Splinter Cell Conviction (360 & PC)

[Brandwin]

Re: Splinter Cell Conviction (360 & PC)

It shouldn't be long Dookie. You know you can search stores in your area's used inventory with the gamestop website right?

I know it may make the drive a little longer, but usually if you explain the situation they might hold something behind the counter for you for 30 min or so if you call.

I didn't know that. Thanks for telling me.

[allBthere]

Re: Splinter Cell Conviction (360 & PC)

It's okay, but it's definitely NOT splinter cell.

I have two big problems with it, neither of which have anything to do with length.

1) the puzzle aspect of splinter cell is gone. I feel like in conviction I always know exactly where to go and what to do. Splinter Cell was never about big set pieces, but this one is more CODMW2 in that regard. There are a ton of big set piece moments that just feel out of place. also, the interrogations from past splinter cells were much better, as they usually brought some humor to the proceedings. the interrogations here, while brutal, are limited by invisible walls and limited interactivity. also, they are very canned, and there's never a question of whether or not you're going to get the answers you need. It's kinda like in austin powers 2 (i think), where if you ask the guy the same question 3 times, he will always answer.

2)

Spoiler

the main impetus for the story goes away rather quickly. it is discovered very early on in the game that Sam's daughter isn't dead, and it makes the whole revenge factor rather silly. This isn't a game about revenge, it's a basic Tom Clancy story, with the revenge part as the McGuffin. IMO, this game should have been more about getting revenge on Third Echelon, and they should have set it up kind of like hitman, where you have to take out Third Echelon targets in different locales in order to get to the main guy. I am almost at the end, and I think there's a swerve coming, but the whole reason to play the game is gone rather early. At the start of the third act, Sam's daughter isn't even in danger, she's actually with sam. so that whole buildup was kinda pointless IMO. Also, the reason why Sam's daughter's death was faked was kinda silly to me. It made no sense.

I largely agree with you here. When you beat the game (i did on realistic or whatever) try hunter. I actually liked it more than the story mode. To me it is somehow more 'splinter-cell-esque' in terms of gameplay than the story is.

I still maintain splinter cell 1 was the best and they've somewhat declined every iteration with the exception of chaos theory.

there were so many gameplay elements that are missing now.

splits jump, jumping, thermal vision for meat locker type places and detecting mines, EM vision for certain alarms and traps, night vision the good kind from sc1 (imo it's stupid now how you go black and white in the shadows, it gives you no visual advantage), going over the shoulder you could switch shoulders, picking up objects and throwing them - and putting arc on them or fastball you could even knock out badguys with a bottle, zip line, rappelling, medkits, sniper rifle, better sticky cam's, sticky cam's from gun, Electro magnetic pistol attachment, gun turrets and hacking them, picking locks, using thermal vision to see finger prints on passcode places. using vents and air ducts (complexity of 'levels'), deactivating motion mines and planting them yourself....and I could go on and on...

ALL of that stuff is gone now and has been slowly dropped since the first game.

Splinter cell 1 goes down for me as one of the greatest single player experiences of all time. Now it's morphed into a fun rental.

[jmood88]

Re: Splinter Cell Conviction (360 & PC)

there were so many gameplay elements that are missing now.

splits jump

There's nothing special about this, the whole purpose of that was to get above someone then drop down and kill them, which you can do in this game whenever you're on a higher plane than an enemy.

jumping,

What would this add to the game? You can jump over objects that make sense to jump over in this game, there's no reason to have a jump button when it adds nothing to the game.

thermal vision for meat locker type places and detecting mines

Neither of these things were in this game so thermal vision wouldn't have added anything and you could see everything with the sonar goggles.

EM vision for certain alarms and traps

In case you missed it, there was a level in this game with these traps where the sonar googles did the exact same thing that you say is gone from the game

night vision the good kind from sc1 (imo it's stupid now how you go black and white in the shadows, it gives you no visual advantage)

This would have been useful since you don't have the sonar goggles all the time

going over the shoulder you could switch shoulders,

There was really no point in the game where this was needed

picking up objects and throwing them - and putting arc on them or fastball you could even knock out badguys with a bottle

This is the most glaring omission from the game

zip line, rappelling,

Neither of these are fundamental gameplay elements. You couldn't set a zip line wherever you wanted in past Splinter Cells, they were already set up and used mostly for extraction.

medkits

No need for them

sniper rifle

You can upgrade silenced guns with scopes so that they act like sniper rifles without making noise

better sticky cam's

What would make the sticky cam in this game better than it already is?

sticky cam's from gun

This is just complaining for the sake of complaining.

Electro magnetic pistol attachment

It would be useful but it's not game-breaking

gun turrets and hacking them, picking locks, using thermal vision to see finger prints on passcode places. using vents and air ducts (complexity of 'levels'), deactivating motion mines and planting them yourself....and I could go on and on...

