The Dark Knight Rises

[Fresh Tendrils]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Apparently I just don't get it because the comparison between putting Selina Kyle in this film to chopping off one of Batman's arms loses me. Nolan, in classic Nolan form, hasn't given us anything about Catwoman. At least not anything that says much. We have a picture of Anne on the bat-pod and that's it. Maybe some aren't familiar with Selina Kyle, but all these 'concerns' seem natural to me to ask of any new character being brought into a movie, not just Catwoman.

People were questioning the choice of Heath Ledger as the Joker. I'm figure Nolan can pull some **** out of Anne we would have never expected. How do we know Catwoman lacks all those things? We don't. She could be a martial arts genius and be an elite member of Gotham wealth. There are countless movies devoted to Jet Li taking down guys two and three times his size, but when a woman does it they cry foul. It just doesn't make sense to me that the inclusion of this role is being met with this strange, unfounded opposition.

[Beantown]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Fresh pretty much said everything I would've, so I'll just add this little 'nugget' comment thing to think about -

Batman Begins seems more realistic, absolutely can't argue with that one because Batman doesn't have all of the gadgets, skills, and toys. He had just started out, had just gotten the basic premise of his 'crime fighting' persona down and put together the first round of original, very realistic toys/gadgets to use.

The Dark Knights takes palce after Batman is, for lack of a better way of putting it...well, Batman is Batman. He has the make-shift Batcave with the technology in it. He has the new toys that he developed for himself, or borrowed from the CIA and such. He's developed the ability to be Batman. In Begins, he is a new Batman, a more realistic Batman, because he was still learning, still creating, and still perfecting how to do it. In The Dark Knight, he had already gone through all of that. Of course it's going to seem less realistic because, as Batman (in any form, be it comics/cartoons/movies) develops all of his cool toys and his badass technology he, as a story and a character, become less realistic.

What Nolan did, rather masterfully in my opinion though that obviously isn't shared in this case, by keeping all of his 'unrealistic' toys and stuff grounded in a sense of reality that fits Nolan's Batman Universe. Gotham isn't real, therefore the same realistic laws and rules that apply here do not apply in Nolan's Universe.

[Blzer]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

My opinion is people take the realistic thing too seriously. This is a trilogy of movies about a guy that dresses as a bat, drives a big *** tank and beats the hell out of criminals. Yes, thats really realistic. Also, remember the two parts in Begins where Batman magically flies straight up in the air (when he takes down Falcone and when he's fighting Scarecrow's thugs when Scarecrow poisons Rachel)? Again, how is that realistic?

You're right, and as I said, there were times when I just didn't agree with Nolan's decisions (though in those instances, he was obviously using some sort of grappling hook).

There's a difference between "realism" and "real world grounding," and I really think it falls into the latter. Basically, nobody is ever going to have a genetic mutation where they turn into sand, and nobody is ever going to look like this or this. This is modern-day Chicago with a new name and a new reputation. Within it lives a wealthy man who was trained as a ninja and dresses like a million dollar soldier with bat ears on his helmet.

Could this ever happen in real life? I don't think so. Though, the movie is centralized around this heroic figure, so I assume that as far as strangeness goes, I'm willing to accept that much. No, I wouldn't even want Gordon to be directing him as "Batman" either, as he doesn't (which is good). I think he could do better with the voice, but frankly there is a lot that works with him.

I just like that it just contains that "real world grounding," though... and that there are certain things we can accept because they have a sense of possible belonging in this world, even if they aren't plausible. And yes, I do think that Nolan has a little something up his sleeve when it comes to a certain level of realism, and he would admit it himself. That's how Inception played out, and that's how The Prestige played out (okay, there is a big scientific loophole to that one, but it ain't no Illusionist either). I don't think he will suddenly allow for this film to go the way of the dodo by throwing out that slight sense of realism this franchise has had; if indeed he did, not only would a lot of people inadvertently catch onto it, but I don't think these movies would really be liked as much as they are.

[Blzer]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Apparently I just don't get it because the comparison between putting Selina Kyle in this film to chopping off one of Batman's arms loses me. Nolan, in classic Nolan form, hasn't given us anything about Catwoman. At least not anything that says much. We have a picture of Anne on the bat-pod and that's it. Maybe some aren't familiar with Selina Kyle, but all these 'concerns' seem natural to me to ask of any new character being brought into a movie, not just Catwoman.

Okay, maybe I made a bad example out of the point I was trying to send across. I basically just meant to say that there isn't an excuse to not being able to do anything conceivable with a character, if that character doesn't have to be in the film.

