCLB is such a flawed idea -- it punishes those who need help the most.

That's why I put "QFT" (quoted for truth)....just backing you up brother!