Most of the stuff you listed are things that were things that were only designed for certain stages in past Splinter Cell's, not viable things to attempt in every mission. Just about every stages in this game has multiple ways to get around so while you're complaining about not getting into air vents, you're ignoring the fact that you can go around windows, go on pipes, go through completely different entrances etc.

ALL of that stuff is gone now and has been slowly dropped since the first game.

A lot of that stuff you listed are things that weren't even in the first Splinter Cell.

[Brandwin]

Re: Splinter Cell Conviction (360 & PC)

Still no used copy around. I'm getting so close
to buying this new...

[mrprice33]

Re: Splinter Cell Conviction (360 & PC)

dookie, I'll sell you my copy. I just finished it. PM?

[allBthere]

Re: Splinter Cell Conviction (360 & PC)

There's nothing special about this, the whole purpose of that was to get above someone then drop down and kill them, which you can do in this game whenever you're on a higher plane than an enemy.


What would this add to the game? You can jump over objects that make sense to jump over in this game, there's no reason to have a jump button when it adds nothing to the game.


Neither of these things were in this game so thermal vision wouldn't have added anything and you could see everything with the sonar goggles.


In case you missed it, there was a level in this game with these traps where the sonar googles did the exact same thing that you say is gone from the game


This would have been useful since you don't have the sonar goggles all the time


There was really no point in the game where this was needed


This is the most glaring omission from the game


Neither of these are fundamental gameplay elements. You couldn't set a zip line wherever you wanted in past Splinter Cells, they were already set up and used mostly for extraction.


No need for them


You can upgrade silenced guns with scopes so that they act like sniper rifles without making noise


What would make the sticky cam in this game better than it already is?


This is just complaining for the sake of complaining.


It would be useful but it's not game-breaking


Most of the stuff you listed are things that were things that were only designed for certain stages in past Splinter Cell's, not viable things to attempt in every mission. Just about every stages in this game has multiple ways to get around so while you're complaining about not getting into air vents, you're ignoring the fact that you can go around windows, go on pipes, go through completely different entrances etc.



A lot of that stuff you listed are things that weren't even in the first Splinter Cell.

I liked all those things and you completely missed the point of my post. The point was the game is barely similar to the older ones in design and to an extent gameplay. In the new game there is no real 'infiltration' - the older games had such a dynamic range of things you could do and they were much more complex. I like the complexity, I'm not complaining to complain..I'm pointing something out which was playing this game was fun, but it actually made me miss playing the old games because I loved that complexity and versatility.


"Neither of these things were in this game so thermal vision wouldn't have added anything and you could see everything with the sonar goggles."

I know that and that IS my point...I liked more variety and infiltration and sneaking around. The fact that those things weren't in the game does indeed make something like thermal vision useless. My point though was had they designed the game closer to the original - you can do so many more things.

So yes it's a good game and I had fun. But it made me want original splinter cell action. I won't get it though because developers are pushing all the time for 'accessibility' - something Flawless pointed out in another thread.

[jmood88]

Re: Splinter Cell Conviction (360 & PC)

The point was the game is barely similar to the older ones in design and to an extent gameplay.

No it's not.

In the new game there is no real 'infiltration' - the older games had such a dynamic range of things you could do and they were much more complex.

That's completely untrue. If you want to do like the older games and stop and plan what you want to do then you can, if you want to run in and try to shoot everyone then you can do that as well. They didn't take out any infiltration or planning, they let play the game how they want to play it while still retaining consequences for the player if they just run out in the open trying to shoot all the time.

I like the complexity, I'm not complaining to complain..I'm pointing something out which was playing this game was fun, but it actually made me miss playing the old games because I loved that complexity and versatility.

Yes you are complaining just to complain because many of the "gameplay features" that you say are missing are improvements over the original game.

"Neither of these things were in this game so thermal vision wouldn't have added anything and you could see everything with the sonar goggles."

I know that and that IS my point...I liked more variety and infiltration and sneaking around. The fact that those things weren't in the game does indeed make something like thermal vision useless. My point though was had they designed the game closer to the original - you can do so many more things.

No, the reason those things are useless is because they were either designed around something that wasn't in the game or because the functions they serve are combined into one device that lets you see everything that you would've seen with the old gadgets without having to switch into another vision mode.

So yes it's a good game and I had fun. But it made me want original splinter cell action. I won't get it though because developers are pushing all the time for 'accessibility' - something Flawless pointed out in another thread.

And like I said before, most of the things that you claim to love from the original game weren't even in the original game.

[allBthere]

Re: Splinter Cell Conviction (360 & PC)

No it's not.


That's completely untrue. If you want to do like the older games and stop and plan what you want to do then you can, if you want to run in and try to shoot everyone then you can do that as well. They didn't take out any infiltration or planning, they let play the game how they want to play it while still retaining consequences for the player if they just run out in the open trying to shoot all the time.