Obviously, there's a good chance that if Christopher Nolan, Jonah Nolan, and David Goyer wanted her in the film, that it means it was the best possible character choice they could have made. I'm a guy who is simply a fan of the first two films, don't know much about the comics, and see this as a big cloud over my head, just hoping that it doesn't rain despite the weatherman's guarantee of zero precipitation. I'm just saying that, I don't see how Kyle can be superior to Wayne in any way aside from agility. The Batman suit is made of Kevlar. I don't know if that's enough for a "nuff said."

People were questioning the choice of Heath Ledger as the Joker. I'm figure Nolan can pull some **** out of Anne we would have never expected. How do we know Catwoman lacks all those things? We don't. She could be a martial arts genius and be an elite member of Gotham wealth. There are countless movies devoted to Jet Li taking down guys two and three times his size, but when a woman does it they cry foul. It just doesn't make sense to me that the inclusion of this role is being met with this strange, unfounded opposition.

As I said, I could be dead wrong. I would just like for her to have that proper introduction, that she's been on this path for quite some time. If they gave us a half hour of "Catwoman Begins," I would be okay with that if it helps explain all of her expertise. I believe you said you would prefer that cliche origin stories get left out when time could be spent doing something else, but I think this is normally what is the big problem with movies that contain a slowly developed main character, and side characters that we can accept to be able to play on the same level without the evolution being seen on screen. I know you don't want me to bring SM3 back into the equation, but that was among its problems. Peter Parker takes years to be able to do web-slinging, and Eddie Brock does it right after he is infected with the symbiote.

As long as Anne Hathaway's character doesn't come out of every combat with her hair and makeup perfectly aligned, I'm sure I'll be fine with the inclusion.

Oh, and I had no problem with Heath when I first heard about him. Then again, I didn't enter the thread titled "The Dark Knight" until months after it was created because I had no idea that was one of Batman's nicknames, so when I first saw him he was already well established as a bad-*** Joker.

[Blzer]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Fresh pretty much said everything I would've, so I'll just add this little 'nugget' comment thing to think about -

Batman Begins seems more realistic, absolutely can't argue with that one because Batman doesn't have all of the gadgets, skills, and toys. He had just started out, had just gotten the basic premise of his 'crime fighting' persona down and put together the first round of original, very realistic toys/gadgets to use.

The Dark Knights takes palce after Batman is, for lack of a better way of putting it...well, Batman is Batman. He has the make-shift Batcave with the technology in it. He has the new toys that he developed for himself, or borrowed from the CIA and such. He's developed the ability to be Batman. In Begins, he is a new Batman, a more realistic Batman, because he was still learning, still creating, and still perfecting how to do it. In The Dark Knight, he had already gone through all of that. Of course it's going to seem less realistic because, as Batman (in any form, be it comics/cartoons/movies) develops all of his cool toys and his badass technology he, as a story and a character, become less realistic.

What Nolan did, rather masterfully in my opinion though that obviously isn't shared in this case, by keeping all of his 'unrealistic' toys and stuff grounded in a sense of reality that fits Nolan's Batman Universe. Gotham isn't real, therefore the same realistic laws and rules that apply here do not apply in Nolan's Universe.

I'm guessing I'm not in the same boat as Money99, because I agree with you here. I've had little issues with the concepts in mind, when it comes to the gadgetry. I could sometimes do with the visual executions, though (even if they might sometimes be necessary, like Scarecrow's blue flower toxin effects or Batman's sonar lenses).

[Nature_Boy]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Spoiler

[LionsFanNJ]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

I approve of this.

[Fresh Tendrils]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Spoiler

Looks awesome.

[Beantown]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

She doesn't belong in a Batman movie.

[marshallfever]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Spoiler

I going to be in love with this movie, but that costume looks TERRIBLE. Then again i'm not sure how to properly give her a correct costume but this looks bad.

[Beantown]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

What about it looks terrible? The only thing I could see is the goggles, but they're modeling those after the recent Catwoman where she actually has access to some technology instead of just using a whip.

[Gizmo]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

For some reason, that picture of her reminds me of the old Alicia Silverstone Batgirl picture. Don't know if that's a good or bad thing lol

[Kashanova]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

What about it looks terrible? The only thing I could see is the goggles, but they're modeling those after the recent Catwoman where she actually has access to some technology instead of just using a whip.

i heard that picture is fake...

[TripleCrown9]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

i heard that picture is fake...

It might be fake, but if it is they did a hell of a job making it look like the photos from the set.

I am, however, fairly certain this picture will hold some of you over, real or not.

Spoiler

[Kashanova]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

It might be fake, but if it is they did a hell of a job making it look like the photos from the set.

I am, however, fairly certain this picture will hold some of you over, real or not.

Spoiler

Spoiler

no doubt in my mind that Talia al ghul is in the film, While reading the novelization of batman begins and seeing the mentions of her in the book theres no doubt that this was the plan all along. Nolan is one sneaky SOB. You gotta love the man... Can't wait to see what he does with Superman