True Detective (Season Two)

[pietasterp]

Re: True Detective (Season Two)

VV and his wife's talks were even worse. I don't remember how long Rust Cole's musings went on for in S1 but when VV and his wife talked, you could pretty much tune out for the next 10-15 minutes while they went on forever with no end in sight.

Forever...that was like the entire first 3 episodes.

For me, the story was much richer in season 2, and there were more characters that I was at least semi-interested in (whereas season 1 was basically just all about Rust and Marty...I can't even name another character from season 1. Which isn't necessarily a criticism.).

Also, I think thematically/tonally, the 2 seasons are just really different. At the risk of way oversimplifying, season 1 was Southern gothic with a lot of horror/supernatural elements, and given that I think Pizzolatto is from N'awlins, maybe he was much more at home there. Season 2 was really noir, and LA noir specifically, with much more emphasis on systemic corruption, etc. Since I tend to prefer the latter in general, perhaps that's why I seem to enjoy season 2 a bit more.

I will say this, though: season 2 works much better binge-watched than did season 1. Which may be a criticism of season 2 in general, since serialization tends to allow for a lack of "tightness" - which is a frequent criticism of serialization.

[dsallupinyaarea]

Re: True Detective (Season Two)

I guess what I don't get is how season 2's dialogue was overwrought and ridiculous (which it was), but season 1 is somehow a masterpiece. If anything, the pointless Rust Cohle musings were much more pretentious than almost anything this season. Obviously you can't argue opinions, but it seems to me that season 2 did nothing more pretentious or ridiculous than season 1, other than having a more (perhaps too) complicated storyline and many more moving parts. I feel like people just went into this season wanting to hate it, and then watched it with that opinion in mind. Which is fine, but at the end of the day, I think it was no better or worse than season 1. Anyway, it was interesting enough for me to continue watching throughout, and still better than just about anything else on during that time. I was entertained.

Someone else brought this up earlier in the thread but the biggest difference was Marty. When Rust started going on and on, Marty was always around to say, "What the **** are you talking about? I just asked if you if you wanted Wendys or Burger King, man." It kept the show grounded and made it more believable.

S2 seemed to double down on Rust Cohles and it just became scene after scene of everyone staring off into the abyss and rambling.

[JayBee74]

Re: True Detective (Season Two)

I guess what I don't get is how season 2's dialogue was overwrought and ridiculous (which it was), but season 1 is somehow a masterpiece. If anything, the pointless Rust Cohle musings were much more pretentious than almost anything this season. Obviously you can't argue opinions, but it seems to me that season 2 did nothing more pretentious or ridiculous than season 1, other than having a more (perhaps too) complicated storyline and many more moving parts. I feel like people just went into this season wanting to hate it, and then watched it with that opinion in mind. Which is fine, but at the end of the day, I think it was no better or worse than season 1. Anyway, it was interesting enough for me to continue watching throughout, and still better than just about anything else on during that time. I was entertained.

I gave TD2 much more leeway because of season one. I got annoyed when people were writing it off or comparing it unfavorably with the first one. Heck, I was rooting for the season finale to salvage some of the remains.

As for the musings of Rust Cohle, they worked!! I don't know if you're talking about the writing or the character being pretentious, but whether you liked the story or not McConaughey was the character, not the star trying to be the character.

I was entertained in spots, but there weren't enough of them.

[ASB37]

Re: True Detective (Season Two)

Forever...that was like the entire first 3 episodes.

For me, the story was much richer in season 2, and there were more characters that I was at least semi-interested in (whereas season 1 was basically just all about Rust and Marty...I can't even name another character from season 1. Which isn't necessarily a criticism.).

Also, I think thematically/tonally, the 2 seasons are just really different. At the risk of way oversimplifying, season 1 was Southern gothic with a lot of horror/supernatural elements, and given that I think Pizzolatto is from N'awlins, maybe he was much more at home there. Season 2 was really noir, and LA noir specifically, with much more emphasis on systemic corruption, etc. Since I tend to prefer the latter in general, perhaps that's why I seem to enjoy season 2 a bit more.

I will say this, though: season 2 works much better binge-watched than did season 1. Which may be a criticism of season 2 in general, since serialization tends to allow for a lack of "tightness" - which is a frequent criticism of serialization.