Yes you are complaining just to complain because many of the "gameplay features" that you say are missing are improvements over the original game.



No, the reason those things are useless is because they were either designed around something that wasn't in the game or because the functions they serve are combined into one device that lets you see everything that you would've seen with the old gadgets without having to switch into another vision mode.


And like I said before, most of the things that you claim to love from the original game weren't even in the original game.

really in conviction you can pick locks, find out access codes by hacking computers and peek through doors by opening them a crack?

the bottom line is you could do way more things in the original game than you can in conviction - to me it's not even a matter of debate. I don't think you even remember the first game especially when you said MOST of the things I listed were not in the game. The very first level in the parking garage, you zip line onto a building that you must infiltrate which is also on fire and you must disarm motion mines. The levels themselves were also more clever and way more complex.

I don't even care if you agree with me though because it's seems like you're trying to pick apart my posts just trying to start and argument. I don't see anyone else saying I'm totally off base, I don't expect to either.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Splinter Cell Conviction (360 & PC)

Went to the Gamestop up the street from my house and bought this but I'll probably wait til after the Spurs-Mavs game to be done before I pop it in.

[mrprice33]

Re: Splinter Cell Conviction (360 & PC)

No it's not.


That's completely untrue. If you want to do like the older games and stop and plan what you want to do then you can, if you want to run in and try to shoot everyone then you can do that as well. They didn't take out any infiltration or planning, they let play the game how they want to play it while still retaining consequences for the player if they just run out in the open trying to shoot all the time.


Yes you are complaining just to complain because many of the "gameplay features" that you say are missing are improvements over the original game.



No, the reason those things are useless is because they were either designed around something that wasn't in the game or because the functions they serve are combined into one device that lets you see everything that you would've seen with the old gadgets without having to switch into another vision mode.


And like I said before, most of the things that you claim to love from the original game weren't even in the original game.

Do you disagree with the notions that the levels in Conviction are, with a couple of exceptions, far less open-ended than, say, Chaos Theory (or even Double Agent)?

To me Chaos Theory is still the pinnacle of this series. Conviction is an alright game, but IMO this game has a lot more in common with Gears of War than with Chaos Theory.

[TheDutchDad]

Re: Splinter Cell Conviction (360 & PC)

No it's not.


That's completely untrue. If you want to do like the older games and stop and plan what you want to do then you can, if you want to run in and try to shoot everyone then you can do that as well. They didn't take out any infiltration or planning, they let play the game how they want to play it while still retaining consequences for the player if they just run out in the open trying to shoot all the time.


Yes you are complaining just to complain because many of the "gameplay features" that you say are missing are improvements over the original game.



No, the reason those things are useless is because they were either designed around something that wasn't in the game or because the functions they serve are combined into one device that lets you see everything that you would've seen with the old gadgets without having to switch into another vision mode.


And like I said before, most of the things that you claim to love from the original game weren't even in the original game.

Dude, you must be playing a different game or something. Everything he has said has been pretty spot on. I still really enjoy it so far, but it is very far from what SC used to be. I think they had to dumb down the tactical side of it to appease most people cause I have friends that hated the last few SC's, but love this one. And I know why...because it doesnt require as much thought.

[Beantown]

Re: Splinter Cell Conviction (360 & PC)

really in conviction you can pick locks, find out access codes by hacking computers and peek through doors by opening them a crack?

the bottom line is you could do way more things in the original game than you can in conviction - to me it's not even a matter of debate. I don't think you even remember the first game especially when you said MOST of the things I listed were not in the game. The very first level in the parking garage, you zip line onto a building that you must infiltrate which is also on fire and you must disarm motion mines. The levels themselves were also more clever and way more complex.

I don't even care if you agree with me though because it's seems like you're trying to pick apart my posts just trying to start and argument. I don't see anyone else saying I'm totally off base, I don't expect to either.

The simple answer is: The story they went with for this game did not need any of those things you asked for -

-There were no plethora of the gadgets, sans the throwable ones, because Fisher was not working with Third Echelon anymore, therefore he didn't have access to the night vision or thermal goggles, and you get the Sonar ones (which, in my opinion, are better) when it is relevant in the story.

-You can peek under doors in this one, so I really don't see how opening the door a crack to peek is any better than that. It actually makes more sense for a guy with Sam's training to use a broken mirror or the tool Grimm gives him to look under the door instead of opening it up a crack

-They reduced the level of "infiltration" (in no way shape or form did they get rid of it, though. I'm on my third play-through of the single player campaign and I have found a new way to go around/get to guys each time) because Sam was not the same "Splinter Cell" as he was in old games. He's older, he was focused more on revenge, there was a heavy emphasis on his anger. Story-wise, having Fisher be more forceful was the perfect choice. The need to hack multiple computers per level, pick locks, etc. were omitted from the game because they did not fit the story.

