The Dark Knight Rises

[Money99]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

I can agree with that, but even the most believable movie is out for 2 reasons. 1 the entertainment of the viewer and 2 to make money. Sometimes I think thats where mistakes by the viewer are made, they go in expecting to see something that is real to life and come out disappointed because it was fantasy. I'm not saying this was your case but in many cases it is.

I hear what you're saying.
I guess I was just duped in from the first film. It set a pretty realistic tone that I really really liked.
So when I watched #2, I was bummed because it didn't keep the same standard.

I know Batman has gadgets and I accept that. But in the first film, the gadgets were toned down and somewhat still believable. I can't say that about the 2nd movie.

To each his own. I can't say I wasn't entertained by The Dark Knight, but I still don't think it was as good as the first.

[Kashanova]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

I don't see a reason to introduce Catwoman at all. The first two did fine without sidekicks, why now?

And I don't care if that plane-trick was done once by the CIA. We went to the moon too. Maybe we should see Bats make a BatStation on the Moon and then drive his Bat-Moon Buggy around while looking for Bat Moon Rocks.
Then when anyone complains the Batman fans can say "Hey, NASA went to the moon so it's believable!"

This forum is to give opinions. I gave mine, just like you gave yours.
I didn't jump down anyone's throat for liking Batman #2. That's their prerogative.
Just like it's mine to give my opinion on these new pics.

And believe me, I will definitely be waiting to watch this on BR instead of at the theatre.
I wish I had done that for Batman#2. I was looking at my watch by the 90 minute mark.

I loved the first film. I own it and have probably watched it 20 times.
But to me, the path I'm seeing is getting more and more over the top.
These pictures of Catwoman scare me is all I'm saying.
I just don't see why he needs a sidekick. Especially a female in hotpants.

BTW, Superman hasn't even begun filming. That photo was purposely created for public consumption.

who's to say, catwomen is his sidekick at all? we don't have all the facts, for all we know she probably stole it from batman

[USF11]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

who's to say, catwomen is his sidekick at all? we don't have all the facts, for all we know she probably stole it from batman

I think catwoman will be someone who takes bruces place at somepoint during the film....then is later killed by Bane.

You need to ground the movie in reality, and then reallly put bane over...what better way then to kill a sidekick!

[Kashanova]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Spoiler

btw in the novelization of Batman Begins it states that there was no body at the scene of the wreckage, so it's possible that Ra's is still alive after all

[Fresh Tendrils]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

I'm not going to quote anybody, just reply to the general topic going on.

I understand that this series laid a foundation for a grittier, more realistic Batman that followed the traits of a noire, crime-drama film more-so than an action film like previous films. The key to the formula, is "more realistic." Blzer is Mr. Realism when it comes to this Batman series and I understand completely what he means and everything does seem to be plausible in reality. The fact of the matter is, nothing is remotely plausible or "realistic" about this series when compared to real-world.

Now, with that said I completely think Nolan's Batman universe is more grounded than say the Fantastic Four, but Nolan shouldn't restrain himself to what seems only plausible in our world. This is a series that features criminals parading around in Halloween costumes, fighting a grown-man dressed up as a Bat, Katie Holmes as a ballsy DA, a big whoppin' *** tank-car driving across and jumping from rooftop to rooftop, and a sonic emitter that makes bats comes swooping in. That is Batman Begins. While certainly grounded in some kind of realistically and logically thought out basis, it is still a fantasy. I don't think anything in TDK exceeds those realistic parameters. The sonar is pushing it, but the explanation of the technology is plausible within the universe of the films.

I really don't understand why people preach about expectations concerning "realism" in fantasy films. I don't believe anything in this series is at all outlandish in the context of the series or what Nolan has been building. If things happen that aren't logical or aren't explained sensibly, then to me that is what breaks the realism factor of the movie-universe to me. Not if a rich bitch in Bat suit is sky-hooked out of a building after whooping some Chinese guys asses. Its not like Nolan just pulled that out of Batman's arsenal. He took the time to actually explain the process (and all of the other fantasy elements of the series) in a sensible manner that I found believable.

