360 vs PS3

[stiffarmleft]

Re: 360 vs PS3

One thing that worries me is quote from the below article, an interview with Epic VP Mark Rein.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/news/news_story.php(que)id=125925

"Unreal Tournament was 6GB compressed. Next Generation games are going to be 20GB plus, and how we're going to fit them on DVD9's I don't know, they'll probably be a few of them. On the PS3, we're going to be using the majority of the space on those Blu-ray disks."

This does not bode well for the 360 if true, I really, really wish the 360 came with some sort of HD-DVD drive. Hopefully Microsoft has some kind of nifty compression alogorithm to make 20+ gb fit on a DVD. I hope Microsoft was not so short sighted to overlook something as obvious as this, especially after requiring all games support at least 720p.

[dagger55]

Re: 360 vs PS3

One thing that worries me is quote from the below article, an interview with Epic VP Mark Rein.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/news/news_story.php(que)id=125925

"Unreal Tournament was 6GB compressed. Next Generation games are going to be 20GB plus, and how we're going to fit them on DVD9's I don't know, they'll probably be a few of them. On the PS3, we're going to be using the majority of the space on those Blu-ray disks."

This does not bode well for the 360 if true, I really, really wish the 360 came with some sort of HD-DVD drive. Hopefully Microsoft has some kind of nifty compression alogorithm to make 20+ gb fit on a DVD. I hope Microsoft was not so short sighted to overlook something as obvious as this, especially after requiring all games support at least 720p.

actually, i believe MS is developing a technology that allows disk to contain 50 GB on current disk formats....

ill see if i can find the link


EDIT: heres the link
http://forums.operationsports.com/vB...d.php?t=140778

[LIGHTNING]

Re: 360 vs PS3

I'll be getting the 360 and the PS3(eventually), next gen won't be as much about graphics as it will be AI, physics, and animation....in my opinion of course....nothing on either PS3 or 360 has impressed me graphic wise, because I'm not expecting as big of a leap from this generation to next as the PS1 to PS2 was....I'm thinking each generation is going to be a smaller graphical leap from now on, the real leap as I said, will be AI, physics, and animation.

AI, physics, and game control are going to suffer on the next generation consoles. Both platforms use in-order execution architecture which Intel abandoned after the first Pentium chip back in the 1990s. It is old technology and is very inefficient. You can have good code but will run slow on these CPUs if everything is not near perfect. Even the best programmers will struggle with AI and physics developing for the next generation platforms. There were some rants about this at the GDC last spring. The PS3 is actually worse than the XBOX 360 because it is asymmetrical and the SPEs are limited. The best you can hope for next generation is better graphics do not expect much improvement in AI, physics and the things that make games fun to play. Some code will run slower on the PS3 than the XBOX which is only 720 MHz! I think the PC is coming back big time.


If you want to read more about the over hyped next generation game consoles visit www.arstechnica.com A very objective reputable website that has some articles on the XBOX 360 and PS3.

[stiffarmleft]

Re: 360 vs PS3

actually, i believe MS is developing a technology that allows disk to contain 50 GB on current disk formats....

ill see if i can find the link


EDIT: heres the link
http://forums.operationsports.com/vB...d.php?t=140778

Thanks, this makes me feel better.

[stiffarmleft]

Re: 360 vs PS3

AI, physics, and game control are going to suffer on the next generation consoles. Both platforms use in-order execution architecture which Intel abandoned after the first Pentium chip back in the 1990s. It is old technology and is very inefficient. You can have good code but will run slow on these CPUs if everything is not near perfect. Even the best programmers will struggle with AI and physics developing for the next generation platforms. There were some rants about this at the GDC last spring. The PS3 is actually worse than the XBOX 360 because it is asymmetrical and the SPEs are limited. The best you can hope for next generation is better graphics do not expect much improvement in AI, physics and the things that make games fun to play. Some code will run slower on the PS3 than the XBOX which is only 720 MHz! I think the PC is coming back big time.


If you want to read more about the over hyped next generation game consoles visit www.arstechnica.com A very objective reputable website that has some articles on the XBOX 360 and PS3.

I'm not nearly as smart or versed as you on this subject, but wouldn't alot of the middleware apps coming out for these next gen consoles help developers with physics and AI. Please school me if I'm wrong.

