U.S. Dead Last in Healthcare ranking

[jmood88]

Re: U.S. Dead Last in Healthcare ranking

...and having socialized medical programs MEANS that you WON'T get great care.

I never said anything about socialized medicine but taking care of people should not be a for profit venture and it's why so many people end up getting screwed.

[daflyboys]

Re: U.S. Dead Last in Healthcare ranking

I'm not defending corporate hospitals and health care organizations, but let's put some of the cost hikes blame where deserved: managed care and litigation systems.

[SPTO]

Re: U.S. Dead Last in Healthcare ranking

...and having socialized medical programs MEANS that you WON'T get great care.

That's a broad generalization. I've had challenges in my life so I know what i'm talking about when it comes to healthcare here in Canada. Let's put it this way, it isn't the greatest but it isn't chopped liver either. Hell, my eye doctor for many years was world renowned in his field. All doctors are pretty much the same. There are different stresses put on each system.

Let's put it this way, if I was born in the US I don't think I could afford a lot of the things that have helped me in my life today.

[rudyjuly2]

Re: U.S. Dead Last in Healthcare ranking

...and having socialized medical programs MEANS that you WON'T get great care.

You've been listening to too many lobbyists from the drug companies. Socialized programs work and cost far less than the US system. Canada does have some wait time problems but its still far better. A private system does mean great care for the rich and is awful for a great number of people.

People shouldn't make a profit off of cancer or getting sick. I think it is a human right to get healthcare. Too many people confuse it as welfare.

[daflyboys]

Re: U.S. Dead Last in Healthcare ranking

That's a broad generalization. I've had challenges in my life so I know what i'm talking about when it comes to healthcare here in Canada. Let's put it this way, it isn't the greatest but it isn't chopped liver either. Hell, my eye doctor for many years was world renowned in his field. All doctors are pretty much the same. There are different stresses put on each system.

Let's put it this way, if I was born in the US I don't think I could afford a lot of the things that have helped me in my life today.

But, that's just anecdotal information. What are the findings/statistics across the board? And no, I don't listen to lobbyists from drug companies.

[jmood88]

Re: U.S. Dead Last in Healthcare ranking

You've been listening to too many lobbyists from the drug companies. Socialized programs work and cost far less than the US system. Canada does have some wait time problems but its still far better. A private system does mean great care for the rich and is awful for a great number of people.

People shouldn't make a profit off of cancer or getting sick. I think it is a human right to get healthcare. Too many people confuse it as welfare.

And anyone who complains about wait times only existing with "socialized medicine" has obviously not been to a doctor's office anytime recently.

[SPTO]

Re: U.S. Dead Last in Healthcare ranking

But, that's just anecdotal information. What are the findings/statistics across the board? And no, I don't listen to lobbyists from drug companies.

Well here's a study comparing wait times based on socioeconomic status in Canada between 1992-1999. You'll see it's quite equal as opposed to the US where wait times are more or less based on insurance, the amount of money you make and who you know.

(study is in .PDF format)

[rudyjuly2]

Re: U.S. Dead Last in Healthcare ranking

But, that's just anecdotal information. What are the findings/statistics across the board? And no, I don't listen to lobbyists from drug companies.

I think its hard to really compare apples to apples but there are some stats out there.

Preventable death rates

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/politics/story.html?id=4bd42888-8023-49a8-8478-471344c04f7d&k=60977

US spends the most per capita of any country on health care despite the fact that every other country covers ALL of its citizens. (see page 16 of the long Rand report)

http://www.rand.org/pubs/corporate_pubs/2005/RAND_CP484.1.pdf

http://www.workforce.com/section/00/article/25/30/13.html

http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml

[rudyjuly2]

Re: U.S. Dead Last in Healthcare ranking

And anyone who complains about wait times only existing with "socialized medicine" has obviously not been to a doctor's office anytime recently.

I have to wait 45 to 60 minutes for my family doctor which I don't consider bad but Canada's wait times for some procedures like knee replacements and other non emergency/life threatening surgeries has gotten too long. We do need to fix that.

[heitkamp94]

Re: U.S. Dead Last in Healthcare ranking

This isn't as cut and dry as the US doesn't give good healthcare. Factors like immigration, violence, and government support being abused send money to other services, its unfair to compare the US to countries who don't deal with the same issues.

[Nivek]

Re: U.S. Dead Last in Healthcare ranking

This isn't as cut and dry as the US doesn't give good healthcare. Factors like immigration, violence, and government support being abused send money to other services, its unfair to compare the US to countries who don't deal with the same issues.

All the factors you listed off are present in all G8 countries.

[Cebby]

Re: U.S. Dead Last in Healthcare ranking

All the factors you listed off are present in all G8 countries.

Other countries have 15 million people who count against stats, but aren't reflected in the rate? And none of those countries touch our violence.

[Nivek]

Re: U.S. Dead Last in Healthcare ranking

Other countries have 15 million people who count against stats, but aren't reflected in the rate? And none of those countries touch our violence.

So you're basically saying we shouldn't factor in violence based on your own people's stupidity. Great.

[heitkamp94]

Re: U.S. Dead Last in Healthcare ranking

So you're basically saying we shouldn't factor in violence based on your own people's stupidity. Great.

I think he just meant they don't have it on the scale that we do.

[Nivek]

Re: U.S. Dead Last in Healthcare ranking

I think he just meant they don't have it on the scale that we do.

I get that, more people = more morons, but most studies already handicap (pun not intended) the US as it's generally on a per capita scale. Bottom line, there's money to be made in health care in the US, and in my personal opinion, that's wrong. Like a few other posters have said, I'll take a hike on waiting times if I know I'll be getting free health care. Although, technically I pay a hell of a lot more taxes then ya'll, so I guess it balances out. Well, not really..but you get the point.