I'm not understanding the backlash towards Catwoman. She's a great character and it will be interesting to see how her and Batman interact together because those are always great sequences in the comics and cartoons - hell, even Burton did a good job with that relationship while he ****ed up everything else in Batman Returns. I don't see why there's the thought that she's a side-kick simply because she's on the pod-cycle. We don't know why she's on it so details for now are just speculation. For all we know she could actually be a thief and stealing **** from rich people (like she was originally introduced in the comics). I didn't see people raising eyebrows because Bane had a trio of Tumblers rolling down the highway. Plus, hell, we've had two...er one...female lead in this series that has been the definite weak link in the two films. We're getting two strong females characters that not only tie to Bruce Wayne, but Batman as well. I'm more excited for Catwoman and Talia than I am for Bane and Bane looks badass.

I think its obvious that I'm a Batman fan, but I also like to think I know how to judge films. TDKR is not "two steps" away from Batman & Robin and the comparison is just hilarious to me.


Steelers in the movie

[Money99]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Don't even get me started on Bane. I kept my mouth closed on that one too.

I would have much preferred Riddler as a crazy Zodiac Killer Type criminal.
Bane looks ridiculous with his outfit.

Again, I'm not trying to stir trouble just to be a devils advocate. I just don't like how this series is turning into a Saturday morning special.

I ignored some of the ridiculous plot-holes in Dark Knight because they portrayed Joker very well.
But seeing Bane, then Catwoman, I don't know. I'm skeptical. I'll wait to hear how some others feel about it when it releases.
I really hope they're able to morph her character well into the story and make it somewhat believable.

BTW, some people consider Robin to be a great character too but Nolan said he'll never add him. Why Robin but not Catwoman? Both are sort of ridiculous, unbelievable characters.
And I swear if I hear Catwoman kicks Batman's butt, or is shown to be his equal physically, "Check please!".

[jfsolo]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Its kind of funny, because on comic books boards lots of fans are raging out because Catwoman seams too toned down and realistic. It is what it is.

[LionsFanNJ]

Its kind of funny, because on comic books boards lots of fans are raging out because Catwoman seams too toned down and realistic. It is what it is.

Wtf. Those idiots wanted something like Jim Balents take on Catwoman. Gods no. And anyway they're basing Selina off the current (and in my eyes better) take that Brubaker did recently...hypocrisy at its finest hour.

I've learned a while ago that "true" fans of these comic properties are morons who bitch at anything justified or not. I've gotten into arguments about this stuff WAY to many times to count. Though I have been 'that guy' a few times myself. (Deadpool I'm looking at you...)

Rant over.

sent from parts unknown

[Blzer]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Well, here's how I see it (and this is how it is for all hero movies, for that matter). I always kind of have a problem with seeing characters suddenly come on screen and being an overpowering threat, for some unknown reason. Look at what Peter Parker had to do to progress into the Spider-Man that he became. He discovered his powers, practiced web-shooting, went into a cage match, built multiple costumes, and even then he still had slight trouble against small-time criminals. Eventually, he developed into the Spider-Man that we see now. But suddenly, Harry uses some performance enhancers and he toes up right there with Peter after years of experience.

The same kind of goes for, say, Black Widow in Iron Man. Okay, I understand she's had training. But she goes into a place, totally unprotected in armor, and immobilizes a dozen guards within seconds. She finishes in her poses, and comes out of everything without a scratch and with perfect hair. Yes, it's bad-***. Yes, it's hot. But I just don't find that on the grounds of "realism." It's not just because it's a woman, although I would like to heir to the side of sexism and make the claim that it's less likely for a woman to be the overpowering force. The problem is the sheer no-look perfection against multiple combatants. Look at Christian Bale in Equilibrium. He's been trained as well and I get that, but it's just the flawlessness without breaking a sweat that isn't "realistic" on Nolan's level of filmmaking.

So, put these two forms together, and you probably get what Halle Berry was like in Catwoman. I don't think Nolan is going to portray that kind of persona with Selina Kyle, but like... where does she come from in this world? Where was she training? Where did she get her equipment (hell, she can't even glide like Batman without some sort of cape)? How will she take on Bane and the underworld without Kevlar? How is that 130 lb chick expected to match up alongside Batman with ease? Why is she Catwoman? Wayne is Batman to eradicate Gotham's injustices; and he dresses like a bat, a feared mammal, because that was his childhood fear that he is projecting onto his enemies. What experiences has she had in the past? What is her motive, where was her training, and what crime has she fought in the past? Hopefully all of this stuff is easily explained, otherwise I just think it's beyond Nolan's creation of Batman to bring that kind of character onto here.