[LIGHTNING]

Re: 360 vs PS3

I'm not nearly as smart or versed as you on this subject, but wouldn't alot of the middleware apps coming out for these next gen consoles help developers with physics and AI. Please school me if I'm wrong.

Yes the middleware will help some but not all that much. They will have to come up with a super good compiler or performance is going to really suffer. The problem I see with all this is that the cost of making games is going to increase significantly driving out the smaller developers. The industry needs more developers not less. We could be looking at a crash 3 to 5 years from now.

[Flawless]

Re: 360 vs PS3

One thing that worries me is quote from the below article, an interview with Epic VP Mark Rein.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/news/news_story.php(que)id=125925

"Unreal Tournament was 6GB compressed. Next Generation games are going to be 20GB plus, and how we're going to fit them on DVD9's I don't know, they'll probably be a few of them. On the PS3, we're going to be using the majority of the space on those Blu-ray disks."

This does not bode well for the 360 if true, I really, really wish the 360 came with some sort of HD-DVD drive. Hopefully Microsoft has some kind of nifty compression alogorithm to make 20+ gb fit on a DVD. I hope Microsoft was not so short sighted to overlook something as obvious as this, especially after requiring all games support at least 720p.

I just noticed the source is CVG :y4:. Sorry, but I'll wait for another site to report on this, because this one has been known to just make random stuff up. Might not be the case this time, but I'm skeptical.

Mark Rein is Vice President of Epic Games, but Gears of War isn't going to be 20GB +. Cliffy B already said they will have no problem fitting their game on a single DVD-9, kind of hard to make claims across the board for all devs when your own product goes contrary to the claims you're making. Again, I'm kind of skeptical of this article.

However, I can see it being a problem for devs who want to add hours of pre-rendered movies to tell their stories, but it looks like Microsoft may have an answer to this, not right now, but sometime in the near future with FVD.

Here's some comments from Allard in GameInformer...

GI: Some have Critized Microsoft for going with DVD-9 instead of HD-DVD. Are developers disappointed in the choice?

Allard: "I'd be lying if i didn't say there were a handful. My question to them always is, "well, What's the budget for your game?" We had DVD-9 this last generation, and over 90 percent of the game fit in under three GBs. I think its one of those intellectual things, where developers say, "gee, I wish there was more, If there was more, I'd use it". The reality is, these guys cut about 15 percent of the game that they conceive of in the beginning to get it out the door. You look at it, and basically 70 percent of (the space on most) xbox discs are blank. The stuff we're focused on, and the stuff that matters, that all fits."

GI: Did you consider using HD-DVD?

Allard: "Yeah, we did. We considered it really, carefully. We've been working on the project now for about three years, and the blue laser technology has been around for about the same time. The first thing we looked at was what the developer need was. That's why i can quote and say that 90 percent of the xbox games are under three gigs. We talked to developers and said, "hey, What are your needs, what do you think about storage?" the number one thing everyone comes back with is through-put. They say, "it's all about streaming performance. I want to be able to make games more like GTA, with these open-ended environments, where I'm streaming off the disc. I need high through-put" So, we took that development need which 80 percent of developers would agree on . Unlike the (disc) capacity thing, which only five percent of the developers were worried about it. You expect that these first Blu-ray drives or blue-laser drives are going to be 1x or 2x through-put instead of 12x, which is the best you can get with a red laser. The voice on the other shoulder says, "well what about the hi-def movie thing, and if that really takes off, aren't you gonna screw yourself?" No, because we have a flexible system, and we can just build a system with that kind of drive if that takes off."

GI: How does the Xbox 360 decompress data from the discs? Is it a disadvantage because of the system's use of conventional DVD discs?

Allard: "On the CPU architecture, we've built a really high bandwidth access to memory (and decompression technology on the hardware). And a very general, all purpose computer architecture that basically allows you to write your own decompressors to decompress however you want. This is one of the reasons we went to the multi-core architecture and said, "Hey, if you're id or you're Tiburon or you're Rockstar, you can go to build a streaming decompression system that works for your environment, and we'll give you the bandwidth to do it". (Its) a very similar design to the original Xbox or to PC, where its very easy to program to and you use one of those cores and have your Rockstar I/O developer create this streaming system that's totally customized to your needs, because we've got the bandwidth and memory, and you've got the CPU horsepower. We've architectured it in a way were you can go pick up one of those CPUs to do unbelievable decompression, and there's another CPU over there that doesn't affect the game loop."