Well in that case maybe that just goes to show the writing and acting were better because I never really felt like any of S1's rants went on to long. During S2 me and my fiance would routinely comment 5 minutes into a rant about how long and boring VV's monologues were.

[ehh]

Re: True Detective (Season Two)

A four minute Cohle rant in S1 felt shorter than a one minute Frank/Jordan conversation in S2. And infinitely more satisfying.

There was no contrast in S2 as others have said, including D above. Marty and Rust played off each other perfectly. There was nothing even close to that in S2.

[pietasterp]

Re: True Detective (Season Two)

Perhaps all of that is true (vis-a-vis the above arguments). I think story-wise, though, it wouldn't have made much sense for Frank's wife to basically call him out on his musings. The Marty-Rust thing worked because they were partners (who didn't particularly like each other), but no such relationship existed in season 2. For me personally, I found Rust's monologues equally pretentious and annoying as those that bothered you all in season 2. No more, no less. That's just the style of Pizzolatto, I guess - for better or worse.

Taken as a whole, for me the 2nd season seemed richer, and at least there was some resolution at the end.

Spoiler

Season 1, I still have no idea what it was all about...so they got the Yellow King, but what about all the implications of a larger cult / occult overtones? There were hints at some larger issue or conspiracy, but at the end of the day they got one guy who was killing women for unclear reasons.

For me, season 1 started out well, reached a fever pitch by episode 4, then was just downhill all the way to the disappointing conclusion. Season 2 started out slowly, but built in each episode to a pretty thrilling conclusion.

I know I'm not gonna change anyone's mind on this (and neither is it my intention/desire to do so), but I feel like the Interwebz are just full of hate for season 2 and have been from the get-go. It's a different show than season 1. I guess it's better to think of the seasons as episodes of any other show - the creators even said it was really an anthology. So just like one episode of "The Twilight Zone" had nothing to do with any other episode, it sort of doesn't make sense to compare the 2 seasons.

Although I'm going to continue to do so anyway....

[slickdtc]

Re: True Detective (Season Two)

I'm kind of with you in that the Season 1 versus Season 2 comparisons were gonna doom this thing. I was throughly entertained and happy with the season until episode 6 or 7, I'd say. It got too big and I knew the finale was gonna be somewhat of a letdown, as far as resolution goes.

I do think it's received an extra level of criticism, but it also deserved a good amount of that too. Still, every scene, dialogue, etc was held up to S1 instead of on its own. At times that was a good thing because it was weak and needed the True Detective name to carry it, other times I think it hurt the show because you were too busy analyzing and comparing it instead of just watching and enjoying it.

Rust and Marty were a great duo. They tried to stretch two characters into four and make them all act the same (mostly), and I do think that blew up in their face. Go back to two main characters, maybe a 3rd for a villain, and I think TD will be better off.

I haven't watched the finale yet (will tonight with the wife), but it sounds like my feeling was right, that all or most all parties would be killed off. It was the only possible outcome once they went as far as they did.

Still enjoyed it. And I'm simultaneously going through The Wire for the first time, so I'm seeing first hand the influences and greatness from that show rubbing off or falling short on and in TD.

I want to go back and watch both seasons through. My gut tells me that S2 will stand out more and S1 will have a bit of a case of nostalgia holding it up. All shows have slow times and filled, but we tend to forget them when we think of a show in one complete piece.

We'll only remember the best parts of S2 when we busy ranting about S3 being terrible.

[Burns11]

Re: True Detective (Season Two)

Season one I couldn't wait to watch the next episode, season two I wouldn't have cared either way. If there was a game out I needed to sink hours into, or something else on TV (even for summer this year has been pretty bleak), I wouldn't have watched past like the third episode and I know quite a few people that did stop after one.

I don't think the first season will hold up because of the ending, so all this conspiracy stuff that went nowhere won't be interesting, it will just make you angry.

Second season had a slightly more satisfying ending, but the whole season was lame. Looking back, season two had a similar problem as season one, all the stuff about the corridor, the murder, the sex parties, etc was all bunk, it ended up being all turning on a mundane robbery-murder and the orphaned twins looking to get revenge on the perpetrator cops that are now politicians. So we get all this fluff and it ends up being the gardener/photographer. Granted there did end up being a conspiracy, but a rather lame one and not really related to the grander conspiracy it tried to insinuate at the start.