Now that's not to say that one style of film is better or worse; I prefer certain kinds for certain films. For instance, with Michael Bay directing Transformers, you just know Optimus Prime will start kicking *** when his music plays. I appreciate that for that kind of film. When Nolan does Batman, he gives it a certain appeal that, yes, is somewhat grounded. It's not riddled with CGI, villains of abnormal mutations, and it takes place in a world similar to ours. He did the same with the visuals in Inception (while others thought they should have been more extreme, he made an excuse to make them seem more "real"). This is Nolan's way of doing things, and I just want to make sure he's still on that path of "legitimacy" and "acceptance."

Hell, keep in mind the characters with alter egos aren't even called by their nicknames. Bruce Wayne in costume isn't called "Batman," he's called "the bat man." When Harvey Dent was burned, he was only referred to as "Harvey Two-Face" when Gordon was telling him a name they gave him at IA. The only person given this kind of name was The Joker, because that was the only name he had.

While a guy running around like a bat must be really goofballish, at least he's proven his ground. This would seem kind of like was Brian Douglas and others were doing in The Dark Knight, being copycats. Now, it's Anne Hathaway's turn in a catsuit. I would expect a scene where the Gotham units all look at each other, laughing, saying, "What, does she want to be called Catwoman?" I just don't know how well this would fly.

I trust Nolan completely. I'm sure he won't muff it up, and I'm sure this is the best route he could absolutely go, and I'm willing to bet he'll go on this route splendidly. I just can't see this going well from the outside looking in. I'm hoping for the best though, obviously. Like I said, Nolan never wanted Robin. My friend once explained to me a great way that Robin could work, well outside my own creations of making it work myself. I would have accepted the way that he said. I'm sure Nolan and co. has found a great way to make Selina Kyle/Catwoman work with this film. I'm hoping for the best, but as of now I just don't see how it fits with what Nolan has given us so far. I hope to be proven 100% wrong on that.


EDIT: Keep in mind I have not yet seen any TDKR shots of Anne Hathaway as Catwoman. I'm trying to keep that on the table until I am forced to see them.

[jmood88]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Easy answer to your questions: wait for the movie to actually come out.

[Blzer]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Easy answer to your questions: wait for the movie to actually come out.

Just 347 more days to go!

[Fresh Tendrils]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

I wish people would stop bringing up Spiderman 3. That movie was a travesty and its inability to develop characters and their respective plotlines outside of Parker and MJ was just one of the many problems (but the core problem).

I think Nolan has proved it with everything he has done regarding this series to be trusted with the characters he brings in. He doesn't undercut the development of his characters nor portray Bats or any of his characters as flawless and invulnerable (well, maybe Gordon). The obsession with a fully monologued back story is too easy and uncreative to me. I like how Nolan has fleshed out character histories by leaving little tracings back to through their past to their beginning. He adequately gives the character a sense of existence before appearing on screen even without showing their past. I'm sure Catwoman and Bane will be done the same way.

As for Catwoman, I don't get why people opposed to having a woman (finally) actually being able to challenge (or help, whichever the case may be) Batman. I don't want another Rachel. She was a weak character to me. She lacked an air of authority. Her threats had no real conviction. The title of DA wore on her like an XL shirt on a toddler. In the end, Rachel never seemed more than a little girl. As such, she was a burden and a chore. If Catwoman (or Talia for that matter) comes in and doesn't try to challenge Bruce/Batman and doesn't try to at least be his equal, then its just Rachel all over again. If Selina doesn't, then she can't be a true threat nor an actual advantage for Batman, thus making her character rather pointless (again, Rachel 2.0) and not at all interesting. People should be expecting this out of Catwoman and be pissed off if it doesn't happen. Why should she slide beside Batman's side and not try to make a bigger shadow?

[Blzer]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

I wish people would stop bringing up Spiderman 3. That movie was a travesty and its inability to develop characters and their respective plotlines outside of Parker and MJ was just one of the many problems (but the core problem).

Well, not just Spider-Man 3. Look at how Tony Stark is outsmarted by Vanko, overmatched by Rhodey, and mostly outplayed by Stane with no prior experience. Look at Blonsky overcoming Banner instantly after being drugged, despite being and understanding Hulk for a long time. Look at Smith rising up with Neo after he becomes The One, flying and everything like it's nothing. I'm just saying that it seems villains always seem to take a very easy, simple path whereas other characters can fit in their shoes in a flash of the time, though it mostly seems to be villains.