As for the debate who's more powerful, I'm not even going to get involved in this anymore. We won't know until later in both life cycles.

[ludacris06]

Re: 360 vs PS3

no reason for the sarcasm.

he obviously knows more about the subject than you do, and does bring up valid points.

however that said, i think since the ps3 wont be out for many months, developers will be able to iron alot of things out, and while the first batch of games wont look like the killzone vid, i believe both systems will be capable of producing games like that down the line.

hell, just look at gears of war.... that game is running on final hardware, and looks insane

I also assume you are a developer for the PS3 as well.

Aw man, the future doesn't look bright for Sony.

I'm gettin the 360 with no question about it.

[dagger55]

Re: 360 vs PS3

I also assume you are a developer for the PS3 as well.

Aw man, the future doesn't look bright for Sony.

I'm gettin the 360 with no question about it.

did you even READ my post?

i said the ps3 WOULD be able to hit the killzone vid mark???

Seriously man, calm down, and jump off the microsoft bashing.


and to answer your question- no i'm not a ps3 developer. however, I am in my third year of studying to become a software engineer, so am i more qualifed than you to shed any type of light on the subject- i would think so.

[Peji911]

Re: 360 vs PS3

I also assume you are a developer for the PS3 as well.

Aw man, the future doesn't look bright for Sony.

I'm gettin the 360 with no question about it.

are you 12 yrs old wanting to rebel against life....
how immature can sumone be... the guy agrees with you and you still put him down... obviously ur a fanboy, hands down

just reading wut u post makes me wanna meet you... maybe others are in the same boat... wanna see if you were this lippy in person...

as for the thread.. i am finding it very helpful to be honest... its very subjective but good points are made about both systems... for sum reason im points more to the ps3 now, but dont know why,,, i have all 3 current gen systems and rank xbox waaaaaay above the other two, with ps2 2nd and gamecube 3rd, maily cuz its games r more for kids, memory card problems, controller sucks imo, altho it is faster and has better graphics than the ps2

[Beantown]

Re: 360 vs PS3

The thing about the PS3 is it's so hit or miss right now, because this kind of technology hasn't been used in video games before. It could, and probably should, be amazing, but there's always that chance that this technology tanks. Then again, the 360 could be overhyped as well, but from what I've see of the 360 in vids/pics, it's looking very, very good for my gaming future.

[ludacris06]

Re: 360 vs PS3

Microsoft isn't going to advance far because they aren't willing to take risks like Sony and Nintendo.

Once Nintendo or Sony find something successful, M$ will come and bite it. The 360 is just another Xbox with better graphics. The PS3 is somewhat similar, but I'm into the whole non-gaming side of the system too. The Revolution is going to revolutionize the way we play games all together.

[dagger55]

Re: 360 vs PS3

Microsoft isn't going to advance far because they aren't willing to take risks like Sony and Nintendo.

Once Nintendo or Sony find something successful, M$ will come and bite it. The 360 is just another Xbox with better graphics. The PS3 is somewhat similar, but I'm into the whole non-gaming side of the system too. The Revolution is going to revolutionize the way we play games all together.

just curious....

what risk is MS not taking that Sony is?

EDIT: and btw, with Windows Media Center or the new Windows Vista coming out next year, the 360 will be much more than just a gaming console.

[Beantown]

Re: 360 vs PS3

And the 360 also has capabilites to talk with people while not actually playing a game, you can upload music and photos to your tv through it, connect to certain internet-related things through it...it's not just a gaming-console.

[Heelfan71]

Re: 360 vs PS3

Microsoft isn't going to advance far because they aren't willing to take risks like Sony and Nintendo.

Once Nintendo or Sony find something successful, M$ will come and bite it. The 360 is just another Xbox with better graphics. The PS3 is somewhat similar, but I'm into the whole non-gaming side of the system too. The Revolution is going to revolutionize the way we play games all together.

so you are off the PS3 bandwagon and now on the Revoluton bandwagon. Funny how no info is out on the Revolution except the controller. No game info, screenshots etc, yet you are sure it will "Revolutionize gaming"

And the 360 does much more than the xbox. it is a home media center.


video chat
hook ipod to it for custom soundtracks
hook camera and view pics and store on hard drive
Stream music from PC
Stream movies from PC (in HD)
Stream pics from PC


With the home media center you can record tv shows on your cpu and stream them to your tv.