[pietasterp]

Re: True Detective (Season Two)

Second season had a slightly more satisfying ending, but the whole season was lame. Looking back, season two had a similar problem as season one, all the stuff about the corridor, the murder, the sex parties, etc was all bunk, it ended up being all turning on a mundane robbery-murder and the orphaned twins looking to get revenge on the perpetrator cops that are now politicians. So we get all this fluff and it ends up being the gardener/photographer. Granted there did end up being a conspiracy, but a rather lame one and not really related to the grander conspiracy it tried to insinuate at the start.

I guess from my perspective, the murder of Caspere was simply an entry point into the massive corruption in Vinci, so the fact that it ended up being secondary or even peripheral to the larger story wasn't a problem for me.

On a totally unrelated note, when Vince Vaughn asks Rachel McAdams in that hideout at the Black Rose bar "Have we met before?", I couldn't help but in my head have her answer: "Yeah, you crashed my sister's wedding, spent the weekend at our summer house, and then married my other sister. How do you not remember that?".

[JODYE]

Re: True Detective (Season Two)

A disappointing end to a disappointing season.

Ginormous plot holes, erratic writing and too much wasted time on arbitrary filler that had no effect on the story. This was an 8 episode season paced like it was 23 episodes long. Really quite a shame because a breakout performance from Vince Vaughn was wasted and overshadowed by everything that was done wrong, at least for me. Too many times I sat watching this show asking myself "why do we care"?

Not to mention the completely anti-climactic reveal. I understand the corruption in Vinci and how it all tied together, but it felt empty. The killers we couldn't have cared less about and revealing that Vinci PD was invovled was never a surprise as they showed how corrupt they were from the very beginning. I didn't feel anything when Tony Chessani was named mayor because we never even watched his character develop. And the list goes on.

Hopefully Season 3 is much better than this.

[jeremym480]

Re: True Detective (Season Two)

I don't know if plagiarize is the right word, but here's a nice article showing some comparisons between S1 and S2.

http://uproxx.com/tv/2015/08/how-much-did-nic-pizzolatto-self-plagiarize-true-detective-season-two/

[CMH]

Re: True Detective (Season Two)

I don't know if plagiarize is the right word, but here's a nice article showing some comparisons between S1 and S2.

http://uproxx.com/tv/2015/08/how-muc...ve-season-two/

I stopped watching but still reading about the show.

A part of me wonders if there's more linked to these two seasons than Nic wants viewers to believe.

Or I'm giving him too much credit and he basically copied and pasted his formula for season 2.

sent from my mobile device

[pietasterp]

Re: True Detective (Season Two)

I don't know if plagiarize is the right word, but here's a nice article showing some comparisons between S1 and S2.

http://uproxx.com/tv/2015/08/how-muc...ve-season-two/

I dunno, much of that article is citing some pretty flimsy 'similarities' IMO. Yes, they're both centered around murder investigations. As are most police-related dramas. After that, I think it gets really thin...

[fistofrage]

Re: True Detective (Season Two)

Finally got around to watching the last 2 episodes. Actually fell asleep during the finale, so I had to watch it again.

I don't know if they were just rambling and staring into space or reading teleprompters. Either way the story was way to convoluted and the actors not engaging enough to make you want to pay attention to everything they had to say. Season 1, you sat at the edge of your seat digesting the dialogue, season 2, was more like just spit it out already and for goodness sakes get a good night's sleep before your shoot. Vince's wife looked like they just rousted her from a nap before every scene.

The chunky red head kid was Colin's kid. Sure. I see the striking resemblance in the mother and father. That was supposed to be a tale of gutwrenching irony and instead it was just another failed storyline.

In the end, I didn't feel any real attachment to any of the characters. The season failed to deliver. I hope they bring back some passion in season 3.

[JayBee74]

Re: True Detective (Season Two)

Vince's wife looked like they just rousted her from a nap before every scene.

Too bad she had to wake up and talk.

The chunky red head kid was Colin's kid. Sure. I see the striking resemblance in the mother and father. That was supposed to be a tale of gutwrenching irony and instead it was just another failed storyline.

Ah, but that "dis-resemblance" was a way to throw the viewer off. Who would have thought it was Colin's kid? Clever.....

Spoiler

I'm kidding