This hasn't yet been the case in Batman. Ras was Bruce's mentor, Scarecrow used his drug, The Joker was unpredictable and owned half of the city's criminals, and Two-Face was unexpected and handled a gun (though didn't have too many issues with Batman until the end anyway). Bane looks like he's coming "right place, right time" as Batman flees, and he's all brawn, perhaps more than that, but I don't yet know how that will play out. I just don't understand where Selina Kyle gets her moxy, or better yet where she comes from.

I think Nolan has proved it with everything he has done regarding this series to be trusted with the characters he brings in. He doesn't undercut the development of his characters nor portray Bats or any of his characters as flawless and invulnerable (well, maybe Gordon). The obsession with a fully monologued back story is too easy and uncreative to me. I like how Nolan has fleshed out character histories by leaving little tracings back to through their past to their beginning. He adequately gives the character a sense of existence before appearing on screen even without showing their past. I'm sure Catwoman and Bane will be done the same way.

I have no problem with this, as long as it happens (read below).

As for Catwoman, I don't get why people opposed to having a woman (finally) actually being able to challenge (or help, whichever the case may be) Batman. I don't want another Rachel. She was a weak character to me. She lacked an air of authority. Her threats had no real conviction. The title of DA wore on her like an XL shirt on a toddler. In the end, Rachel never seemed more than a little girl. As such, she was a burden and a chore. If Catwoman (or Talia for that matter) comes in and doesn't try to challenge Bruce/Batman and doesn't try to at least be his equal, then its just Rachel all over again. If Selina doesn't, then she can't be a true threat nor an actual advantage for Batman, thus making her character rather pointless (again, Rachel 2.0) and not at all interesting. People should be expecting this out of Catwoman and be pissed off if it doesn't happen. Why should she slide beside Batman's side and not try to make a bigger shadow?

I won't have a problem with the way Nolan works with what he has, as of now I just have a problem with what he has been given. That's like saying, "Okay, in this movie Batman will only have one arm." Umm... okay, that's fine I guess. We can still make him kick ***, as opposed to just giving up crime fighting in general. But why would we do that? I'm sure Nolan has his reasons to have Catwoman, but again, from looking on the outside it just doesn't seem right. If you must put her in, I guess it is better to make her an equal or superior, and not his sidekick. I don't think we should be forced to make that choice, though. She doesn't have to be in this film.

Besides, I think the bigger question is: how can she make a bigger shadow? I can't think of one good reason that Anne Hathaway can match up as an equal to Batman in any which way. Gender aside, she lacks the weight, muscle, known training/experience, gadgetry, armor, equipment, resources, motivation, and respect. Of course, this can be all created... but it would need to be a huge part of the story. Again, Selina Kyle hasn't existed in this universe yet. Where does she pop out from, and how long has she been hiding from what she wants to go ahead and do?

Obviously, I know nothing about the story so far. I'm simply saying that this stuff needs to happen for it to fit with what has been done with this franchise so far. I haven't yet understood the need for "Catwoman" to appear in this story line, but I'm sure there will be good enough reason for it. I might have a slight problem with female authority on a physical level, but it might also be because it's Anne Hathaway and not Uma Thurman. I'm really not sure where it comes from that, so far, I don't see how it's a good idea. I'm sure I'll be wrong though, and I couldn't be happier to be wrong.


EDIT: I can't believe I've posted 107 times in this thread, and the only thing I've seen from this film is a crappy quality teaser.

[The GIGGAS]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

EDIT: I can't believe I've posted 107 times in this thread, and the only thing I've seen from this film is a crappy quality teaser.

I can easily believe this.

[BlueNGold]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

My opinion is people take the realistic thing too seriously. This is a trilogy of movies about a guy that dresses as a bat, drives a big *** tank and beats the hell out of criminals. Yes, thats really realistic. Also, remember the two parts in Begins where Batman magically flies straight up in the air (when he takes down Falcone and when he's fighting Scarecrow's thugs when Scarecrow poisons Rachel)? Again, how is that realistic?

I do get the point about TDK going away from some of the original themes or style of Begins, but that movie is still the best superhero movie ever and set the bar for every other superhero movie released since.

And finally, I don't understand how Batman fans can be told they can't be subjective to a Batman movie. We had to put up with Batman Forever and Batman & Robin, which most fans would tell you were not good movies.

I still can't believe someone would say this movie is two steps away from Batman & Robin though. Wow.