-I don't really know what else you wanted along the "complexity" of the level design. Don't really know what you mean by that. Did you want it to be harder and more complex simply just to make them more complex? I can't think of one level design that didn't make sense for that level.

It seems to me that you just didn't like the story as much, and that's fine, but to not realize that some of the things you mentioned were taken out simply because they didn't fit the storyline of Conviction (which it seems, maybe you do realize that and I just missed it in your posts) seems off when it seems like you usually pay close attention to stuff like that.

I loved the game, I've made that clear, and disagree with most of your points for the reasons stated above.

[Tiko7523]

Re: Splinter Cell Conviction (360 & PC)

I just beat the game and honestly wasnt impressed by all the hype and time it took to make this game.

the cutscenes were MEH at best

the graphics were good nothing great.

the game to me felt like batman/hitman.....

i liked the game as far as gameplay and soundtrack which was awesome.... i still rate it about a 7/10 to 8/10 but i was hoping for a MUCH better game imo was too hyped and did not deliver/ it was far too short also.

[allBthere]

Re: Splinter Cell Conviction (360 & PC)

The simple answer is: The story they went with for this game did not need any of those things you asked for -

-There were no plethora of the gadgets, sans the throwable ones, because Fisher was not working with Third Echelon anymore, therefore he didn't have access to the night vision or thermal goggles, and you get the Sonar ones (which, in my opinion, are better) when it is relevant in the story.

-You can peek under doors in this one, so I really don't see how opening the door a crack to peek is any better than that. It actually makes more sense for a guy with Sam's training to use a broken mirror or the tool Grimm gives him to look under the door instead of opening it up a crack

-They reduced the level of "infiltration" (in no way shape or form did they get rid of it, though. I'm on my third play-through of the single player campaign and I have found a new way to go around/get to guys each time) because Sam was not the same "Splinter Cell" as he was in old games. He's older, he was focused more on revenge, there was a heavy emphasis on his anger. Story-wise, having Fisher be more forceful was the perfect choice. The need to hack multiple computers per level, pick locks, etc. were omitted from the game because they did not fit the story.

-I don't really know what else you wanted along the "complexity" of the level design. Don't really know what you mean by that. Did you want it to be harder and more complex simply just to make them more complex? I can't think of one level design that didn't make sense for that level.

It seems to me that you just didn't like the story as much, and that's fine, but to not realize that some of the things you mentioned were taken out simply because they didn't fit the storyline of Conviction (which it seems, maybe you do realize that and I just missed it in your posts) seems off when it seems like you usually pay close attention to stuff like that.

I loved the game, I've made that clear, and disagree with most of your points for the reasons stated above.

first a little nit pick - opening doors a crack PLUS using the snake cam - I just pointed that out to show the level of options. As in they've taken out many things that the older games had. I agree it's not something that makes tons of sense and I'm starting to second guess if that was in at all - so I'll change it to moving bodies into shadows - something that should have been in this game and was in the old ones - imo of course.

Now, I fully get the reasons why many of the elements were out because of the story. I was basically saying that the game left me wanting for a different game (old-school SC). Not that they should have crammed in all that crap anyway and contradict itself. If it takes a different story to get what i want, then I'd rather a different story.

however, even the story was probably influenced by the current trend of making every thing more accessible. The poster above pointed this out too. I think my somewhat disappointment is a direct result of me loving the first game - the new one isn't "splinter cell-ish" enough for me personally. It's still a fine game and I'm certainly not trying to convince anyone not to like it, just expressing my thoughts upon comparison with the old games.

oops...forgot about the whole complexity thing. This is hard to explain

so here's a video lol

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this was a speed and crap resolution run so you miss a lot of detail - but look at the sheer distance he covers. Look how multiple lines/pipes climbing were used to actually get to new places. He was in a police station, but also on streets and in houses/buildings gathering important intel. Unfortunately the vid doesn't show what it's like for a first time play through where you have to look around for all the right doors and get in different vents because you're worried a bad guy is going to get you. I was wrong earlier I mixed up the first mission for something else. It's just not remotely the same anymore, and unlike hillary goldstein, not only can I go back, but would rather go back.

I encourage you to look at the other ones too...they are all like that or better. In fact it makes me want to go buy the game.

here's a better video actually - they're all cool really. The guy didn't do mission 6 though (cool one I mentioned where you go from car park - to japanese business building) ...and the only youtube vid of that is some ******* talking all the way through
<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/aUXBOA98GE8&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/aUXBOA98GE8&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

[Pokes]

Re: Splinter Cell Conviction (360 &amp; PC)

^^ You make me want to be an original xbox just so I can play these again.